This has been nagging me for ages, but especially since I bought my old Volvo S80 (recently sold) and James May wrote about it in last weeks DTelegraph motoring section.
For years car have been improving is all areas except one - ride quality. Cars now have much wider and lower profile tyres and stiffer suspensions - for what? The whole of Europe is more congested than ever, we drive slower and worse maintained roads than ever. So why do we need cars which are capable of going much faster than ever and therefore need the road holding and handling characteristics to suit the potential speed?
Without getting into details lets think about the cars which buck the trend. Those which do have good handling, but also provide the comfort of an armchair; so that at urban speeds especially, road imperfections, humps and potholes etc are merely noticed slightly rather than really felt. Vehicles made only in the last oohhhh say eight years...
I'll go first.
Subaru Forester Mk1 (not drive Mk2 yet). Father just bought a five year old non turbo model. Incredibly good ride and and handling. Just ignores most surface imperfections, that my Volvo would magnify 100 times.
any others
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Citroen Xantia
Citroen C5
Both handle well and will corner with pretty flat with loads of grip and provide an excellent ride quality.
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My old Peugeot 406 was exceptionally good in terms of comfortable ride and don't tell my wife I said this, but the Peugeot 106 our daughter uses is much better than her brand new Micra!
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Ride quality is much more than just the car's ability to iron out the bumps, not quite so important on today's smother road surfaces, despite poor maintenance in some areas.
The older cars may have had softer suspension but body roll was more apparant, something I find more uncomfortable than a bit of patter over the ripples.
Having changed to a decent sized saloon after years of hatches have brought home to me how much nicer a ride you experience with a longer wheelbase to smooth your progress. As for stiffer suspension, I would rather have a car with stable handling than one with a softer ride.
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Peugeot 306.
SWMBO's 1.8 SR Sedan manages to pull off the trick of giving a wonderfully compliant ride with pin sharp reflexes and leech-like grip. All this on skinny and relatively high profile 175/65TR14 tyres.
On bumpy surfaces like the B-roads that abound in our neck of the woods it is nothing short of amazing, with apex accuracy down to the last millimetre, steering wheel feedback explaining exactly what's going, and yet all the time riding serenely like a magic carpet. All this on a car that was just over two and a half grand to buy, and costs buttons to run. Of course in terms of build quality, refinement, and outright punch it doesn't come anywhere near our V70 2.4T, but if I'm nipping over to my brother who lives 15 miles of entertaining B-road away, I take the humble Pug every time.
The only time the plot goes to pot is taking A-road sweepers at very high speed. The previously pin-sharp reflexes become nervous and over light, but then the times the car gets driven like this are once in a blue moon. For real world driving, Peugeot got it spot on.
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The best riding car for smoothing potholes, etc. for me was a 1989 Nissan Bluebird, no kidding!
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Ah yes, older cars with higher profile tyres al;ways seem to ride better.
Whilst it is true that larger diameter wheels (not lower profile tyres) and longer wheelbase do improve the ride, the Volvo S80 showed that on 16" wheels and 55 section tyres (I think) the ride over imperfections was dreadful.
I disagree that good ride = more roll. And even if there is more roll, at the speeds I do in urban driving, I couldn't roll an egg on the dashboard, let alone feel anything more significant in the suspension.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I doubt that you'll find anything much closer to an armchair on wheels than an XJ8 on 'touring' suspension and standard wheels.
Kevin...
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But those old Nissans had terrible steering, perhaps when they were called Datsuns...
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Most people will cringe at the thought of owning one but I thought The old Austin Ambassador was superb for comfort, soft wide seats, hydrolastic suspension and it did hold the road quite well for such a large car (and you could get the three piece suite in the back).
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French cars in general used to roll a lot as a corollary to the comfy ride, but recently Renault, Peugeot and Citroen seem to have struck a better compromise.
The best ride/handling mix I've tried recently was the Jaguar X-type. If they could put a 6-cylinder diesel engine in there with an automatic option, the estate in particular would have all-round talent that would be be hard to beat.
The Audi remains excellent but there's a bit of me that would still like to buy British (yes I know that ultimately the profits go to Ford in the USA but at least they're built here).
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Ford Focus Ghia
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L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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I'll second that L'escargot.
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Adam
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Agree with the Focus - but no-one has mentioned Rolls Royce/Bentley - speed bumps what are they?
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Any Cadillac or a Lincoln Town Car. I have yet to ride in any car that is a smooth and comfortable as those two
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Please tell me your joking about Ford Focus!
Having owned one, it is best described as thrashy at the very least! The appaualing ride was one of the key factors in me getting rid of mine.
