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I also agree with Terry W. Keep them. You can't get cars much smaller. And don't worry about the diesel engine. Diesel taxi drivers do most of their mileage as short runs in towns. If it gets an occasional long run it'll be fine. Same for rear drum brakes - not a problem. The ones on our family Mk 1 Focus (also getting rusty) have needed attention only once - after well over 100,000 miles.
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Thank you, gentlemen!
Since the question of finance was raised - Civic was a cash purchase, Golf cash plus personal loan from bank for purposes of liquidity, nearly paid off. So a lot of cash tied up.
badbusdriver – good to hear mine is the better long-term prospect of the two! I love the thought of the Civic going till the end of time – visions of it soldiering on as the four horsemen of the apocalypse wreak havoc around us! And thank you for your helpful comments on my list of possibles, think the Ignis would be my first choice for all-round usefulness with a bit of character.
Since my dearly beloved had a couple of days off, I took him off to our nearest car supermarket (Available Car in Leeds) for a spot of browsing (masks and gloves on, I hasten to add). Not that we’d buy there – a lot of the stock was tired, bought in from BCA all over the country, and had been sitting around for ages, effects of lockdown I suppose.
Looked at the Fiat 500 first – felt comfortable for two people but DB not that keen after all and I laughed out loud at the dinky little flap of a parcel shelf!
Arona – my impressions were seems rather expensive for what it is, not convinced by it somehow. Though now I am reassured on the question of drum brakes on rear, lower trims would make it a more reasonable purchase.
Yaris hybrid (current model) – think I like the looks because it is slightly like the GR version! A perfect fit for me in terms of driving position, seat comfort etc, and an air of quality about it. However, DB’s head was almost brushing the roof, he’s 5’10 and quite tall in the upper body so you’re right about the cabin space.
Suggested a VW Up! – DB looked ok in it, seemed to quite like it – but would have to be a three door, five doors apparently look a bit “old lady”. Was quite surprised by the interior spaciousness.
He then picked out a Peugeot 108 – they don’t seem to wear very well, and tail gate felt flimsy. That said, my sister bought a 107 last year (private sale, immaculately kept) as a runabout and she’s put a fair few miles on it – believe it has a Toyota engine?
John F – thank you, yes keeping both could be the way to go, apart from the fact I don’t much like the Golf for comfort reasons mainly. So glad to hear your Mk1 Focus is still going strong – I miss mine for its sprightly drive. Unfortunately mine had had three lots of welding repairs to the sills and latterly the brakes were a cause for concern, think front discs had become warped, so judged it time to call it a day given the string of advisories on last MOT. I see they’re now listed as a classic on HJ!
SLO76 – you bad man, tempting me with those lovely cars! I had originally added the Up! GTI and the Swift Sport to the list but deleted them as being too frivolous, skinny tyres etc. but maybe not….. I’d love that Fiesta – DB would probably think a bit too boy racer (but it definitely isn’t “old lady”!). Out of interest, is the 1.6 Ecoboost engine a more reliable prospect than the 1.0?
MX-5 – ah. My sister bought one about 10 years ago, paid about a grand and kept it for a year until it developed some engine sensor problem and flogged it on Ebay for £500. She let me have a couple of goes in it, great fun. DB has sometimes said he’ll get one when he retires, but that’s a way off, the looming ban on new ICE cars is always at the back of one’s mind, and you only live once. Trouble is, though, these sweet cars should really be garaged, particularly a soft top, and our garage is small and full of the usual house and garden clutter.
If it was entirely up to me, I’d sell the Golf, buy a cheaper runabout and put the remainder aside towards a future more special car.
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And thank you for your helpful comments on my list of possibles, think the Ignis would be my first choice for all-round usefulness with a bit of character.
Not that I am trying to push it(!), just wanted to point out that the Ignis, in all but the basic version, has two individually sliding rear seats. With the seats slid right back, there is ample room for two adults of 6'+, and even like this, the boot is of an entirely acceptable size. The rear seats can be slid forward from levers on the top of the back rests, so this can be done easily from the boot (as well as on the rear seat base). I haven't measured it, but at a guess I'd say there is about 20cm between the furthest forward and furthest back position. The version we have has the AGS automated manual gearbox, definitely the weakest point of the car being cumbersome, slow and dim witted. Current Ignis auto's use a CVT, which, were you to choose auto, are much better.
He then picked out a Peugeot 108 – they don’t seem to wear very well, and tail gate felt flimsy. That said, my sister bought a 107 last year (private sale, immaculately kept) as a runabout and she’s put a fair few miles on it – believe it has a Toyota engine?
