I come from southern England and just experienced something that?s really wound me up.
About 2 months ago I had my car parked in front of a friend?s car out side my mum and dads house. To give a vague idea, its a long street with speed humps, residents cars parked up both sides with a road that?s on a hill which joins in the middle. Imagine a 'T'. Anyway whilst in my m&d's we heard a huge bang, minutes later a neighbour knocked at the door to say my car had been hit. It turned out that a joy rider had sped down the hill into the other street & ploughed a car into the side of my friend?s car parked behind mine. But just scratching & removing some of the paint from my rear bumper (Luck hey).
The police were called and there was witnesses who saw who was driving and what happened and could name the driver & where he lived. The joy riders had driven on after the crash and then dumped the car half a mile down the road, nearly killing children in the process. I believe fingerprints were taken and they knew from that who it was.
But with all this evidence they claim they do not have enough 'evidence' to charge and have as we just learned 'closed the case'. But then they are extremely quick off the mark to dish out petty speeding fines without a second thought. Not that I agree with speeding of course, but some situations are ridicules.
I was just interested to here others views on this and weather any of you may of experienced similar things with car crime and lack of response. Or weather it?s just my town.
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No it's not just your town. Police were not interested in £400 worth of criminal damage to my patio window caused by a kid with a "BB" gun. Try making a complaint in writing to the chief constable and your local council representative. Local media might also be interested.
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No it's not just your town. Police were not interested in £400 worth of criminal damage to my patio window caused by a kid with a "BB" gun. Try making a complaint in writing to the chief constable and your local council representative. Local media might also be interested.
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Oh dear hear I go again.
Did you hear the alleged witness or did he say to you direct that he knew and could name the driver or is this information hearsay i.e. what you heard someone else say?
Is this person a credible witness?
Fingerprinting would be routine I would have thought but did you hear the SOCO (Scenes of Crime Officer) say from these he knew who these were from?
Did he in fact lift enough for a comparison to satisfy the Court?
If chummy was interviewed what was his tale? Consider Ade in Coronation Street currently being trotted out i.e. had access to car therefore prints would be on it.
Was it the Police who said not enough evidence or C.P.S. who decide (not the Police)to prosecute?
We all hear bits of information which we take as gospel and which on close examination bear no resemblence to the truth. Nevertheless rhino skinned Plod has to take the flack. Not saying at times he doesn't deserve it but does get lumbered through lack of knowledge of ALL the circumstances of an incident.
DvD
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NO, it is definitely not "Just your town"
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>>But with all this evidence they claim they do not have
>>enough 'evidence' to charge and have as we just
>>learned 'closed the case'. But then they are extremely quick
>>off the mark to dish out petty speeding fines without a second
>>thought.
Well, quite clearly they have all the 'evidence' they need and could prosecute at any time. They can prove beyond anybody's doubt who did what to whom, when and why.
They are obviously not prosecuting just to annoy you.
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Mark, can we set up a 'Pop at the OLd Bill' forum that the rest of us can ignore?
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The police are damned if they do and damned if they don't ! Often they get the blame for what the CPS does/doesn't do and there's often a very good (if not properly explained) reason. We might think we know who was responsible but can it be proved ? That's often the main problem and I agree that it's very, very annoying.
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"The police are damned if they do and damned if they don't ! Often they get the blame for what the CPS does/doesn't do and there's often a very good (if not properly explained) reason"
Hmm see the Burrell case.
Often a case of setting priorities IF police forces are so stretched.
But crimes not prosecuted end in contempt for the law..(see the DT writer who gave his local police all evidence of theft incl cameras etc and they did nothing).
Personally my view is that the only way to reduce all speeding/car related crime is to persecute them all...
madf
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"Mark, can we set up a 'Pop at the OLd Bill' forum that the rest of us can ignore?"
The rest of us being.......?
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I have a certain interest in Car Crime (not connected to my day job)n and would put a perspective on this. BCUs or Divisions have to set crime targets now, these are linked to but not the same as Force Targets and are designated to reflect local problems. These targets then become performance indicators for both the BCU and Force and are in turn scrutinized by Blunkett and his mob. The threat being that any BCU that is "failing" is subject to being taken over in very much the smae model as Blunkett had for failing schools. I would suggest that car crime is an objective in most if not all the BCUs in E&W. So any BCU that fails to detect and/or reduce car crime to a certain standard is asking for trouble. So the argument about the Police not being interested does not wash. On the (very) basic facts given in the original post I would have to agree with DVD that the investigation failed at some point. 1. The Prints did not match the name given 2. The name given did not cough it 3. The CPS kicked out the case either when it reached them initially or when the thief went not guilty or 5. It was kicked out by the bench in trial.
