I'm not talking about the boy racers who have stuck xenons into their old bangers but a new car with xenons fitted as an (expensive) option. I have travelled in identical models on the same rural road at night. Without xenons the dipped beams were really poor and it was really difficult to see the road, with xenons it was much, much better but a couple of drivers flashed.
The headlights were correctly aligned in case you thought otherwise.
|
|
Although your headlights are correctly aligned undulations and bends in the road can point your lights at oncoming drivers. People will only react (flash) if dazzled and think you are on main beam (or fogs on).
Edited by Old Navy on 21/01/2009 at 09:09
|
|
|
Without xenons ........... it was really difficult to see the road .................
Perhaps you need to go to Specsavers ;-)
............ with xenons .......... a couple of drivers flashed.
Legal though they may be, they're usually still very bright.
Edited by L'escargot on 21/01/2009 at 09:10
|
Legal though they may be, they're usually still very bright.
That's the whole point of them though isn't it?
I don't really know why the manufacturers had to move away from halogens myself, but it seems to be the case that newer cars have projector headlights and these are mainly designed for xenon bulbs. Maybe it's just a way of getting people to pay a fortune for them as extras.
I should point out that it's easy to see the same road at night in an older car with normal halogen headlights.
Edited by andyfr on 21/01/2009 at 09:15
|
|
|
Well my eyesight is fine, but having gone back to candle power in the Vectra from Xenons in the Omega (sadly missed!), Xenons are going to high up in requirements in my next car. Not quite essentials, but very close.
People flash for all sorts of irrational reasons anyway. I was following a car at about 80+ in lane 3 of the M25 last week - not too close - and although he was clearly reluctant to move over when there was no traffic in lane 2, he eventually did. Once in front of him I got a full array of his main beams etc in my mirror - and it wasn't just a quick flash. Naturally I braked very hard as I thought something must have been wrong with my car of which I was unaware. ;-)
|
I was following a car at about 80+
Shame on you for breaking the law.
Once in front of him .......... I braked very hard ........
Even greater shame on you for deliberately carrying out a dangerous act. And yet more shame on you for bragging about it.
Edited by L'escargot on 21/01/2009 at 09:33
|
SQ!!!
Even greater shame on you for deliberately carrying out a dangerous act. And yet more shame on you for bragging about it.
I think he was joking. LOL!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 21/01/2009 at 12:47
|
I think he was joking.
About the whole chain of events?
|
Not the whole chain - speed was about right, and I certainly got a decent dazzle from an extended flashing... (I say that, because I considered whether he could be being pious about me breaking the speed limit on what was,at the point a fairly clear road. But that would have been somewhat two-faced, as we were definitely reasonably well over 70 for some considerable time.
I was very tempted to do the braking thing, as the blinding was so unnecessary...
|
|
Perhaps he thought you were tailgating and didn't appreciate you driving up his backside
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 21/01/2009 at 18:29
|
Yep, I'm sure you're all right, that it was something I was doing rather than him being a pink fluffy dice
I personally think he hadn't checked his mirrors for quite some considerable miles and therefore was surprised to see someone behind him, at his speed, so he instinctively moved over (maybe thinking it was a police car) then resented the fact that he pulled over to let an ordinary Joe past. I won't state the model of the car, but if we ran a poll then I'm sure the Backroom would get it right :-)
|
I have noticed sometimes that I think I see a blue flashing police light in the distance, but it turns out to be a xenoned car - off-centre the lights appear blue, and with their tendancy to "flash", this might explain what happened.
MVP
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm not talking about the boy racers who have stuck xenons into their old bangers but a new car with xenons fitted as an (expensive) option. I have travelled in identical models on the same rural road at night. Without xenons the dipped beams were really poor and it was really difficult to see the road with xenons it was much much better but a couple of drivers flashed.
It's a myth that xenons are always better. I have two Saab 9-5s, one with and one without xenons. Given a set of Osram/Phillips +80 bulbs, the halogen is better. The only benefit of the xenons is the greater evenness of spread.
In addition, the xenons cannot properly be adjusted for driving on the continent. I have a set of LHD headlights for the non-xenon car - 20 minutes and I'm set up for long journeys ofn the continent with a decent set of lights. The best I can hope to do with the xenons is either use a beam adaptor to reduce the flip-up to the left, or adjust them right down. Either way, I reduce the light output and therefore the safety factor.
Give me ordinary halogens every time.
|
It's a myth that xenons are always better.
I don't think, nor did I say, that they are. I'm just going from my own observations. On dipped beam there was not enough light a few metres in front to drive at a normal speed, on main beam no problems.
In a different car with just normal halogens it was fine.
I'm sure the manufacturers are capable of designing headlights for halogen bulbs which fit in with their design but they just want to get buyers to part with extra money for the xenon option.
|
The reason why car companies are switching to xenons is that they can charge a lot more for replacements bits when they go wrong.
|
|
|
It's a myth that xenons are always better. I don't think nor did I say that they are. I'm just going from my own observations. On dipped beam there was not enough light a few metres in front to drive at a normal speed on main beam no problems. In a different car with just normal halogens it was fine.