The Peugeot 108 (previously the 107) is one of three cars using the same platform, the other two being the Citroen C1 and Toyota Aygo. The tailgate is just a glass panel, it was designed this way (along with other aspects of the cars) specifically to be cheaper to repair in the event of a minor prang. Strictly speaking, the engine (a 1.0) is actually a Daihatsu unit, though Toyota have had a controlling stake in Daihatsu since 1998 and have owned the company outright since 2016. The Peugeot and Citroen were both available for a while with a 1.2 which was a PSA (Peugeot/Citroen, now Stellantis) unit. But they are simple cars and, apart from the gear change on earlier versions being a bit stiff, pretty reliable. Put it like this, I'd have much more confidence in the reliability of one of these than a Fiat 500. Especially so with the Aygo, and while the 'X' face of the current car isn't everyones cup of tea, I have a customer who has one in bright orange and I think it looks fantastic!.
Out of interest, is the 1.6 Ecoboost engine a more reliable prospect than the 1.0?
The 1.6 Ecoboost is fine
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“ Out of interest, is the 1.6 Ecoboost engine a more reliable prospect than the 1.0?”
Vastly so. It is based on the very well regarded Yamaha design Ford used for many years but with a nice big turbo tacked on for added entertainment. The later 1.5 is an enlarged version of Fords own 3cyl 1.0 Ecoboom motor and I’m yet to be convinced that they’ve fixed the thing. An ST Fiesta is a truly joyous thing to pilot down a twisting B road, I highly recommend buying such a thing before our leaders suck any joy from motoring. Keep it nice, keep it standard and maintain a full Ford service record and it’ll hold its value better than almost any other supermini. In fact, keep it long enough and it’ll go up in value as with all old fast Fords.
Edited by SLO76 on 15/07/2021 at 22:42
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“ MX-5 – ah. My sister bought one about 10 years ago, paid about a grand and kept it for a year until it developed some engine sensor problem and flogged it on Ebay for £500. She let me have a couple of goes in it, great fun. DB has sometimes said he’ll get one when he retires, but that’s a way off, the looming ban on new ICE cars is always at the back of one’s mind, and you only live once. Trouble is, though, these sweet cars should really be garaged, particularly a soft top, and our garage is small and full of the usual house and garden clutter.”
No need to disturb the garage clutter, buy a hard top version. These are one of those models every petrol head should own at some point. They’re a true joy to drive and quite cheap to own if bought well. I paid £1475 for Mk II 1.8, ran it for two years and sold it to a local for £1600. It cost £300-£400 in repairs (window regulators) but was utterly reliable and very cheap transport. A good Mk III can be had for £5-£6k.
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Apologies for the late response. We’ve not really moved forward with this but my dearly beloved seems quite happy in principle to part with the Golf, hasn’t really bonded with it. Meanwhile the Civic has been for MOT and service - oil and filter, air filter, pollen filter, wheel alignment check (offside front slightly out), brake fluid change), and new tyres – garage pronounced the car to be in very good condition. Quite a lot to spend but car feels a lot nicer on fresh tyres (Nexen), the original Bridgestone Turanzas were very stiff and crashy and starting to crack.
“. …Especially so with the Aygo, and while the 'X' face of the current car isn't everyones cup of tea, I have a customer who has one in bright orange and I think it looks fantastic!. “
badbusdriver, that would be the x-cite Mandarin Special Edition? Yes, it does look rather fantastic…I saw a yellow one yesterday, looks like a slightly cross bumblebee. The Ignis sounds a highly practical car – I think suitable for our current needs though my dearly beloved is more drawn to the Swift. Your comments on the design of the Peugeot 108/Aygo/C1 trio are very helpful, thank you. Have been looking again at the previous model Yaris and agree a more practical shape – was sat next to one in a motorway queue last week, two adults in the front looking perfectly comfortable. The protruding wheel arches on the new model perhaps a bit of a liability in tight spaces and lacking interior spaciousness.
“No need to disturb the garage clutter, buy a hard top version. These are one of those models every petrol head should own at some point. They’re a true joy to drive and quite cheap to own if bought well. I paid £1475 for Mk II 1.8, ran it for two years and sold it to a local for £1600. It cost £300-£400 in repairs (window regulators) but was utterly reliable and very cheap transport. A good Mk III can be had for £5-£6k”
SLO76 - Prices do vary widely for these (was in production for a long time after all) – not quite sure where to start if MX-5 ownership is tempting for my dearly beloved. He’s a naturally cautious type and our sum total of buying cars in the last 20 years is two used and two new, the rest being DB’s company cars.
