Is it me or is this car unbelievable cheap. Or has it got something to do with the fact that it is going to cost a fortune to run on petrol and road tax? If I could afford it then I think I would be tempted.
tinyurl.com/38vung
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For a start these statements do not tie up:
"First Registered: 1 Jan 2006" and "Cost over £30,000 when new 1 year ago!, "
unless it has been on his forecourt for another year since first writing the blurb.
Secondly, as I posted in the VED thread, a sealer in Slough is offering 18 month old Saabs, with less than 20k miles on the clock, at £10000 - £11000 which are claimed to cost over £30000 new.
So that level of depreciation does seem not to be an isolated case.
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For a start these statements do not tie up: "First Registered: 1 Jan 2006" and "Cost over £30 000 when new 1 year ago! " unless it has been on his forecourt for another year since first writing the blurb.
True.
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This is inordinately cheap for a 2 yr old 30K car of this type.
If it is truly this price it is a steal - but I'd have it checked out to make sure it is not stolen or an insurance write have seen 3 yr old cars with 60K @ £14,000 a Scooby dealers.
If you do not know the filling station people well just now you will be on 1st name terms in no time with a 3ltr petrol car.
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It's silly cheap if genuine. Check carefully. Brilliant cars though. I have a manual and get around 25-29 mpg depending on journey and driving style although I rarely do urban driving where you'd probably get 21-22mpg. It prefers superunleaded, I use Tesco 99 octane or Shell V power. Top rate rfl too, but then so are many lesser cars. The engine is a peach and they handle superbly. Nicely anonymous too, they don't stand out and most people haven't a clue what it is. Fully loaded with toys including a very good dvd-based satnav.
Check out the used car finder at www.subaru.co.uk to compare prices.
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Looking carefully at the photos the front and rear number plates don't seem to be dealer ones (no logo at the bottom of the plate etc). Not a good sign IMHO. It will cost an absolute fortune to run as well....
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I personally wouldn't worry too much about the plates - they do match front and rear and appear to have just been changed for patriotic ones. I had a pair of dealer plates that became delaminated and grotty after a couple of years. Worse would be a different front plate only, but the non-dealer plates should be a prompt to look for any damage or other signs of something amiss.
Poor wording by the dealer. It could have been on the forecourt before Christmas, and called a one year old car by it being 2006 reg and the year then beong 2007.
A 3.0 litre auto Subaru isn't going to be the most efficient car, the gearbox very likely to give worse economy than Nick's manual. However, if the car's buyer isn't going to be doing huge miles in it, the relative fuel cost compared to depreciation, servicing, etc may not break the bank. That is exaggerated by above average servicing and tax being one group from the top for the next few years.
I wouldn't say it's cheap because of the whole package, but it lot of good car for the money.
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The servicing's not too bad either, at least at my local, very rural, dealer. You won't need many, if any, spare parts either. It'll be cheaper to run than a 3 series BMW and try buying one of those at that age for that money.
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I must admit they do look a nice car. My experience with my Impreza gives me a lot of confidence in Subaru and I understand the attraction. What is always in the back of my mind when I get tempted by a car like that is, who will buy if off me when I want to sell after a couple of years? I think if you buy a car like that then you may have it 'for life'. Older BMW and Mercedes retain some desirability and value when old because there is an extensive network of third party parts suppliers and repairers. I imagine when you (eventually) need say a new exhaust for this Legacy, or a new HID unit for a headlight, then it will cost an absolute fortune. Not knocking the car at all, just the longer-term ownership prospects.
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Selling a Subaru privately can be more difficult than other cars as they just don't seem to be on the radar of Mr. and Mrs. Average. I think most are p/exed in the dealer network.
You can get some aftermarket parts like brakes and filters etc, but as far as I know pattern exhausts aren't available. The factory ones last well though, I had over 6 years and 135k out of one and it was still ok when I sold the car.
I think the writing is on the wall for any large-engined car now. This and probably future governments have it in for motorists, an easy cash cow that they can dress in green clothes. Enjoy them while you can.
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There's an important thing missing from the seller's website - his address. A legitimate business should provide details of its place of business, and details of who owns the company (if it is a registered company rather than a sole trader).
All you have here is a phone number (which could be somebody's back bedroom) and a website. Tread very carefully.
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Judging by the pics I'd say it's a home trader. He might have had the car for too long and wants rid hence price.
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As a check, ring up and ask for a VAT reg no.
(Buying on behalf of a business).
If none, or he refuses!:-(((
I looked at site wording very carefully: he trades from home imo ...
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" There's an important thing missing from the seller's website - his address."
Which I've found out in 15 seconds - a whois on the domain name reveals his postcode to be BR7 5** and his first name is Adam.
Full info at www.whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=gt-international&tld...m
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I know we like to be further on this site. But all I am really asking is this car in general cheap and is it a sign of things to come where cars that have larger engines/high emissions will be extremely hard to sell. Due to the fact it will cost a fortune to fill up every few days and road tax, as the emissions on these cars will be high.
