I am planning to buy a new car in the next 3 months or so.
I need a reasonably large saloon for relatively low mileage motoring in the UK for most of the time, but with a lot of long distance trips in Europe (France, Germany, Scandinavia, Austria and Switzerland) thrown in also. It will need to be able to take 3-4 people with a lot of luggage, and I don't want to be put off having a long weekend in Europe by the thought of the driving, so it must be quiet and comfortable. It will be driven hard, good acceleration is a must, and I am not prepared to consider anything less than a 3 litre petrol 6. I am planning to keep it for 5-6 years. Total cost of ownership is a concern; petrol consumption less important.
The following are on my shortlist (all are old shape saloons)
BMW 530 petrol
BMW 735
Mercedes E320 petrol
Jaguar XJ8
Essential:
Automatic
Petrol
Leather
CD stack
Ideal:
Parking sensors
Xenon lights
Climate control
I am planning to buy from The Great Trade Centre, and can just about get any of the above within my £10000-12000 budget. Main dealer approved used cars are well out of this budget.
I would appreciate any advice people have to offer, in particular:
Which car would be best suited to the intended use?
Does anyone have experience of GTC, especially with any of the above vehicles?
What are the above vehicles like to own and drive?
Is the luggage space / rear seat space in the XJ really as appalling as everyone says (that alone could rule it out).
The more I think about it, the more suitable the 735 seems, especially in terms of comfort and space. Will it cost a fortune in servicing and repairs? Significantly more than a 530?
Many thanks,
Nick.
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My father has an S-reg XJ8. There is no way you could go away on holiday with 3 passengers plus driver and carry luggage for two weeks, no way. Fantastic car that it is. It's not so much the real leg room as the boot, it is truly tiny. On the other hand he has a full size alloy spare (225/50), other versions may have more space.
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>>My father has an S-reg XJ8. There is no way you could go away >>on holiday with 3 passengers plus driver and carry luggage >>for two weeks, no way. Fantastic car that it is. It's not so >>much the real leg room as the boot, it is truly tiny. On the >>other hand he has a full size alloy spare (225/50), other >>versions may have more space.
Unless of course you only needed toothbrushes each!! MInd you give them a ggod charge before you leave because there's no space for chargers!!
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I wouldn't touch a 735 - I speak from personal experience of 7-series.
Your choice is really a 'no brainer' - get the Mercedes.
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Have you considered the S type Jag? A colleague has just bought a new one - 2.5 SE version - had a drive this week, only around town, but I would imagine on a long cruise the miles would soon pass. Plenty of space for four and the boot is huge.
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The last of the Lexus LS400's are also excellent buys at the moment. You should be able to get a 2000 model with about 60k on the clock with Xenons and Sat Nav for 15-18k. A much better car than all of those on your list (except perhaps the 735) in terms of long distant comfort.
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Nick,
Did you consider a Lexus LS400, quite affordable s/hand...although none at GTC at the mo...
CF
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Just noticed your 12k budget - which should still just about get you one of the facelifted Mk IV LS400's circa 1997-1998.
They all have Xenons, climate, satnav but PDC was a option.
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Or indeed a Lexus GS, which is cheaper than an LS but still would fulfil your criteria. It's smaller than the LS but still a good big car.
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Why petrol?
Cos he prefers it? Some of us do.
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Saab 9-5 Aero
Loads of space, plenty of poke and easily within budget.
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I'd go for the XJ8 but then I'm biased, I've got one that I'm very pleased with. It's smooth, quiet, comfortable and fairly nippy when asked.
The boot is long and wide but fairly shallow. Enough to get 4 mid-size samsonites on their sides or loads of soft-sided holdalls/suit carriers.
"Unless of course you only needed toothbrushes each!! MInd you give them a ggod charge before you leave because there's no space for chargers!!"
I suppose this depends on how big your toothbrush is?
You're best bet is to give them all a test drive and see which one you enjoy most.
Kevin...
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I suppose this depends on how big your toothbrush is?
I suppose this depends on how big your mouth is...Ho Ho!
Seriously though I would go for the Lexus (400)
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I'd have the 530 from that list personally. But have you seen how cheap Audi A8/S8's are in comparison.
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How about a Honda Legend?
3 Litre V6.
Big car/spacious, high spec, reliable. I've seen several within your price range.
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£12k on a Leg-end would be a very bad buy. It's cheap but it has another £12k to lose.
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£12k on a Leg-end would be a very bad buy. It's cheap but it has another £12k to lose.
He's planning to keep it 5-6 years; none of the cars mentioned are likely to be worth much after that time, so depreciation is not a big issue and he's likely to get a newer car for his money.
Legend is a great car - smooth, quiet and mega-reliable. Could be a excellent choice.
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Didn't notice the 6 year thing. Definately an S8 then!
S-Class Merc hasn't been mentioned either.
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Definitely Audi S8 for this money. Beat that chronic depreciation. Huge, 340bhp, amazing looks, only downside is running costs which will be high whatever you go for out of these.
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Thank you all very much for your input. Greatly appreciated.
I have to say that my priorities have been reversed by this afternoon's dealer visits. BMW have moved from 1st to third place owing to the appallingly slack and frankly downright rude service I received at the hands of their Cambridge BMW dealer (I shall actually be complaining to BMW UK tomorrow, it was so bad).