I appreciate that, although your original post is slightly confusing and implies that. Sorry if I misinterpreted it. However, I was also trying to make a general point for the benefit of other backroomers who may not be familiar with them and may be faced with a choice, that they need to make their own judgement as to whether they feel they are right for them.
|
That's okay Mike, I could have worded it better maybe.
I would much prefer to have halogens if they performed well enough. We live in a rural area and have a long drive on unlit roads. It would be better to have a night test drive but that's not always practical.
|
|
|
Whilst I had xenons I really appreciated them for the beam spread and they were much better than the lights in the car that preceeded it. Dropping back to halogen like I have now, I dont miss them funnily enough-I think that maybe because I dont drive fast enough to need the extra lighting performance.
My old Omega had xenons and I'm pretty sure you could dip them the other way with levers for driving on the continent.
|
|
|
|
|
Given a set of Osram/Phillips +80 bulbs the halogen is better.
But how long do they last, in my experience 3-4 months. I was forever changing bulbs on my old car trying to get the best lights, only to have them fail far too soon. My new car with Xenons has a far better lights and should last the lifetime of the car.
|
|
|
|
|
They "flash" because they're being dazzled. Simple.
|
Bring back sealed beams!
Quote:
I was very tempted to brake, as the flashing seemed so unnecessary...
I find in such situations the handbrake works much better :-)
With all this dazzling malarkey I'm seriously considering having half a dozen NiteSuns fitted to the roof bars on the Jeep. The KC Hilites just don't cut it any more...
|
What about the new big Lexus with 3 LED clusters for the dipped beam, I think I read that they give 5x more lumens than HID.
No-one has ever flashed mine during the last 6-7 years. Most of the dazzling I get is from halogens with crookedly installed bulbs or where the lamps have been knocked to point upwards presumably in a small bump that caused no visible damage.
|
My 407 Coupe has adaptive Xenon headlights and they are superb. Get flashed once in a blue moon.
On the other hand, the xenons in the works Volvo are hopeless.
|
|
You're not likely to get flashed in the works Volvo really though, mlc? ;-)
|
|
It does happen every now and again. I'd just love to see the look on their face when they pass and realise what they've flashed. :)
|
|
|
|
|
Doesn't 50% brighter (etc) mean 50% more dazzling and therefore 50% more antisocial and therefore 50% more likely to be flashed at?
|
The newer model Discoveries are especially unpleasant, with their searingly blinding beams. Was followed closely by one the other night, on dip, and I felt like I was sitting in a floodlit stadium.
I have my eyes tested every six months and do not have cataracts.
|
The newer model Discoveries are especially unpleasant with their searingly blinding beams. >>
Are we surprised when 4x4s are equipped with anti-social lighting?
Edited by Waino on 21/01/2009 at 16:08
|
|
|
What GWS said. ^^
Just occurred to me that I get regularly flashed thanks to the HID lamp on my bike, though I wish I had one that pointed backwards with a red filter in it as well...
|
|
When someone flashes me when I suspect it's my Xenons I flash them back. Well they were probably just saying hello ;-) And I like to show them I have full beam as wel ;-)
|
FT summed up this thread for me:
They "flash" because they're being dazzled
Says it all, really. I won't flash somone for the odd dazzle when they run over a bump, but I will if its continuously blinding me and badly adjusted... and as others say the xenons just make badly adjusted lights worse... and I've lost track of the number of times I've had to use the dipping function on my rearview mirror due to overly bright headlights behind me, and yes they are large 4x4s in the main... is it any wonder many of us don't like the things!
|
Why do these idiots use the things on clear, sunny days? Are they blind or just want everyone to know they have Xenon lights? And part of the problem with 4 x 4's is that their headlamps are higher up, so calculated to hit your rear view mirror even if adjusted properly. Not to mention the appalling frequency of bad road surfaces and humps nowadays which causes the 'flash' effect.
(Rant over)
|
And part of the problem with 4 x 4's is that their headlamps are higher up so calculated to hit your rear view mirror even if adjusted properly.
I find its usually that they drive too close.
|
|
|
|
When someone flashes me when I suspect it's my Xenons I flash them back. >>
Let's just hope that they aren't so blinded that they crash into you!
|
"Let's just hope that they aren't so blinded that they crash into you!"
I do not have bi-xenons. The full beam is halogen bulbs so no different to what they did to me.
|
|
|
|
|
I know that a lot of you probably don't give a toss, but if you're cycling along an unlit road and a car goes past with xenons (or badly adjusted halogens for that matter) then you are effectively totally blind for about 15 seconds. That doesn't sound like a big deal, but try closing your eyes for 15 secs next time you're driving.