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Peugeot 407 - Even better than the 406 IMO
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Definitely not my Corsa. You can even feel the difference between different road surfaces.
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Or my first love, a Reliant Regal. You could tell which tyre had the most dust on it.
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Near the bottom of the list for bumpy road ride comfort would be the Mini Cooper on its standard run flats.
Only saving graces are that ours isn't 17" with Sports Plus suspension. Amazing handling. Amazing backache.
The Xantia took some beating for comfort, but the prize in my experience goes to the Jaguar XJ8 I'm sometimes lucky enough to be ferried around in.
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Lee
MINI adventure in progress
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Vauxhall Omega 2.2 DTi.
Perfect for a long distance cruise.Absolutely smoothens out the road beneath it and youll be as fresh as a daisy even after clocking 300 miles at a stretch.
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any car with a long wheel base and possibly RWD will have a decent ride.
BMW and Alfas with their sporting bias generally have poor ride comfort.
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Had an Alfa 75 once and, yes, it had a terrible ride but it did have good seats. The 156 is much better, if not great. I was always led to believe that BMWs had a very supple ride but I wouldn't know, as I have never been in one. Peugeot were always the masters of the good ride, combine with excellent handling in my experience. I had two 309s for a total of seven years and they were a fine example of this quality. I once took a 605 for a test drive and that was wonderful.
As regulars to this forum may know, my wife and I are now converted to Citroens. We were out in the C5 last night and I am becoming more impressed with the ride in this car with every passing day. The seats are also very good in this car, with a lot more legroom for the driver than in a Xantia (which doesn't have great seats either).
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I was always led to believe that BMWs had a very supple ride
No. The first thing that I noticed was the firmer ride, although that may have been because my previous car was a Pug 405.
I don't understand the link between firmness and discomfort, though. The BMWs that I have driven, the last two with sport suspension, have all be exceptionally comfortable. The current one is by far the hardest sprung, but on Sunday I got in at the Champs Elysee and stepped out in Buckinghamshire fresh as a daisy, as they say. Whereas in previous cars, anything over two hours would be backbreaking.
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Ah yes machika, the Peugeot 605. I had one for 12 months. It was wonderful in every way, especially the ride, handling and the great combo of DT and Auto.
Until, the cam belt snapped and £1500 later the car was a dog. It was 10% less economical, much noisier and constantly gave me problems, so I got rid and lost £4500 in 12 months. I'd love a reliable one though.....
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I would say Laguna and Rover 75.
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I just sold my 2001-X BMW 520i SE and bought a 2001-51 Citroen C5 2.0 HPI Exclusive and the first time we drove over speed bumps my wife commented "It doesn't ride them as smoothly as the BMW!".
In fact the ride on the C5 is a fair bit harder than I expected (and no I don't have it in "Sport" mode)!
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Citroens with a hard ride? The world has gone mad.
However, I see a few posible solutions:
The first is a technical one, to have all new cars hard-wired with a 70mph speed-limiter. That way they won't need race-car suspension.
The second is a social solution, and it really looks more promising: to have, as part of the type approval process, all new cars compulsorily labelled in very large letters on the dasboard and on the rear with a description of their ride comfort
Real cars (i.e. those with a comfortable ride) would be labelled "professional suspension". Those with a harsher ride would be labelled "broken suspension", while those that ride like skateboards would get flashing letters saying "poser's boneshaker suspension".
Boneshaker sales would dry up rapidly :)
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The second is a social solution, and it really looks more promising: to have, as part of the type approval process, all new cars compulsorily labelled in very large letters on the dasboard and on the rear with a description of their ride comfort
Already happens, NW. Just two differences:
(i) there is a different language and nomenclature, albeit one that is understood by everyone else
(ii) those nasty horrible capitalist people have butted in and made sure that the cars on sale are described in ways that are desirable to those who wish to buy them. Funnily enough, they found that this made people more likely to buy them....
Reminds me of the lady who refused to buy a car because it said "XL" on its backside.
a 70mph speed-limiter.
Three thoughts:
(i) European roads
(ii) The EU Commission
(iii) a Black and Decker
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>> a 70mph speed-limiter. Three thoughts: (i) European roads (ii) The EU Commission (iii) a Black and Decker
you planning to exceed 70mph on your way to the EU Commission, while driving a Black & Decker? way to go :)
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I just sold my 2001-X BMW 520i SE and bought a 2001-51 Citroen C5 2.0 HPI Exclusive and the first time we drove over speed bumps my wife commented "It doesn't ride them as smoothly as the BMW!". In fact the ride on the C5 is a fair bit harder than I expected (and no I don't have it in "Sport" mode)!