Have thought of a couple of alternatives with a little more pep and reasonable practicality for less money:
Previous model Suzuki Swift Sport - local Suzuki dealership in Leeds has one in stock. Daft idea or not
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107215294981
VW Up! 1.0 tsi 90PS
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106244171881
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106113725038
though the state of the front seats is a little off-putting!
Might also look at a Seat Mii 75PS, very neat design
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105263126466
TinaS
Edited by TinaS on 06/08/2021 at 15:51
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Don't know if it is my computer, but all those links are taking me to the Up(?). The seats do look a bit grubby, though with regards to the car itself, the 90PS Up is a cracking little thing. That engine would give it a decent turn of speed too.
As I said, can't look at the others (yet), but a general opinion.
All petrol Swift's are very reliable, and that includes the Sport. Just make sure it hasn't been thrashed to within an inch of its life by a previous owner!. Look for evidence of bodywork repairs, check the tyres for both tread depth and uneven wear, check the wheels for kerbing damage, that sort of thing. Look at the reviews for the dealer too.
The Mii, as you know, is basically an Up with a different badge, so the same applies. The only one I'd avoid would be the basic 60PS engine, which would probably be hard work on the main road, especially if you need to overtake. But the 75PS version should be OK, no rocket ship, but acceptable.
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“ SLO76 - Prices do vary widely for these (was in production for a long time after all) – not quite sure where to start if MX-5 ownership is tempting for my dearly beloved. He’s a naturally cautious type and our sum total of buying cars in the last 20 years is two used and two new, the rest being DB’s company cars.”
Nothing to fear from a good MX5, they’re very reliable and also great fun. If I were looking for a second car on a budget and had no requirement for rear seats I’d have a nice Mk III or Mk IV tomorrow.
That Swift comes a close second though. It’s a bit dear but Sports are quite hard to find and well worth paying a bit more for, it’s a hoot to drive.
Edited by SLO76 on 06/08/2021 at 16:51
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SLO76, your influence has prevailed!
Many months on…. The decision has finally been reached to replace the Golf with a Swift Sport 1.4 Boosterjet! What a palaver – I totally understand DB’s reluctance to part with a car bought on a never to be repeated pre-registered deal which will see him getting all his money back when he sells it but just a shame it’s a diesel which is not being used for its intended purpose. Highly unlikely he will ever need to do a long commute again, remote working now the norm for him.
We test drove:
Swift Sport 1.4 Boosterjet - First impressions were ok, very civilised car. Just the price gave pause for thought and wanted to compare to other options.
Aygo – We liked it a lot, cheerful little car with some character and blissfully uncomplicated. Totally unpretentious, classless and ageless, would fit in anywhere.
Kia Picanto T-GDi GT Line S. Quite quick, very good in-gear acceleration but not a car we found particularly comfortable, a bit hard and noisy, I didn’t like the engine sound. Tires were a bit over inflated to be fair - asked salesman and he admitted they tended to keep them well pumped up as the TPMS was a bit sensitive. Very competent and punchy little car, though. Seems great value for money.
Swift Sport again – I found a good one, bright yellow at Suzuki dealership, 69 plate with one owner, 7k miles and suggested a re-visit. Better test drive on familiar roads. Liked it a lot better this time. DB wanted to think about it over Christmas, but this one sold.
Meanwhile Golf went in for second service at dealers last month. £250 for basically an oil change – and sir’s tires are down to 4mm would he like us to change them (after 8.5k miles?). Declined their kind offer. Checked tire pressure a few days later when re-fuelling – they’d been left at 4 psi below the recommended! And car was returned to him hastily washed with mucky smears down the sides. Bah!
Spring being on the way, back to car search.
Seat Arona. Since was on the original list thought we should try. Nothing wrong with it particularly, just bored with it after about 3 minutes, felt much like the Golf to me and another engine sound I wasn’t fond of (think I don’t like the sound of turbo assisted 3 cylinder engines, the non–assisted one in the Aygo was fine).
Suggested a visit to Suzuki dealership down the road (knew they had a Vitara 1.4 Boosterjet in stock) for a comparison. Interesting to drive a Vitara with this engine – we both liked it, altogether a much more responsive and willing car, would be easy to live with. Lovely salesman – had a good chat and he knew exactly where I was coming from when I said since we had a Civic for long distance, luggage hauling etc perhaps a smaller fun car as a second motor? Only had in stock a newer mild hybrid version of the Swift Sport unfortunately, more than we want to spend on such a little car (when one could have a quite new Vitara for similar money).
