Its not price to chage you worry about, but approach it from a different angle.
Its dealers profit you look at. He is there to make money. From all, some, or one part of the deal. Be it profit on the trade in, profit on the new car (or manufacturers bonus), or a bonus on the finance. Some part of the deal has to make him money.
Some parts of the deal are easy money makers (the new car, the finance) that require nothing more than paperwork so the dealer is prepared to drop those margins, some parts require work (like the trade in) to make the money, so they get less flexibility.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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ah but...
Dealer selling car for £15,000 givng profit of £2,000
So;
gets £15,000 cash gets £2,000 profit.
gets £15,000 on finance gets £2,000 profit + £200 commission
gets trade in - £15,000 for sale = £5,000 trade-in & £10,000 cash
sells trade-in for £6,000 therefore effectively got £16,000 for original car = £3,000 profit [albeit with extra work]
So, a good trade-in that he can retail himself either in that or at another lot he also owns is worth good money to him and ought to get you a decent deal especially bearing in mind that he can sell the trade-in for more than you can sell it privately although will give you substantially less.
Now I know little or nothing about the motor trade so its just my opinion, but I suspect that very rarely does a good motor trader do a bad deal where his judgement was faulty and equally rarely does a punter get a trader down as low as he may have been prepared to go - even if their name is Dom.
I suspect they only do a bad deal on the occasions they buy an undetected dog.
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are you were you a pyramid seller No FM2R?
i could bandy figures around all day like that in a rented hotel room and get suckers to buy in,unfortunately in the real world you will find that unless you are very lucky pieces of jigsaw rarely come together as you would like and what really happens is that if you cannot get a 3rd party to underwrite the p/x you lose cash flow on a vehicle you cant shift it ends up going to auction where it gets damaged and bits nicked and then when you are really desperate to sell some trader gives you a damm good kicking and you sell it
guess what,you may as well have not done the original deal for all the hassle involved plus you made nowt .........
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>>you will find that unless you are very lucky pieces of jigsaw rarely come together as you would like and what really happens is that if you cannot get a 3rd party to underwrite the p/x you lose cash flow on a vehicle you cant shift it ends up going to auction where it gets damaged and bits nicked and then when you are really desperate to sell some trader gives you a damm good kicking and you sell it
I'm sure all of that is absolutely true. My example only applies where the vehicle to be part exchanged is something that you felt able to retail yourself rather than pass on to an underwriter - which seemed possibly the case here.
By belief remains unaltered that successful dealers rarely if ever negotiate a bad deal and rarely if ever get pushed down as far as they would have been prepared to go.
As for pyramid sales, then no I wasn't ever. But I would have made serious money at it were it not for the fact that I shy just short of conning people out of their money for no received value.
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middle of july as well ,kids off school soon ,everyones on holiday or about to,so the dealers company that underwrote the nissan will probably not really want it so just offer a low spewing bid (as we call it in the trade)
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If you think it's worth more than his offer, then do the work, get a better price, and go back with the wonga.
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Sell the Xtrail privately - Auto trader / Local rag
Then go back and get a better Subaru price for no trade-in.
Values of Subaru Legacy & Outbacks drop like a stone over the first 1/2 & 3 years according to the magazines - value only maybe 30% if you sell after 3 years and say 36,000 mls
However try buying one - say 12 mths/2 yrs old and the Subaru dealer still wants top dollar - 55%+ after 3 years and say 36,000 mls
Subaru garages are having their usual clear out July/August as their 2007 models are only a few weeks away. Tribeca due in 2 mths as well.
Motorpoint had some Legacys and Outbacks a few weeks ago - try them
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massey, it's a 2.5 SVE petrol auto.
Falkirk Bairn, like you I had come to the conclusion that the heavily depreciated cheap Subaru is a bit of a myth, particularly at main dealers. That is why I was exploring the possibility of a deal on a new 'old' model.
Incidentally, the car I was looking at is a 3.0Rn auto which has been superceded by the SpecB. I was offered £1250 discount on a new SpecB, plus the manufacturer's promotional offer of £3000 of petrol vouchers to be spent by 31/12/07. This might in fact be a better deal, but I don't like the idea of paying nearly list with my own hard-earned.
HectorG
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You don't state the year/mileage but with petrol prices and negative coverage large petrol 4x4's are struggling a bit. Combine that with a slow general market as everyone goes on holiday and the trade in offer might not be that bad.
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pd
Forgot to mention age. It's 2004 54 reg.
Thanks to all for the replies. I am just off to test a SpecB. Will report back later
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Using Glass's Guide I make a 2004 54 reg Nissan X-Trail 2.5 auto SVE with 23,000 miles to be:
Excellent £13,100 (the figure the Subaru dealer first used)
Average £11,800
Below Average £10,100
I don't think that the Subaru dealer is trying to make up his margin on your part-ex. If he is offering you £11,000 after having it underwritten then in all probability he was only offered £11,000 by the underwriting dealer.