My car is a diesel and I am starting to feel the pinch.
Sorry if I never made my original post clear.
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BW,
Legacys are seen as having high fuel consumption, high running costs and high CO2 emissions. Legacy saloons like the one in your ad are competing against German marques, Hondas etc where the preceived quality and image to Joe Public is higher, or Mondoe/Vectra etc with lower cost of ownership, so they sell on for less.
OTOH, Legacy estates have a loyal following as working cars, and those who buy on practical grounds know they cost less to run than the traditional 4x4 (e.g. Disco) they'd otherwise buy. That's why, if I was in the market for a nearly-new Legacy, I'd have an estate - even if I didn't have dogs, bikes, boat parts etc to fill it with.
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Why are you all in such discussion over the simple sale of one of my cars?
I have had one member stating that i am illegally trading under the OFT???
What is your problem
My VAT number is 888 4350 76
I have been trading for 6 years. If you would like a viewing or test drive you can call me on 07912 215069 or in the office on 020 8467 0835.
I'm sure it's not the first time you've seen a typo in a car ad. I will change it to 2 years!
Adam Field
All viewings are by appointment only
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Yes its a cheap car. I drive the equivalent Outback and its lovely, just lovely. But not a car for someone who is doing 20,000 miles pa, or for whom fuel costs are a worry. I do about 9,000 miles pa and the fuel costs don't worry me. They may do in the future, but for now, they are incidental to the overall costs of my business.
My only problem with the car is that it does not have the built in SatNav, which I would want, but others may not care.
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GT International,
Can I state that in no way am I saying there is anything wrong with the car. In fact if I could afford the running costs then I would be interested.
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Gromit said >> There's an important thing missing from the seller's website - his address. A legitimate business should provide details of its place of business, and details of who owns the company (if it is a registered company rather than a sole trader). >>
So is that true? Does GT International need to give those details in order to be "legitimate"?
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I think the truth is that large Japanese saloons have always been a (relatively) cheap used buy. Think Camry, Maxima QX, Legend etc etc. Buyers of big, costly to run, cars generally want 'status' and rightly or wrongly that is seen to come with a German badge. The Subaru is probably even more out on a limb because its seen as a slightly 'odd ball' brand by some people.
The road tax argument is a bit of red herring. Sure, its extra unwelcome cost but set against the general running costs, insurance and (especially) depreciation, its not going to be a deal breaker.
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The road tax argument is a bit of red herring. Sure its extra unwelcome cost but set against the general running costs insurance and (especially) depreciation its not going to be a deal breaker.
Correct. My partner was moaning that the RFL was rising from £205 to £430 pa. But that is just four tansk of fuel. Completely irrelevant to our overall cost base and profitability.
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"But that is just four tansk of fuel. Completely irrelevant to our overall cost base and profitability. "
Which sums up nicely why motorists in the Uk are seen as an easy target by Chancellors looking to raise money.
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My beef about all the Chancellors and Red Ken's comments are that the rich can afford the extra charges so will continue (like me) to drive a 'polluting' car. The poor don't care and the middle class get squeezed.
What he should have done, is to stop the sale of all cars which produce more than 225g of CO2. That would focus the manufacturers minds on producing much more efficient cars, especially if that limit fell by 25g every five years to a level of say 150g.
The problem of course is that cars have so much extra stuff in them now, so they are heavier and less efficient. Imaging putting the 1.3 Fiat Multijet diesel into the original Fiat Panda....100mph and 100mpg would be almost certain.
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>Espada
"What he should have done, is to stop the sale of all cars which produce more than 225g of CO2"
Put Jaguar, Land Rover , Bentley ,Rolls Royce,and Bristol out of business overnight?
yeah... right... stand by for a few writs :-))
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But why should British firms have the monopoly of producing excessive CO2. What about Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Merc, BMW, Audi, Porsche etc etc.
The whole point of manufacturers like those mentioned is that they have enough money and prestige to offer something totally unusual. If they produce a car with similar levels of performance and luxury whilst doing even 35mpg on a run, that would be a good start. Yes the car would be expensive, relying on expensive materials and clever engineering solutions, but people would pay for that, just like they pay now.
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SNIPQUOTE!So is that true? Does GT International need to give those details in order to be "legitimate"?
Yes.
Their website is contrary to the law
www.out-law.com/page-7594
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 18/03/2008 at 19:19
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SNIPQUOTE AGAIN!Their website is contrary to the law www.out-law.com/page-7594
That reference applies specifically to companies. If Mr Field is a sole trader then it does not apply to him.
If however he were selling direct from his site (i.e. shopping cart, payment facilities and shipping to customer) he would need to provide his address.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 18/03/2008 at 19:19
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GTI,
The consensus seems to be that this car is notably cheaper than similar, that's why the sale of this one car has generated interest. Do you agree it is notably cheaper and if so why is this?