So DB has decided that the Swift Sport is the car – we are going to look at one this weekend in Lincolnshire at used car outlet attached to Ford/Peugeot/Vauxhall dealership – can’t link to ad as we’ve reserved the car. Looks good on paper – 69 plate, 7.7k miles, has had two month check, first and second services at Suzuki dealership and it’s yellow, sir’s preferred colour – it is currently the nicest example on offer within a reasonable distance.
My only concern is that they’ve had it in stock since October so it’s been sitting around through winter and Boston is not far from the sea. Any thoughts on this?
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It wouldn't bother me, Boston is inland about six miles. Cars don't rust like they did years ago. If it's been stored then I would be more concerned about brake disks getting rusty or stuck irrespective of where it's been parked but the garage should be checking these things over.
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Good choice, I’d love a wee Swift Sport and yellow does suit its fun nature very well indeed. I wouldn’t be concerned about a car that had sat a few months as long as it’s presented properly and has a full service record.
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Thank you, gentlemen. Went to see the Swift Sport yesterday – a textbook example of why a test drive is necessary.
Didn’t look good from the off. Front and rear tyres didn’t match, the correct Continental Sport Contact on the rear, Hankook Ventus on the front, all looked in decent condition though, no signs of uneven wear. Paint wasn’t great, looked as though it had been through an automatic car wash a few too many times, a few minor chips (gather Suzuki paint is a bit prone). Salesman pointed out another chip on the bonnet, said would be rectified if we purchased the car. Told us he had driven the car the day before, brakes were fine.
I drove first while DB looked through the paperwork. Reminded me of something – a Peugeot 307 I hired once on holiday in France, with the steering which wandered to the left. Much the same on this Swift only more pronounced. DB read through the vehicle health checks carried out at each service: at first service all tyres were matching with normal wear for the mileage; at second service different front tyres were noted with one being flagged up with an amber warning for uneven wear almost down to the cords. Car was part exchanged a month later so those front tyres were fresh. “Swift” end to test drive.
Salesman went distinctly pink when we told him, went off to arrange refund of our reservation deposit. Came back having spoken to the manager - would we like to go out again with him in the car, might have been the road camber or the wind blowing us about? (It was a fine sunny day with a pleasant breeze).
Smiled sweetly and departed in the Golf. Took hands away from steering wheel a few times on same stretch of road – straight as an arrow.
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Thank you, gentlemen. Went to see the Swift Sport yesterday – a textbook example of why a test drive is necessary.
Didn’t look good from the off. Front and rear tyres didn’t match, the correct Continental Sport Contact on the rear, Hankook Ventus on the front, all looked in decent condition though, no signs of uneven wear. Paint wasn’t great, looked as though it had been through an automatic car wash a few too many times, a few minor chips (gather Suzuki paint is a bit prone). Salesman pointed out another chip on the bonnet, said would be rectified if we purchased the car. Told us he had driven the car the day before, brakes were fine.
I drove first while DB looked through the paperwork. Reminded me of something – a Peugeot 307 I hired once on holiday in France, with the steering which wandered to the left. Much the same on this Swift only more pronounced. DB read through the vehicle health checks carried out at each service: at first service all tyres were matching with normal wear for the mileage; at second service different front tyres were noted with one being flagged up with an amber warning for uneven wear almost down to the cords. Car was part exchanged a month later so those front tyres were fresh. “Swift” end to test drive.
Salesman went distinctly pink when we told him, went off to arrange refund of our reservation deposit. Came back having spoken to the manager - would we like to go out again with him in the car, might have been the road camber or the wind blowing us about? (It was a fine sunny day with a pleasant breeze).
Smiled sweetly and departed in the Golf. Took hands away from steering wheel a few times on same stretch of road – straight as an arrow.
I'm not trying to make excuse here or to try and make you change your mind, but you do need to bear in mind that a car like the Suzuki is not going to drive like your Golf. The Swift Sport is a junior hot hatch, it is light and agile, so its steering is going to be affected by the camber more than a diesel Golf designed to be comfortable pounding the motorways with smooth stability.
The Swift Sport is a very light car for what it is, nearly 100kg lighter than the VW Up GTI which is a smaller car with a smaller engine. Apart from just clever engineering, a couple of ways Suzuki achieve this lack of mass is by using less sound deadening (which is pretty heavy stuff) resulting in less refinement than you'd get in some rivals, and less paint which results in being prone to stone chips. Sticking with the paint, unless any scratching has actually gone through it, the paint appearance can be brought back and then protected (as much as is possible) from further deterioration with decent quality valeting products.
Re tyre wear, getting it checked properly would almost certainly reveal the alignment being out of whack. This could be due to a variety of possibilities, most likely a kerbing incident, but in most cases this will be fixable with some adjustment.
But if you want a car which drives like your Golf, you may aswell just keep the Golf.
