Slight thread drift, but I was talking to a mobile engineer about making phone calls.
He has a Tracker-like device in his van which tells his employers where he is.
It even tells them if the van is moving or not.
So his office try not ring him unless they can 'see' the van has not moved for a few minutes and is therefore parked.
Very sensible, I thought.
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Hope it works out for you. To state the obvious, if you are lucky enough to keep your licence you are going to have to be extra careful for quite some time.
There are various techniques you can use to re-train yourself and your driving style. One is to always match certain gears to the speed limit. In other words use 2nd for 20, 3rd for 30 and so on. That way you get used to how the engine sounds at a certain speed and it just sounds odd if you stray over. If you have a sat nav which can be set to bleep at you if you stray over a speed limit, keep it switched on. At least until you have some spare points to play with, keep your phone switched off unless parked. Even with a hands free you can't afford the distraction right now.
I'm sure there are other wee tricks, including simple concentration but I don't think any of us can claim to have never lost that for a moment.
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Some people have kept their licenses with more than 12 points at the direction of the courts, so be aware that what seems like a good thing to happen could also be a trick to make you voluntarily surrender your license without giving the discretion of a magistrate a chance. I would contact a solicitor who specialises in motoring cases. Have a look in the Yellow pages at the adverts.
What I would worry about is paying the fine and sending your license for the points and then having it revoked until the points expire, whereas in a court there is a small chance you may not be banned but get a bigger fine, but this is not expert advice which I think you need.
Edited by Hamsafar on 17/05/2009 at 14:46
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Ignore the 3 points from Dec 06. As far as totting is concerned they are spent but will remain on your Licence until Dec 2010 and notifiable for Insurance purposes until Dec 2011.
So at the moment you have 9 'totting' points current on your Licence and have been flashed again. You have responded to the Conditional Offer sent out.
On receipt at the Mags Clerks Office they will inspect your Licence, see that you latest escapade will bring you into the realms of a totting disqualification of 6 months so they will return your cheque and Licence and advise you that the matter will be referred to Court for purposes of a disqualification.
A summons will follow.
You then have some options. One presumes that you would plead 'Guilty' as you do not mention any matters upong which to plead Not Guilty.
The Court will be looking at a disqualification, fine, Prosecition costs (£40 - £60) and £15 Victim Support surcharge.
In relation to disqualification the Court has options.
It can be asked to ignore the totting disqualification and impose a shorter (56 day)disqualification by dealing with the offence summoned leaving the 9 points on the Licence as a preventive measure for the future.
OR
Go for the 6 months 'totting' disqualification which will remove all previous active points so the Licence is back to clean at the end of the ban as far as totting is concerned. In relation to this if you can prove that such a ban will cause severe hardship i.e. loss of job, house, marriage whatever and you will need proof of this in statement from employer etc. then the bench can dispose of the 'totting' disqualification and only impose fine (which no doubt will be hefty).
If your living is connected to driving then as stated it may well be prudent to engage the services of a Traffic Solicitor.
Mobile Phone Offence is DRIVING a motor vehicle on a road and using such a device.
Stationary at Traffic Lights is still driving as is pulling to the side of the road , leaving engine running and using phone so on that score your were caught.
Further offences committed whilst this matter is being resolved with be dealt with straight to Court.
dvd
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Ignore the 3 points from Dec 06. As far as totting is concerned they are spent but will remain on your Licence until Dec 2010 and notifiable for Insurance purposes until Dec 2011.
I hesitate to question the eminence grise of motoring law DVD, but doesn't the totting period run for 3 years, and isn't December 2006 less than three years ago?
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Wooops
You have me Manetee.
I am ahead of myself......... less 9% Special Brew with Yorkie puds... lesson learnt.
Dec points deactivated this COMING Dec....
dvd
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I confess I checked here in case I'd missed something - there might be some other stuff useful to the OP -
tinyurl.com/qs37mz
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9% Special Brew
Guh guh guh... seriously toxic stuff that. However rugged your nervous system, it will succumb in the end.
Try Leffe Blonde DVD. Much more cheering.
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It might be worth having some driving lessons. My logic behind that is you can show the court that your judgement/awareness was not upto scratch so you have had lessons to imrpove your driving it might make you less likely to loose it.
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I know this sounds silly, but don't worry too much, we have numerous people in my compan ywho have all exceeded the 12 points, one of them got and I kid you not, 21 points within 3 years! thats correct 21 points!! and everytime he went to court with a letter from one of the bosses saying he'd lose his job etc etc, he got off without being banned! The fines in fairness were pretty big, the last one he got was close to £1000 but still kept his licence! A few others have gone over the 12 points and also kept there's. In the current climate, the magistrates do not want people losing there jobs over doing 35 in a 30, I understand doing it 4 or more times should get you a ban.... but in most cases it doesn't, not from what I've seen anyway!
Lee
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The point is that the 'undue hardship' exception from banning is written into the legislation. Unless the court clearly understands that a submission is made in this respect then a ban may well follow. Leef's people didn't just get lucky, they either made personal submissions or had representation. Don't go to court expecting to get lucky, make it clear that you will suffer undue hardship, with good reason why, or get representation. Don't forget that you can quite easily do this yourself and save a solicitors fee towards your fine. If you represent yourself and plead not guilty then the fact that you were at lights won't help - you'd need some other defence. Undue hardship is not the defence, merely a submission either when pleading guilty or after finding of guilt. Don't mix it up as part of a not guilty plea.