A C5 has a firmer ride than a Xantia but it is by no means hard. I have driven a number of them now and I haven't found any of them to be hard. On good surfaces the ride is probably better than that of a Xantia.
I was wondering recently if the spheres on a C5 are susceptible to gas leakage, as they definitely are on the Xantia and BX. We had our Xantia's spheres fitted with valves, so that the pressure could be checked periodically and the spheres repressurised if necessary. It is much cheaper than replacing the spheres.
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There is a big difference in perceived ride comfort as experienced by the driver, and his passengers.
The driver appreciates cornering ability, and has the steering wheel to hold and brace himself with. He knows when corners and bumps are coming up, and is in my observation able to drive with less regard for ride comfort. His poor passengers however simply have to sit and endure.
Try the old chaufeur's trick of driving with a glass of water balanced on the bonnet.
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This may be more telling re: the difference in ride compliance between my BMW and Citroen - in the BMW (and the Focus I had before it) the clasp on my watch strap would always rattle when cruising with the vibration through the steering wheel. In the Citroen, it doesn't! Yes I know you're waiting for me to say it - all the trim rattles instead b********!
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Errm - since when has boom boom been a swear word?!?
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Rover - Yes, Rover P5B!
Many people forget that before it's absorbtion into BL that Rover was a manufacturer of luxury motor cars.
Although occasionally referred to as the Poor man's Rolls Royce it is said that when RR's qulaity control went downhill that the Rover was the smart man's choice.
In 25 years of driving and riding in cars the only thing that I have ever been in that felt more like a limo was........ a limo!
The P5B (which is the V8 as opposed to the P5 which was the 6 cyl) is smooth, comfortable and quick.
Thirsty though at 18-20mpg otherwise I'd drive it all of the time!
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We have two Citroens, no rattles from either (one is 10 years old).
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The ride of my 1982 Ford Granada Ghia is pretty good over bumps due to its lwb and fairly soft suspension setup, one of the comfiest cars I've driven and has very comfortable seats. Much comfier than my 2003 Astra and the Focus I had before that which are really hard!
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I've been seconded to Silicon Valley for 4 months by my company and presently have a Chevrolet Impala as a rental car. This is the size of an E Class but with incredibly soft suspension, so it sort of wallows over the (quite badly) potholed North Californian roads without you really noticing, but handles like a boat. It reminds me of a Ford Granada I owned a long time ago except the brakes are even worse.
Best riding car I've ever driven was a Merc S-Class with air suspension which I got as a rental car upgrade last year in Germany. Totally awesome in just about every respect. Not only did it ride well, it also handled well. Where's that lottery coupon...
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An update 18 months later....
We now have (as you will know) a Mk 1 Forester, basic model and a Mk2 Forester Turbo. The difference is that the Mk1 is about 2.5cm (max) lower but has 70 section tyres. The Mk2 has stiffer suspension, has a ride height of 200mm and has 60 section tyres.
I have been driving Mk1 this week. The ride is superb. What does this tell you?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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As I grow older and we get more speed humps and the raods become busier, my tastes are leaning to comfort...
madf
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Mercedes S class with air suspension and Lexus LS430 with air suspension have pillow soft ride quality combined with good handling for their size. Nothing else comes close for ride quality apart from some American cars.
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I've got to say that on my bumpy farm track the Legacy with its low profile tyres is proving a lot less accomodating than the old Audi. But I've got a few tonnes of crusher run being delivered on Saturday to fill the pot holes - so that's my w/end well and truly cream crackered....
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There you are NowWheels being evil and mischievous again... Peugeot 404 saloon in 1980, five or six up, doing 80mph over a washboard dirt road, best ride I've ever experienced but just as well nothing sudden took place.
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Renault 20,very comfortable and went suprisingly well for a 2 litre auto.Also had a 2CV van which went very well down the rough track where I lived at the time.
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You will see from my name that I am not biased, the Rover75 is one of the best riding/cruising cars around and the seats are superb just keep with the standard 15" 65 section tyres - I id'nt !
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I would have to agree that the Rover 75 is one of the best mainstream cars for a comfy ride and good handling. Laguna isnt bad either!
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NOT the 306 in DTurbo variant! Every road imperfection gets sent through to me!
Handles pretty well though, for a big diesel engine in a piddly hatchback. Passive rear steering apparently.
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Nobody has mentioned the C5 for comfort. Its my choice!
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Second post in thread by Quinny
"Citroen Xantia
Citroen C5
Both handle well and will corner with pretty flat with loads of grip and provide an excellent ride quality."
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Phil
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