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<< Re tyre wear, getting it checked properly would almost certainly reveal the alignment being out of whack. This could be due to a variety of possibilities, most likely a kerbing incident, but in most cases this will be fixable with some adjustment. >>
Regarding the state of the wheels, as the car has been at a Suzuki dealer for some while, it's not impossible that wheels have been swapped around among their stock in that time ? Does sound a bit as if that example has led a mixed life - perhaps even been straightened out after a mishap. Nearly-new cars are usually worth rescuing after (possibly quite serious) damage.
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it's not impossible that wheels have been swapped around among their stock in that time ?
That is true. But it is also possible that any tracking or alignment issues have been rectified by the previous owner before buying new tyres. It may just be coincidence that the car was traded in a month later.
Unless there is actual damage to suspension components/wheels/tyres, sorting the tracking/alignment is not a big or expensive job.
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Sounds like a wrong un to me, you where right to walk away, I've had a swift ( last generation) and it drove wonderfully, no wandering etc and had far more grip than I had talent! I'm currently enjoying a vitara hybrid, drives just like a bigger swift...maybe worth a look?
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Well, I’m here to learn.
BBD, thank you for your explanation regarding the characteristics of different cars for different purposes. I hope you don’t think I was making an unfavourable comparison of the Swift to the Golf (I feel that Suzuki make honest cars, which is more than can be said for VW!) just saying that the pull to the left in that Swift was really quite strong. It could be the case that Lincolnshire roads are built differently, influencing the feel of the car.
We do appreciate that the SSS is a very different car. This was our third time driving one and we like it more and more, we don’t find it noisy or unrefined, we enjoy the sounds it makes – the little car has got under our skins a bit. I’m delighted that my DB is open to letting his hair down – he’s a better driver than he gives himself credit for. The two examples we previously drove (and the second drive was a good one on familiar roads) showed no signs of wandering about. Should have snapped up the second one, benefit of hindsight. Somebody else did, pretty smartly.
As to the paint, hadn’t thought about it adding so much weight. Had already realised that the Swift would take a bit more looking after (particularly that solid yellow paint) – have been perusing the Bilt Hamber website with interest and considering opening an account with Chips Away (though I daresay we could learn to touch in minor damage)!
Andrew-T – well, the front wheels looked immaculate so could well have been replacements. Just felt it odd that the car had had three sets of front tyres in under 8k miles, the uneven wear to the second set of front tyres noted at the second service suggests that the car had been a driven a while with an alignment issue which could have been causing extra wear and tear/damage to various components. Perhaps not expensive to fix (I had a wheel alignment check on my car last year, offside front was found to be fractionally out - total cost £80). Worth rescuing maybe but only for someone with the right level of knowledge and at the right price – this car was not particularly competitively priced to begin with.
Paul 1963 – thank you, that was our conclusion. We did try a Vitara with the same engine, driven back-to-back with a Seat Arona – preferred the Vitara, much neater handling and very responsive, lovely car. Still hankering after the little Swift though – just might not be a yellow one!
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... the uneven wear to the second set of front tyres noted at the second service suggests that the car had been a driven a while with an alignment issue which could have been causing extra wear and tear/damage to various components.
If you come across a young car with noticeable alignment problems, you should either suspect it has been in an accident, or the mileage may be dodgy ?
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Am happy to report that there is now a yellow Swift Sport parked outside. 69 plate, 11k miles, one owner who has obviously cared for the car, the paintwork is immaculate. Dealer (Suzuki franchise) took it in part ex (for a new Swift Sport) only three weeks ago, car has been serviced by them all along. Drives beautifully, no wandering about. Drove home from Chesterfield via the M1, car felt fine on the motorway. Versatile little car – can be driven sedately, burbling along, or goes when you want it to. DB reports that it will take him a while to become accustomed to driving something so light after 20 years of diesel cars! He’s doing a fine job so far.
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Sounds like you've got a great car. I don't understand why someone would get rid of a car with on 11k miles but it's to other people's advantage so mustn't complain :-) It will hopefully do many reliable miles.
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>>I don't understand why someone would get rid of a car with on 11k miles
Small car on 3 year PCP/Lease - made last payment and offered a premium trade-in figure (compared to the guaranteed price on the PCP deal) for a low mileage /well looked after car.
Probably paying less on the new car than they were paying in the last 3 years,
Car prices have gone haywire in the last couple of years!
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Sounds like you've got a great car. I don't understand why someone would get rid of a car with on 11k miles but it's to other people's advantage so mustn't complain :-) It will hopefully do many reliable miles.
With Covid lockdown restrictions, many cars have done low mileages in the last three years.
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