I agree with HJ that regular oil changes are the cheapest way to ensure the longevity of an engine. Not being a fan of Audi's variable service interval, I booked my car in for it's first oil change at 5,000 miles (1.9tdi) this week.
As the car also had an airbag fault (warning light on all the time) the dealer said they couldn't do a while you wait service. With no loan cars, I stuck my bike in the back and pedalled 9 miles home. No sooner had I got back home, the phone rang, "Your car is ready". I pedalled 9 miles back (all in the pouring rain) to be met with a bill for £157 for the oil/filter change. Querying the amount, I was shown labour of one hour at £90 plus VAT "we need to remove a large panel underneath, sir".
I think it's criminal that a main dealer has the cheek to charge such an amount for a simple oil change and I wished I'd taken it to my favourite VAG independant around the corner in Hersham!
To make matters worse, the invoice showed "clean and reset airbag plug" when my dealer mates at Audi Germany told me the airbag fault was a common issue solved by a connector replacement. A mile down the road, the airbag light came on again. Back to the dealer where the service receptionist said the fault was unusual but the techie with the laptop plugged in outside said he'd had a couple that week with the fault and they were nil stock of the plugs.
Audi's are great until you need to go near a dealer.
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Surely you must have asked them for a quote beforehand for the service?
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I don't think anyone would have expected £157 to change oil.
I went to National for the £20 oil change and also took along my own filter and sump washer as I guessed that they would not have any in for a Subaru. They refused to use my parts and also refused to look at the car as according to the technician, a suspension member had to be removed to get to the oil filter. What rubbish!
I went to an independent garage and they showed me how easy it was. In the under tray, was a simply flap which unscrewed to reveal the sump plug and filter. The flap even said 'oil change here'! The technician even said - what well designed cars these Subarus are.
Total cost was £15 labour and 5 litres oil - £30.
So Audi have ripped you off and have lost another customer. Welcome to world of the German prestige car.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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> Surely you must have asked them for a quote beforehand
David, as Espada says, there is no way I assumed I would be charged such an amount. I didn't ask for a quote because the task was so simple and I made the assumption I would be paying through the nose for the dealers stamp. I knew it was going to be a multiple of what I usually pay at my local lube centre and had misguided faith that a main dealer would be "steep" not "criminal" in the amount he charged for a small job.
You're right, I'm not going to that dealer again.
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<< I was shown labour of one hour at£90 plus VAT "we need to remove a large panel underneath, sir".
They gave you an explanation, and were civil enough to address you as "sir". What more could they have done?
If their hourly labour charge is £90 plus VAT then surely that is what it is. This will be based on their direct labour costs, plus overheads which can be tremendous depending on the operating costs of that particular site, plus their profit, etc. etc. I've no doubt that if it was possible to discuss this with their accountant then he would be able to justify the charge.
Their other customers must, in general, be satisfied with their charges or the company would go out of business.
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Regardless of the labour, he's been charged over £50 for 5 litres of oil. I call that a rip-off.
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he's been charged over £50 for 5 litres of oil
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cheap at main dealer rates. high street prices for the audi specified long-life oil are £10 or more a litre.
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I wished I'd taken it to my favourite VAG independant around the corner in Hersham!
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or a further one mile away, you could have tried the audi dealer who shares half the site with aston-martin-lagonda.
anyway, it seems you paid the appropriate price for your circumstances. free world. you exercised your choice to have an unneccessary service unnecessarily at a main dealership and made the wrong assumptions. can't really blame the dealer, can you?
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Some people don't pay that much for a car, never mind an oil and filter change...:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Apparently it's cheaper to take a trip to France (even including the fare) than get a 'prestige' car serviced here.
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"or a further one mile away, you could have tried the audi dealer who shares half the site with aston-martin-lagonda."
If they have the same service staff as they did when it was an Austin ROver dealership I wouldnt go within 500 miles of the place.
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cant remember seeing long life oil thats less than a tenner a ltr. do dealers work on the basis of minimum 1 hour,if so it seems about right for a dealer service.
are audi near the top for dealer hourly charges and ford at the bottom!!
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My local ford is 90 quid an hour labour.
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I have the Audi service time data and the 'book time' for changing the engine oil and filter on an Audi 1.9 TDi PD engine is 0.5 hours (30 minutes). Knowing this engine, I think that's a bit generous and a reasonably experienced technician would do it in 20 minutes.
Regardless of whether the customer checked the price or 'got a quote' beforehand, the price of £157 still represents a rip off. I would go back to the dealer and ask to see the 'book time'. You should get a refund of £45+VAT, unless the dealer pulls the '1 hour minimum labour' scam.
I am old enough to remember when England was a country of generally honest people. My father started in the motor trade at the end of the war and I never knew him to rip anyone off. Most of his peers were the same. There *were* rouges and villains in the trade, but most tried to make a fast buck and soon went out of business. No one wants to earn money the honest way these days and the 'property boom' has undermined the work ethic.