Meanwhile, Jaguar have moved from 3rd to 1st place thanks to the truly excellent, polite service from Marshall Cambridge this pm. A delight to visit them. It was also fun caning it around the fens in an XJ8 - it really moves in sport mode; not bad considering it is so big and just 240bhp.
This turn of events has surprised no-one more than me. Those Germans had better take note, and fast!
Nick.
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Nick
My experience exactly! I was in the market for a BMW some years ago, till I went to Cambridge BMW - they couldn't be bothered. By contrast Cambridge Saab (Histon) couldn't do enough to help, and later when I was buying a car for my wife, Marshalls Nissan were superb (and remained so all the time we had it).
By the way I now have a Passat W8, which fits your bill exactly. Might be worth a look.
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I just wonder how relevant dealer attitudes will look after you've had the car for two years and realize that it was the wrong choice. If you're not buying new, grit your teeth and ignore the dealers -- they are merely retailers and you don't need to go back to them unless they give you a warranty that locks you into them for servicing for the first year (check that out with the warranty company anyway).
The need to carry 3 or 4 people plus lots of luggage doesn't square with my perception of the Jag's cramped rear passenger space (unless it's a long-wheelbase version) and shallow boot, no matter how nice it may be to drive. Your continental jaunts might also suggest that you'd be better off with a German car in terms of the widespread availability of help in the event of a serious breakdown.
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I can't imagine choosing a car based on how nice a dealer was, especially as you aren't even planning to buy from a dealer. Comfortwise, the Jag wouldn't even be on the list (too cramped), from that list I would be after the E class or the 530. I also second the recomendation of a Lexus, but not the LS. The GS is more comfortable and should cost less. I know its not in the same league as the others but I find the VW Passat to be a very comfortable drive with lots of room.
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I'm afraid I'd have to disagree on the LS v GS argument. The GS has a inferior ride to the LS (although it is a bit more "sporty") and doesn't feel like a true luxury car like the LS.
The GS is a nice enough car and has many of the Lexus attributes but it costs almost as much to run as a LS and is nearly as big. It's cheaper to buy but for the price difference I'd be inclined to go for the "real thing".
I don't think I'd go for the Jag for the same reasons as the poster above. The XJ is a very old design and whilst its a nice enough car in the last few years of its life was falling behind badly in terms of comfort and refinement compared to the competition.
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From what I've heard, if you think it's expensive to maintain an MB or BMW, you ain't seen nothing until you start running a Lexus.
All things considered, I'd go for an MB E320 and I'd look seriously at the diesel. I'm biased, I know, being an MB owner, but when you figure in the spacious passenger cabin, ample luggage load capacity, reasonable running costs (especially non-dealer specialist servicing, which is scarce for the Lexus, I believe), pan-European support network, resale value, durability and not-unreasonable economy (especially the diesel, but I get 30 mpg from my petrol 320 on a long trip anyway), then it is hard to beat.
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I've run BMW's, Mercs and Lexus and I've found the Lexus by far the cheapest to run. Servicing isn't much more than a Corollla. However, on the rare occassion they do go wrong, Lexus and Toyota parts are not cheap and you're correct there isn't so much out of dealer support.
Mind you....replacing a ESP system or something similar on a Merc isn't exactly a bargain. None of these cars are cheap to fix if something major goes, particularly if it is something electrical (which it usually is).
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Ah, but Roger, nowt goes wrong with a Lexus. (Touch wood).
Routine stuff is comparable or cheaper than BMW prices I would think.
And the dealers (at least in my experience of Norwich and Cambridge) are in a league of their own, frankly - superb.
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Service parts for Mercs are cheap - but if you have to go to the dealer for non-routine items they are very expensive (as are BMW).
I fixed the climate control on a '96 S-class last summer and the parts were £1200 (ECU and a few clips etc.). The breakers know how much the new parts are so s/hand parts are not a great bargain. The evap went a few months later and that job was £1000. £2200 in one year to have a working ventilation system is a lot of money; you could probably buy an old Toyota Camry for that money and it would still last you a few years....;-)
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pd,
the current XJ is about as close to it's predecessors as a 911T is to a GT2. It looks vaguely similar but that's about it.
Kevin...
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How about a City Rover? The dealers are really terribly nice!!
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*grin*
Ok, what I MEAN is
If you are bonkers enough (like me) to buy a car at this end of the market, and are happy to pay the very high (lunatic) dealer prices, then you might as well choose a dealer network that is at least pleasant about it!
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An easy choice.
It simply HAS to be the E39 5 Series. It didn't get called 'close to perfect' and 'One of the finest cars in the world' by virtually every single respectable motoring magazine throughout its production life for nothing. Truely sensational cars.
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Also, what about the Touring variant of the 5 Series. Plenty of room for your luggage that way.
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The Audi A8 4.2 would be a natural choice. Extremely quiet and comfortable at speed, with loads of room inside and the biggest boot you have ever seen. Cruising at 100mph+ in France with no regard to fuel consumption, mine returned a whisker under 30mpg.
They seem to be able to cope with high miles (a friend's has passed 160k now) and even the 2.8 feels quick.
PB.
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