Hello. I don't know anything about cars so would like to ask for some opinions.
I've been looking for a safe and cheap (to buy and run) used car in Cornwall. I have found a G reg 309 GLi Peugeot. It's done 160, 000 miles, has no tax, 12 months MOT, no PAS, 1.9 litre diesel engine. It's being sold for £300 by a guy that looks as if he could be trustable.
I took it for a test drive and it seemed solid enough (don't have any experience of driving old diesels) though it might need new brakes (I only have modern car brakes to compare it to).
The car itself was in really good condition considering its age, it's had 3 owners, original car guide and service history all there (though just stamps, no details). Engine again looked in good condition for its age. It basically didn't look like it had been abused or driven a lot.
The oil was black though. Also when the car first started there was an initial burst of smoke that lasted for one second then nothing.
I'm hoping it'll do at least 50mpg
Read the review on this site, seemed quite positive.
Does this seem an OK buy?
If so, I don't know how I should bargain. I thought I might ask him to throw in a new cambelt, cambelt end seals and valve stem seals (as honest john review recommends) for the same price. Asking for new brakes might be a bit much.
Any advice - would be grateful
Edited by Pugugly on 13/10/2008 at 20:03
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Diesel oil goes from honey to black in less than a mile in my experience.
I wouldn't worry about a bit of soot on startup - every diesel I've owned has done this.
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Oil will be black - its a diesel. Depends how much £300 means to you. It has twelve months MoT so applying Bangernomics theory its on the button.
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I doubt if he will throw in a free cambelt for £300 all in. Ask when it last had a cambelt change (the garage might know if the owner doesn't).
All diesels blacken their oil in quite short order, so black oil is nothing to worry about. If you look at it closely and feel it between finger and thumb you will get a better idea of how filthy and knackered it really is. Similarly, a brief puff of smoke when the car has been standing is no big deal.
If you can't assess the brakes yourself, get someone else to.
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Cambelt change should be part of the budget at this end of the market. Id offer £250 unless you can determine when the belt was last done and then if not, get it changed.
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I owned a 1987 309 diesel and took it to 15 years old and 115,000 miles (I think) before selling (we did about 70,000 miles in five and a half years). It had been a motability car to start with and the first owner didn't drive much in the last few years of ownership. The only thing not so good about it was the heavy non-PAS steering. But other than that it was reliable like daybreak and nightfall are reliable, averaged over 50mpg, and was cheap to maintain. As I remember the brakes were a little over-assisted so felt weaker than they were, but you should test them before buying of course.
Mine had been a seaside car so had some rust under the boot floor, but it never needed welding and wasn't in need of it when I sold it; it actually looked quite smart and shiny and everything worked, not that there was much to go wrong. The ride quality should be excellent, and they are relatively quiet and relaxing at motorway speeds. Check for rust on the cross-member behind the front bumper. Mine had that starting when I bought it. I treated it and it didn't get worse in the time I had it, but it did look like a weak spot. This one's older than mine was when I sold it, so it could be an issue, but then again it might not. The rustproofing on these was really excellent.
It sounds like an honest old car to me--three owners in 16 or 17 years tells you something I think--and at that price if you do buy it you can have the cambelt done in six months when you know for sure it's a good car. An oil change every 6000 miles will make it happy. With 12 months' MOT for 300 quid what's the worst that can happen? And it will run on veg oil in the summer months.
Incidentally, the only time mine failed an MOT or needed work to get it through was when the horn failed to work. I tested it the weekend before the MOT and it worked then, but the test must have killed it.
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309 is a 205 with a fancy rear end. Shouldn't rust, therefore, and the engine should be sound enough. Does it have a Bosch or Lucas injector pump? If Bosch then start collecting free used veg oil for it!
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Sound and tough as old boots !
Watch for electrical gremlins in the central locking if fitted- also the factory fit alarm can be isolated by a key - hole for which is inside the alarm sounder 'boot'.
I may be mistaken but i think the 309 was originally going to be a Talbot before Peugeot axed the brand. If memory serves me right, the doors and oily bits are interchangeable with the 205 - just a pity that Peugeot designed it in house rather than letting Pininfarinna loose !
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My aunt owned an F reg 309 GLD from new until it was written off.
She was driving along a rural A road at about 50-55 mph when someone pulled out of a side turning right in front of her. She braked and swerved, clipped the front of his car, went through a hedge into a field and rolled the car 3 times.
She was able to open the door as normal and walk away with just a bruise on her shoulder from the seatbelt and a very slight scratch on her foot where it caught the clutch pedal.
Very impressive crash safety really for such an old design!
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I was going to advise the OP to take a leaf out of yr book onb, but decided yr chipfat crusade would probably lead you to do it yourself...
I had an 1800cc XUD-engined 205, a really great car spoilt only by heavy and low-geared unassisted steering, stolen alas...