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GTI The consensus seems to be that this car is notably cheaper
People should have checked:
Subaru Legacy Saloon (03 on) 1. 3.0 R Spec B 4d Auto
2005/55
Average mileage: 30,000 miles
Original Price £27,227
Franchised Dealer £11,040
Independent Dealer £10,125
Private Good £9,210
Private Poor £7,910
Part Exchange £8,520
So it was less than £30k to start with, and it has depreciated HORRIBLY - wherever you buy it from.
The price is not abnormal.
With the retrospective road tax, etc., it seems about right.
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Flunky is right. I looked at Legacies when considering buying a Subaru. The saloons in particular drop like a block of lead. They also seem to 'stick' on dealers forecourts, even at their relatively low prices.
On the theme of car tax. Yes, rich people can go on driving larger engine cars because they have the money to run them. Poor people don't. That's the way of the world. On the other hand I don't think many people on minimum wage have been put off buying a BMW 7 series because the Chancellor has put up road tax. They wouldn't have bought one anyway.
A £100 increase is not a lot really these days. A meal with a bottle of wine in a decent restaurant will cost you £100 - and that's outside of London!
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The price is not abnormal.
Confirms my statement in the very first reply to the OP " that level of depreciation does seem not to be an isolated case ".
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Therefore a great buy for someone who does a lowish mileage but wants a smooth and individual mile muncher.
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I am a sole trader and i am operating 100% legally! I am a member of two motoring federations, i have trade plates and public liability insurance. It is hard enough trying to earn a living being self employed with out the added concern of having people discrediting me online.
The vehicle is advertised at the current market value as indicated by all current guides including CAP, Glasses and Parkers.
If you would like to pay me more money that advertised you have my phone number a few posts up.
Thanks Adam
ps we have had this car in stock 3 weeks and have had only 2 failed viewings dispite the car being 100% throughout.
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I've just noticed it's a 3.0R not a Spec B. Hence no satnav or some suspension tweaks I think. The CBCG will reveal all. Still looks a lovely car though with a year Subaru warranty left.
Looking at the depreciation, yes they do depreciate quite fast, but not many pay the full list price. I paid £8k less than the £27k quoted for a pre-reg with 10 miles on it so the depreciation on mine is £3-4k per year at the moment. Bad enough but no worse than many other cars.
Edited by nick on 18/03/2008 at 17:34
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I paid £8k less than the £27k quoted for a pre-reg with 10 miles on it
Wow, lost about 30% of its value in those 10 miles!
They are a nice car, I agree, but with those kinds of costs I wouldn't want to run one from new unless someone else was paying.
>>so the depreciation on mine is £3-4k per year at themoment.
Are you sure? Sounds a conservative estimate if a two-year old one is retailing at £10k or thereabouts. Presumably they take another dive when the warranty runs out.
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Wow lost about 30% of its value in those 10 miles!
Not really, nobody pays full price. Subaru themselves offer £3k off so that's down to £24k before you even start to haggle.
>>so the depreciation on mine is £3-4k per year at the >> moment. Are you sure? Sounds a conservative estimate if a two-year old one is retailing at £10k or thereabouts.
According to the Glass's guide on the Vauxhall site, the trade-in for mine is £13150 so that's £3900 per year over the 18 months. How accurate that is is anyone's guess. Not that it really matters, most big, new petrol cars do much the same. The rate will slow down somewhat now, according to What Car's depreciation predictor. Unless the budget changes make a difference.
I'm in two minds whether to keep it for a long time or chop it for another Subaru
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A QX driver moaning about the petrol consumption of a big petrol engine?
;)
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A QX driver moaning about the petrol consumption of a big petrol engine? ;)
No, a former QX owner... It was not actually too bad for a large auto, but then I was doing very little town driving. Mind you, what I spent in petrol I saved in repairs because in all the time I had it, it needed not one single repair. Just routine servicing.
I currently have a N/A 2007 Impreza. It has the four-cam engine, which although it likes to rev is actually decently economical (currently averaging 31mpg in 'mixed' driving and hits 36-38mpg on A-road/motorway runs). I'm very impressed with the Impreza and a Legacy 3.0R/SpecB would be a very tempting next car, but I dont think I could make a case for the running costs and potential repair bills out of warranty (unlikely though that may be). Lets see what kind of a reputation the diesel Legacy has in two years time.
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I'm very tempted with a 2.8 quattro early A6 for £500 which seems to be the going rate on eBay for my next motor. When a tank of petrol costs 20% of the value of the car...
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...and the insurance about twice the value of the car no doubt!
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2.8V6s are prone iirc to very expensive headwork.
The car market reminds me of 1972-74. (or rather it will go that way). Jaguar nearly went bust as sales halved and big cars were unsaleable as petrol prices doubled.
When you look at the cost of 4 new tyres on a quattro etc. You can be sure at £500 all maintenance costing over £5 will have been omitted or bodged.. probbly running on remoulds etc.
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