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Figures from CAP (2004/54), Clean condition:
Miles:
10k: 13000
20K: 12300
30K: 11600
To add to that, a couple of recent auction prices obtained:
2.5 SVE 2003/03 45k £8650 (92% of CAP Clean)
2.5 SVE 2005/55 7k £13350 (89% of CAP Clean)
If you can pick up a 2005/55 with 7k for £13350 there isn't a lot of reason for a dealer to pay £13000 for a 2004/54 with 23k.
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Just to add, if X-Trails are averaging about 90% of book price at auction, 90% of 12300 is £11070. Looks like the offer was pretty much bang on the money to me.
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Went for test drive of Legacy 3.0 SpecB manual yesterday (no auto was available).
Great performance and nice gearbox, but I found the ride much firmer than the 3.0Rn Sports Tourer I tried the other day. I think I would find it wearing after a few miles on poor B-roads.
I then tried an Outback 3.0Rn auto immediately after the SpecB. The difference was very noticeable. The Outback soaked up everything but at the expense of a 'bouncier' ride. I think it suited the smooth engine/gearbox combination much better, but I am in my late 50's!
They would not give me a trade-in price on my X-Trail until they have phoned a number of traders who will underwrite it. I will post the result in due course.
Many thanks to all of you who posted. Very useful advice!
HectorG
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Hector
I traded in my X-Trail for an Outback 2.5SE auto nearly three years ago.
Didn't like the X-Trail despite all the rave reviews and at the time I wasn't bothered about the deprecation. I actually got £15k for the X-Trail with 10,000 miles on it (it was the original Diesel Sport - not the 2.2) as they were all the rage at the time and dealers had queues for s/hand X-trails.
The Subaru has been a delight, still feels new and I am looking forward to a drive to southern Brittany in a wonderfully relaxing and capable car.
Have you tried a 2.5 Outback ? - enough power, good ride and generally reasonable mpg (as long as you don't just nip round town in it). I'm sure there must be several in the Subaru network.....
Jdc
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jdc
I drove a 2.5 Outback a couple of weeks ago with 10,000 miles on the clock. To be quite honest , I thought it was very rough compared with the 3.0. It may have been that particular car as it seemed to be noisy - wind and tyres, or maybe it had other issues.
I have fallen in love with that 6 cylinder boxer engine - it is so smooth. Ihave not driven one for more than about 10 miles, but they are a revelation after the ponderous handling of the X-Trail. Also, I feel the build quality of the Subarus is so much better. Nissan are probably suffering from their partnership with Renault.
BTW did you consider a Sports Tourer and test drive one of these. I cannot decide, particularly as the nearly new Outbacks seem so much more expensive than the 3.0Rn Sports Tourer. Also, the nearly new 2.5 Outback is not a lot cheaper than the 3.0.
If I buy a 3.0 Outback or tourer I dread to think what it will be worth after 3 years. Maybe I will have to keep it long term. Which do you think will be the better long term prospect re depreciation?
HectorG
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Hector
Surprised at your comment about the 2.5 being rough - mine's as smooth as a peach with 25,000 miles on it and I certainly wouldn't call it noisy - mind you, my other car is a Fabia VrS which is relatively noisy so the Outback seems silent in comparison. My Outback reminds me of the 2.5 4-cam Estate I had several years ago which was virtually silent when you came to a stop .....
Build quality, as you point out, is significantly better on the Subaru. I've had seven Subaru over the years and they have all handled the miles well and proving to be very tough vehicles. Also, on a thread a while back,one of the more knowledgable contributors (Aprila I think ?) highlighted the impressive engineering integrity of the Subaru. Not being an engineer myself, I can't comment from that perspective, but there is a general air of the vehicles being built in a totally different way to most of, say, the German marques. There is an attention to detail, a lightness of touch that gives Subaru their uniqueness.
I did consider the Sports Tourer, but the extra ground clearance of the Outback (and higher profile tyres) is what I required as I go to a lot of muddy rugby grounds, fell races, hill runs etc., so the Outback has significant benefits for me.
As for depreciation, forget it, it's not worth bothering about as you will take a hit, but so what. Just enjoy your purchase and revel in the quiet satisfaction that you have purchased a car for using, not for what it will be worth in 3 years time (having said that, I think the 2.5 would hold a higher percentage of it's price as it is significantly better on fuel and a couple of insurance groups lower !).
My Outback is now coming up for 3 years old (it was one of the first 'new' type) and it still feels like new. It is not doing many miles due to recent work changes and my wife just goes a few miles to work each day in it, so realistically it could be with us for many years to come - it certainly feels like it will last . If I traded it in, I would only get something like £12k so it's definitely worth keeping for as long as possible.
jdc
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