Fingerprints are not infallible evidentially. First of all they have to reach a certain standard before they can be used in evidence and as in the Corri case legitimate access has to be ruled out. I have seen many cases where the Police have prints from a scene that were not admissable in evidence which in all other ways prove the offender's guilt.
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PU
>>I have a certain interest in Car Crime (not connected to my day job)<<
Now I am getting worried about the Legal Profession. I thought face blackened at night jobs went out with the suss law under the Vagrancy Act.
DvD
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My secret is out. Stripey jumper in the wash
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The Police do NOT have Targets, or so I am informed. They are Performance Indicators which are an entirely different thing! Whatever, 10 speeding motorists caught automatically by a machine are easier, and look better for a clear up rate, than your house being trashed and your valuables stolen and the man hours put into not clearing it up. I am NOT against the police, they are short of money and are given things to do that please their masters and do not satisfy the public.
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Me for one.....
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Yeah, there are two witnesses who saw exactly who the driver was and both named him. We then done a bit of our own investigating and found out where he lived (for when we jump him 1 night). The two neighbours who saw him said that it wasn't the 1st time they had nicked a car then joyrides it round causing havoc, & had crossings with the police. I do feel that very little has been done to nail this skagghead, when clearly they could if they really wanted to. Maybe it would b better if he was to pull a gun out next time.
It just amazes me that this sort of crime just gets completely swept under the carpet. I'm beginning to doubt having a nice car because of the amount of numbskulls that persist on spoiling it.
I'm not intending this to become a 'slag off the pigs' discussion, I'm just interested in others thoughts & advice on the situation or other experiences. Most of which has made me re-evaluate it.
That's sound advice Godfrey on contacting my council rep & local paper, cheers. I will do so.
That?s a good point on the prints, and answering a previous post it was the police who closed the case.
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Fester
Obviously I do not have all the why's and wherefores hence my original post.But if things as you state then more advice.
I know it must grate but not wise to extract revenge as you mention.
Go along to your local nick and have a (controlled) word with someone in authority and you may find out just why no action was taken.
DVD
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.....Go along to your local nick and have a (controlled) word with someone in authority and you may find out just why no action was taken.
This is good advice and may resolve a possible breakdown in communication rather than a case of disinterested police.
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Let's be honest. Plod isnt concerned about 'car crime' unless the vehicle was used to carry out some other crime ie armed robbery etc.
They just don't give a dámn about damage to or theft from cars because they don't get the brownie points required for promotion. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly deluded.
Next time a parliamentary candidate comes knocking on my door, the priorities and usefulness of the police will be at the top of my questions.
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What do they get brownie points for then ?
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Uncaring cops. Hmm, interesting theory given they are subjected to this day in and out. Reality check on this one, methinks.
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Nah, the jumping business was purely a joke. Well it just put a smile on my face.
I will consider popping along and asking a few of these questions that I've had suggested to me. Or it will probably have to be a phone call as my police station's only member of staff is usually a receptionist.
I'm beginning to agree with that Watcher, well in my area anyway. Doesn't count for all of course.
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if you really want to see an inspector or above
go along in the hours in the middle of the day when our largest police stations seem to remain open to the public (its so nice of them to keep the doors locked when most crime takes place, we wouldnt want the public reporting any would we)
at the desk, demand to make a formal complaint
this HAS to be taken by an inspector or above, and likey as not he will come down and try and talk you into not making a complaint
many inspectors spend most of their day with the public trying to divert complaints, they aint figured that sorting out the poor service would be a better strategy
put you concerns to mr inspector
you will at least get to hear his response
btw the formal complaint is a waste of time, and if you really want to make one want just write direct to chief constable cc police complaints authority cc your mp cc the press
hope this helps
sad state of affairs, and doesnt reflect well on the hard working bobbys at the coal face
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Crazed,
Society gets the Police it deserves.
I think I am beginning to understand.
DvD
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May l just add that the actions of police; seemingly ignoring crimes that although serious to the victim aren't THAT serious and probably too much hassle for the police to bother following up is due to the statistics and performance indicators todays society/government is so keen on measuring everything by.