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Great cars. I bought two for my sons - total cost £750 for twelve 309 car-years. One was the old Talbot OHV engine - sounded like a tin of nails till we re-set the valve clearances, the other an amazingly nippy OHC 1400. They just didn't rust! Minor corrosion only around the spare wheel area. Only drawback - no airbags, so accusations of parental irresponsibility........
Don't worry about big bills like cambelts - these are disposable cars. If it breaks, get another one! I just adjusted the tension on ours [it was a bit loose] - but not too tight.
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I was once confident enough to sell a 4-year old diesel 309 to a very good lady friend of mine - with 188,000 already on the clock.
It was still going strong 10 years later - virtually nothing had gone wrong and there was no visible rust.
Retro-fitting a PAS rack off a 205 diesel should be possible using an electric pump.
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You can't go wrong with an old Pug diesel IMHO - I currently have a 306 on 250k which starts first time every time and runs flawlessly. I had a 205 a few years ago which had over 180k when I sold it - engine was still solid then. As long as you change the oil and filter every 6k without fail it should just keep on going and should certainly give over 50 to the gallon. Bodywork seems pretty rust proof too.
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Many many thanks everyone - that was really helpful.
Its the garage that's selling it so no more info on cambelt change.
I will offer him £250 and ask him to change the cambelt...
Lud - I didn't get the first part of your message - wld you please repeat?
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"I will offer him £250 and ask him to change the cambelt...
If he's polite he'll show you the door. If he's not be prepared for an earfull.
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£250 and a free cambelt!
I'm off to pack my bags and move west of the tamar..... Living is cheap there!
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I meant pay him for a cambelt, not free...
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"I meant pay him for a cambelt, not free... "
In which case won't he just add £50 onto the cost of the cambelt change? Ask him for the cost of the belt change first!
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You would expect someone to charge something to change a cambelt. It sounds, fingers crossed, as if tizadu has found a fairly decent dealer with a fairly decent banger he is willing to put in decent order. I'm not sure all this advice to bargain hard and make demands is entirely appropriate at this end of the market. People may be right but it doesn't sound like it to me.
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First rule of buying any car - if you dont ask you dont get.
Even at that end of the market there are deals to be had and it is sheer foolishness not to atleast ask. Worst that can happen is dealer refuses and he pays full price.
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OK, point taken. I am a very carp buyer and seller.
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So am I Lud, so am I. In this case I don't see how much cheaper this car can get and not be heading for the crusher, which would be a shame by the sound of it.
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Even at that end of the market there are deals to be had and it is sheer foolishness not to atleast ask. Worst that can happen is dealer refuses and he pays full price.
£250 isn't much beyond the car's scrap value. If the buyer asked me for trimmings on that sort of a deal, I'd be tempted to suggest that they go off and buy the car from a fairy godmother.
But like Lud, I'm not a greater buyer.
Edited by NowWheels on 14/10/2008 at 21:39
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Ive bought and sold atleast 20 cars in this price bracket in the last 6 years and ive managed to get the odd £50 off here and there, it depends on the seller/buyer.
I got a £200 MK2 Cavalier with new MOT and rust free for £125 from a garage as he just wanted rid of it. Holding out for £75 obviously wasnt important to him but I was just being cheeky.
By the same token, when I was selling a mid-80s Mazda 323, advertised for £275, I took £240 because he felt he had got a deal when infact the car only owed me £150.
I wouldnt not do a deal because the seller wouldnt budge on price, but id always ask anyway as you can get alot of modern car for £400 so selling a much older one, getting anything for it is a bonus.
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We had a petrol 309 years ago - it was a good car except the 1.3 petrol engine was getting cronky at 120K miles.
But the Peugeot diesel engine is lcompletely different from the 1.3 petrol one and is long-lived and reliable, I believe. So for £300 it's not too much of a gamble as long as the car is SAFE and ROADWORTHY.
We always found the 309 handled nicely. In a car of this age, check very carefully for structural rust in the body. Even well rustproofed makes and models succumb eventually.
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Just wanted to thank everyone again for all their help.
I bought the car last weekend but won't be driving it officially until next wk/end when I tax and insure it. I paid the full £300 plus £70 for a new cambelt. Thought I'd locked myself out of it on the first day as the lock jams so I carry WD40 with me.
No doubt will be asking for more advice on the other discussions before long....
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I had one of these, pretty good in most departments, did 225000 miles before I sold it. The only gripe I had with is was that there were always problems with the front end, CV joints, anti roll bar bushes, ball joints, and I've never known a car for getting split boots on the CVs as much as that one.
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>I got a £200 MK2 Cavalier with new MOT and rust free for £125 from a garage as he just wanted rid of it.<
It does seem harsh to ask for £50 off a £300 car, but the seller will have a book margin in there somewhere, and you can ask for a share of it to see how keen he is to get rid. A few years ago I went for a late 205 1.4 advertised at £2999 at a non-franchise. I didn't know how long it had been there but I offered £2K which was accepted without much hassle. So at the £300 level you may well get away with £50 - but at the end of the day the satisfaction of screwing money out of someone may be worth more than the actual saving?
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