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>>Leef's people didn't just get lucky they either made personal submissions or had representation. Don't go to court expecting to get lucky make it clear that
you will suffer undue hardship.>>
What Woodster says is correct, they weren't lucky, they researched what avenues they could go down and used undue hardship rule to the max, the lad who had 21 points had a solicitor, Letter from the Chief Exec and a personal appearance by his gaffer (head of retail), Magistrates told him at 21 points if they saw him again anytime soon they would ban him for 3 years! maximum fine etc and also that he was very lucky that his employer had gave a glowing account of his work, his boss saying that him would cause him to lose his job and eventually his home swung it!
A couple of other lads all got letters from the company, pleaded guilty and said how very sorry they were etc got a severe dressing down in court, fined and sent on there way, I think a couple of them got sent on a speed awareness course also, costing £120 or something like that? but they keept there driving licence.
Lee
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I know this sounds silly but don't worry too much we have numerous people in my company ..... Lee
Snipquote - Carl, please don't quote the entire message you're replying to - thanks
Thanks Lee, that gives me a little hope!
Edited by Webmaster on 18/05/2009 at 10:39
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It even tells them if the van is moving or not.>> So his office try not ring him unless they can 'see' the van has not moved for a few minutes and is therefore parked.>> Very sensible I thought.
Great....so that lavatory moment he's been waiting for, for hours....he just gets in there...and... the phone rings.........;-)
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I am staggered by the number of "professional" drivers I see with a phone clapped totheir ear when a bluetooth earpiece is about £20.
£8.00 - £10.00 nearer the mark.
MD
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If you'll be caused "exceptional hardship" then you can ask the court not to ban you. The 12 points remain on your licence - and, given your record ;), may simply be putting off the inevitable - serious point, because you can't argue exceptional hardship on the same grounds again within three years.
What constitutes EH varies from court to court. It may be worth getting a solicitor - equally, it may be throwing money away. As others have pointed out, you might argue for a short ban on this offence (but then drive carefully, because the old points will still be on).
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'Undue hardship' is not having to get up half an hour earlier to catch a bus either :-O
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I have never seen how a court handles this, so I'm only guessing, but I reckon that the magistrate will probably have guidance to balance things. On one hand avoiding the exceptional hardship of losing a job, and the other avoiding allowing someone to continue what the law says is bad driving.
If that guess is right, then the balance may be tilted in your favour by some evidence that you have taken steps to avoid further breaches of the rules. I suppose that could be technical measures (such a the speed-warning gadget suggested above or a speed-limiter), changes in technique (the lower gear suggested earlier, maybe some advanced driving training), or some change to work practices to reduce the pressure on you (but probably little chance of that in the current business climate).
Even if a solicitor doesn't represent you in court they can advise on the usefulness of any such approaches. And will probably stress the importance of being genuinely apologetic etc.
Good luck!
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CarlD, do let us know how you get on, won't you?
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Has anyone else noticed the usual, "I am new to the site" first post and all that, and by the way can anyone tell me how to get off a speeding fine, ticket, camera etc.
I find it annoying that people delve into this forum initially and sometimes only, just to get advice about getting off driving offences. Using the knowledge here to their advantage. I've been on here over a year and seen this used a number of times. Why can't they join in as other posters and maybe then seek advice to evade "capture" or legal help.
Then when challenged, you get mods threatening to chop posts. No doubt this being one;-)
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>>Has anyone else noticed the usual, "I am new to the site" first post and all that, and by the way can anyone tell me how to get off a speeding fine, ticket, camera etc.
Shirley there's nothing wrong with that? A non-member searching the web for info will come across a number of sites such as this and might well register and ask for advice. Seems quite a natural thing to me.
It's not surprising. If my wallpaper fell off, not being a member of a decorators' forum I think I'd look for one to post a question on.
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Has anyone else noticed the usual "I am new to the site" first post and all that and by the way can anyone tell me how to get off a speeding fine ticket camera etc.
Snip quote - see above
To be fair I have little interest in cars and have had no real reason to be concerned about a driving ban until now, which is why I decided to join this forum. If I could help others I would, and if my case goes to court I'll be more than happy to share the experience with anyone else who faces a similar situation. I understand that I have broken the law, and I'm not asking for advice on how to get away without a ban, I'm simply asking about procedures.
Edited by Webmaster on 18/05/2009 at 10:38
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CarlD do let us know how you get on won't you?
I will do, I'm grateful for all the advice.
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>> CarlD do let us know how you get on won't you? >> I will do, I'm grateful for all the advice.
Well, CarlD, how did you get on?
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Job loss always tugs on the magistrates heart strings. A letter from the boss stating that they would have to consider their employees future etc, or even a personal appearance, usually wins the day.
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Thanks Manatee, the phones that work issue me with are that old they don't have bluetooth on them, I have however since got a hands free kit for it.
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If you end up pleading undue hardship in court, as I suspect you might, that is one of the points to make:
"You worships, I have since purchased a handsfree kit, I no longer make outgoing calls on the move, and if I take a call, I do so legally using the kit, so the phone offence will not be repeated."
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With deference to IIH - "Your worships, the telephone supplied by my employers does not feature a hands-free facility. Realising that this is an unsatifactory situation I have purchased a hands free kit of my own which I am now using when making/taking calls. On this basis I cn assure your worships that there will be no repetition of this offence on my part"
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