Basically unless you expressly say l want you to record this crime and l want you to pursue it, it wont even BE recorded and therefore cannot damage the clearup rate that now determines 'how well cops are doing'.
Think how pointless the school tables are. "Oh funny that, Chatterly elite school for the daughters of rich geniuses comes way above the Manchester school for crack children of the terminally lost cause comprehensive....must be the teaching at fault.." ad neuseam.
As crazed said really.
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dan said "May l just add that the actions of police; seemingly ignoring crimes that although serious to the victim aren't THAT serious and probably too much hassle for the police to bother following up is due to the statistics and performance indicators todays society/government is so keen on measuring everything "
oh so the Government have targets for " jailing royal butlers who are alleged to steal their employer's possessions" ? :-)
Wonder how many of those there are. :-)
madf
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Oh didn't you know that this was the one and only Court case runing in the UK this last week - that was why it made the press.
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madf, (and pugugly) what relevance has that court case got to what l said?
In any case that was high profile in every respect and therefore would get understandably more attention.
BTW and your jobs are...?
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Dan
1. None - I was being sarcastic towards madf
2. A solicitor.
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Join the Freemasons. Then see how fast the police can act.
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Reading the latest comments by various Justices that we need to send fewer people to jail co they are all full suggests :
that the police will be even less keen to chase cases - if the CPS will not prosecute on the grounds that the sentence will be reduced to virtually nil.
I think if I worked for the police I would be confused and very annoyed that their political masters cannot sort out priorities.
Easy to blame police.. if their priorities are set by muppets who change the goalposts every 6 months, what can we expect?
Answer: what we get.. motivated criminals. Crime does pay.
madf
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The involvement of the Crown Prosecution Service does not help either.
Instead of being able to go to court and present a case from their own notes, the arresting officer has to prepare a file to go to the CPS who then decides whether to commit for trial.
That all takes time.
The CPS decides not to proceed with quite a lot of cases.
The police time in preparing the file is then wasted.
Many local courts have been closed so police and witnesses waste time travelling.
Bad court orgaisation means that police hang around waiting for the case to be called.
So a single arrest for a "simple" offence can take an officer off the streets for a couple of days.
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RE
"Crazed,
Society gets the Police it deserves.
I think I am beginning to understand.
DvD"
Yes and the police get the reaction from the ordinary hardworking public they deserve
when you intervene to stop thugs, have threats made against your life, have your car nicked by the same thugs the same night
and the local police tell you "sorry their fathers are the local big time criminals we have to be very sensitive how we handle them" you can understand why an ordinary tax paying member of the public gets upset with them, and stands at the front desk demanding to see an inspector
and when they find your car, tow it away for finger printing, and then demand money for the "towing charge", and you get the car back with a parking ticket in place (who lets these idiots put tickets on stolen cars - dont they check!)
etc etc
It always makes me chuckle when an off duty copper in a strange town needs to ring 999 and sees how poor the response is...
sadly the worst police stations arent shut down, if they were private businesses they wouldnt make money and market forces would shut them - as it is all we can do is lobby for improvements
the good guys should all be on the same side, just the police dont always act like it
comments from coppers welcome
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Well put Crazed!
The police station (if u can call it that) in my town is virtually non exsistant. You phone for assistance and you get put through to another station an hr away. They then log yr call etc...then contact the station in my town. Then you wait, and wait, and wait till an officer turns up and you usually have to phone up again in between. By the time they get there its to late and they might as well forget it. I'd hate to think what would happen if there was a crazed gunman on the loose.
I once spoke to a copper who I know and he was saying that more often than not they wouldn't bother with alot of crimes because it wouldn't be worth the paper work. So things like parking/driving offences and alot of call-outs wouldn't get a second look.
Ere & get this, I drove past a copper parked on double yellow lines & in front of trafic lights earlier, to pick up another copper who was getting some grub. I had pleasure in shaking my head at her as I went past.
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There was a motorway volvo tuesday night parked on a slip road with no blues in thick rain. I saw just about saw him but some old codger would have been straight into him.
Being a volvo I'm assumin gthis was a class one driver... Still at least he didn't dazzle anyone with his blues...
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Parked my car today and walked to the station (quarter of a mile) and in my Meldrewish manner counted the untaxed cars en route. There were three. Got back 5 hours later and walked back and 2 of them had been clamped and dire warnings and penalties stuck on the windscreen. One of them had not been taxed since the end of January this year! Good work by somebody but whether it was the council, a DVLA hit team or Plod-U-Like I do not know!
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