Many in the trade are poorly trained (proper training costs money) - the managers are on a bonus system and do whatever they have to, to meet targets. Customers are treated with contempt and called names behind their backs. How long before its £200 an hour in London? Keep away from the main dealers and give your money to the independent guy who does a good job.
Just a word of warning - some 'independents' have now been bought by the dealer groups. I know of two 'independents' (a BMW and a VW) who are actually owned by main dealerships.
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If they have the same service staff as they did when it was an Austin ROver dealership I wouldnt go within 500 miles of the place.
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they were smart enough to ditch rover long before anyone else saw the impending disaster. now they have dithced vw but expanded the audi and aston-martin business.
incidentally, colin got away cheaply with £100 an hour.
according to warranty-direct report of 2 weeks ago, see
www.warrantydirect.co.uk/press_article31.html?cart...5
Mechanics on course to charge £200 per hour by 2008 (14/06/05)
By 2008, the British motorist could be paying more than £200 per hour to get their car fixed at a franchised dealer according to research by independent automotive warranty specialist, Warranty Direct.
During the past twelve months, labour rates have risen nationally by an average of 4 percent, but with the most expensive dealers increasing by 10 percent, some are on course to charge an astonishing £256 per hour by the end of the decade.*1 ........... ........ .......
Table Illustrating The Maximum Hourly Labour Rat Charged By A Franchised Dealer in 2005
- AUDI £146.88
beaten only by BMW at £158.63
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The oil change thread has been done to death, but changing the very expensive Audi spec fully synthetic oil every 5,000 miles really is a false economy, even if you do it yourself. If you don't want to have the variable servicing go on to the 10,000 miles service intervals, you will then save money as the oil in this service is cheaper. Explain this to the dealership and they will use the cheaper lower spec oil.
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Just paid £93 for an oil service on my 156.
Did not think that it was too bad.
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Bet you got more done that an oil and filter change though. It would have included an inspection of other parts of the vehicle.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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My first variable service was just carried out, at a total cost of £268.06 on my A3 2.0TDI. It did 17000 miles before needing the service, a total additional cost of 1.58p per mile in running cost. It costs me ~9p a mile in Diesel, and about the same in insurance. Depreciation over the first year of ownership has been about £2500 roughly. That means a cost of 20p a mile. Total cost - 40p a mile to run what is a relatively premium brand car. Hardly bank breaking, and a lot better than I was expecting.
By contrast a £157 service at 5000 miles means a cost of 3.14p a mile, much more substantial. I'm not sure what people have against long life servicing, lubricants today are vastly superior to those of yesteryear. If you applied the same logic to the cars themselves we'd all be driving model T Fords still in case a more recent car broke down. Given the different properties of long life oil compared to the standard oils, it's not suprising they cost more and last longer. I've seen much dirtier oil come out of engines running standard oil on a fixed interval than out of a long life oil car. For the record my 5l of oil cost me £59 + VAT = £69 or £13.87 a litre. The last litre of top up oil I bought cost me £12.90 from Halfords. I don't think the £4.70 for a filter is exceptional either.
Can't get something for nothing, and when there's much bigger costs in running a car, why try and cut a few fractions of a penny per mile and void a warranty? Espada is right, far more is done than an oil change. The ECU will have been interrogated to check for faults or intermittent systems, tyres, brakes and steering will all have been checked, along with wipers. The Aircon filter will have been renewed and the car should have also been fully valeted.
Maybe my local Audi dealer is above average, but the other dealer I have experience with (Listers, Coventry) has also been nothing but superb, they didn't even charge me to align my headlight when I took it in for alignment following replacement, I got told not to worry about it as it only took them ten minutes. That's service, and that's why in all probability I will buy another Audi.
Regards
Chris
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In reply to Chris:-
Dividing any cost by a big number will make it seem less. Overcharge is an overcharge whichever way you look at it. Anyone daft enough to think £157 for an oil change is good value must have more money than sense.
A regular oil service on an Audi does not include interrogation of the ECU (this is not done at any service unless the MIL is on, and then its done at extra cost unless under warranty).
They might check wipers, tyres etc. in the hope of selling you something, but it is not part of the service. I have all Audi dealer service schedules and book times in front of me - their services are fluids, filters and checks. Pretty basic stuff which requires modest skills to undertake, for which they are charging premium labour rates.
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What a ripoff! I had the same sort of £90 an hour experience with the local Mercedes main dealer. I now go round the corner to the local garage who are making a business out of servicing BMWS Mercs and Audis at a fraction of the main dealer price. A local Volvo dealer was advertising cut price servicing for older vehicles such as my good ladies 480 but when you scrutinsed the service offered it was check this and that which anyone could do and carry out an oil change.
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I have my merc serviced at thbe dealer for the stamp. Anything else gets done round the corner for a third the price, but does not affect the 'FMBSH' caper.
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