Of course, drivers who simply don't dip their lights are worse, is it worth starting a campaign to bring back the death penalty for this?
Anyway, my point is that it's annoying when you're driving, but potentially fatal for cyclists. HID bike lights are good, I have much cheaper but still fairly evil (2X 230 lumen) LED lamps, one has a very concentrated beam that I can point directly at drivers. This is quite effective, but I wonder how many drivers, as shown by the very existence of this thread, don't even realise why they're getting flashed?
|
|
|
|
|
|
If you are blinding me as i approach, whether because of over bright xenons, full beam, or just badly aligned lights (how do i tell ?) i will flash you. If on xenons you then choose to go to full beam and blind me completely, don't be surprised if we have a "head on".
More light on unlit roads must make for better safety, but xenons clearly (ha ha) only benefit the people behind them. - IMHO
|
|
Is there a difference between you flashing them and them flashing you????
|
|
There is a difference between a "flash" and a constant "blind"
|
There is a difference between a "flash" and a constant "blind"
Key point there, Stan, and thats the difference... if its "blind" it means that the headlights are badly adjusted, and the problem we have is that the brighter the light the more any discrepancy in alignment shows up...
Its like those twits who use their front fog lights all the time because they "light up the road better"... I take it that it hasn't occured to them that the reason for this is because they are badly adjusted? Front fogs should always be worse than ordinary dipped beams for normal driving, if they aren't then they are out of alignment...
|
Front fogs .............
Most front fogs don't seem to have any means of alignment.
|
Most front fogs don't seem to have any means of alignment.
But when the car is built they point towards the ground where they are supposed to... I'm sure they could be "adjusted" to do that if required... like many things making sure your lights are adjusted correctely isn't even on the radar for most drivers... you only have to look at the number of non-working lights to realise that... lazyness.
|
|
I've used my front fogs so rarely that I don't think I'd notice if they were wrongly adjusted. I bet, in the 12 years of owning the car, that I could count the number of times used on the fingers of both hands.
|
I bet in the 12 years of owning the car that I could count the number of times used on the fingers of both hands.
I'm the same, I thinks its called "Correct use of front fog lights"!
Rather than "Chav use of front fog lights"! ;)
Edited by b308 on 22/01/2009 at 10:13
|
|
|
|
I find Xenons are unpleasantly bright when coming towards me. I don't like them but I wouldn't flash the driver. They are legal and I guess its my problem. Really don't like them on other peoples cars but wouldn't mind a set for mine.......
;-)
|
|
I don't find proper xenon's to be the problem. It is cars with xenon bulbs in place of halogen bulbs. You can tell the difference because of how the headlight unit looks most of the time.
|
|
|
Maybe it is just me (usually is!) but since owning my first xenon equiped car, I notice the odd driver coming towards me will drift towards the centre line. I can only presume they are looking at my lights for some reason (proably thinking they are bright and trying to decide whether I have full beam on and should they flash me.....).
I find people flash me when I'm driving over the brow of a hill just as they are coming the other way. Even non-xenon car lights will seem brighter if you both meet on a brow - just xenons are that bit brighter.
I think because xenon are bright right up to the beam cut off, where as halogens tend to fade out up to the beam pattern, they appear brighter.
|
|
|
|
|
Just saying hi back to them MLC :-) And showing them they should not have flashed and blinded me with full beam, i.e. they were in the wrong and might learn from it. They think you're probably on full beam when you are not.
|
|
With manufacturers like Audi about to release cars with all LED lighting (even full beam) which is even brighter but needs less electricity, even drivers of Xenon equipped cars will be getting annoyed ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
If on xenons you then choose to go to full beam and blind me completely don't be surprised if we have a "head on".
I'm not saying I like that sort of situation, but I just avert my eyes towards the left-hand edge of the road and that solves the problem. That's what I was taught to do. Read "Defensive Driving, Rule 34" ............ tinyurl.com/b5cgpj
|
|
|
|
|
I think some drivers deliberately adjust one of their headlights higher than it should be on dipped beam, possibly to compensate for defective eyesight.
|
I think some drivers deliberately adjust one of their headlights higher than it should be on dipped beam
As it's part of the MOT how can people have badly adjusted headlights? Do they do as you suggest and then adjust them back before the MOT?
Edited by andyfr on 22/01/2009 at 11:36
|
As it's part of the MOT how can people have badly adjusted headlights? Do they do as you suggest and then adjust them back before the MOT?
There's nowt so queer as folk!
|
There's nowt so queer as folk!
That's very true!
|
In the last 24 hours I have seen:
- A car with one headlight out so driving on full beam
- A car with both side and headlight out on passenger side.... so driving with foglights on
I don't think it's a xenon HID issue. It is poorly aligned and maintained headlights. And people fitting ultra bright bulbs. At least with factory fit HID lights they have some automatic adjustment and headlight cleaning system.
|
|
|
|
