Wheelbase is the key to long distance comfort. In my humble. Before Brovid I used to drive to and from Milan four times a year to and from Cheshire. Nine hundred and something miles each way. Plus or minus 18 hours door to door including coffee/pee/lunch/fuel breaks as required.
Done it in all manner of vehicles from Mk1 Pandas, Escorts, Cortinas, Sierras,Merc 190s, Mondeos, Golf GTis, Volvo 850s, Volvo 940s, Rover 800s, BMW 3s and 5s even a Westfield a couple of times and latterly, Mercedes Es.
Without a shadow of doubt in my mind, the greater the distance between the front and back wheels, the waftier the ride.
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Wheelbase is the key to long distance comfort. In my humble.
That may be true in general terms, but a 2015 Honda Jazz (regardless of whether late 2nd gen or early 3rd) has a longer wheelbase than any rival other than the Renault Clio.
It also ignores the firmness of suspension itself. The OP mentions an Audi A5 he likes the look of, but going by the motoring press, Audi's were commonly derided for their ride being excessively firm (despite a lengthy wheelbase).
Before Brovid I used to drive to and from Milan four times a year to and from Cheshire. Nine hundred and something miles each way. Plus or minus 18 hours door to door including coffee/pee/lunch/fuel breaks as required. Done it in all manner of vehicles from Mk1 Pandas, Escorts, Cortinas, Sierras,Merc 190s, Mondeos, Golf GTis, Volvo 850s, Volvo 940s, Rover 800s, BMW 3s and 5s even a Westfield a couple of times and latterly, Mercedes Es.
Without a shadow of doubt in my mind, the greater the distance between the front and back wheels, the waftier the ride.
I remember a Car magazine article on the then new Fiat 126 Bis (the water-cooled version). In it the great LJK Setright spoke of chap from Fiat UK who, when he had to drive to Turin, would always choose a 126. And they have a very short wheelbase!.
Edited by badbusdriver on 02/08/2022 at 07:47
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Wheelbase is the key to long distance comfort. In my humble.
That may be true in general terms, but a 2015 Honda Jazz (regardless of whether late 2nd gen or early 3rd) has a longer wheelbase than any rival other than the Renault Clio.
It also ignores the firmness of suspension itself. The OP mentions an Audi A5 he likes the look of, but going by the motoring press, Audi's were commonly derided for their ride being excessively firm (despite a lengthy wheelbase).
Before Brovid I used to drive to and from Milan four times a year to and from Cheshire. Nine hundred and something miles each way. Plus or minus 18 hours door to door including coffee/pee/lunch/fuel breaks as required. Done it in all manner of vehicles from Mk1 Pandas, Escorts, Cortinas, Sierras,Merc 190s, Mondeos, Golf GTis, Volvo 850s, Volvo 940s, Rover 800s, BMW 3s and 5s even a Westfield a couple of times and latterly, Mercedes Es.
Without a shadow of doubt in my mind, the greater the distance between the front and back wheels, the waftier the ride.
I remember a Car magazine article on the then new Fiat 126 Bis (the water-cooled version). In it the great LJK Setright spoke of chap from Fiat UK who, when he had to drive to Turin, would always choose a 126. And they have a very short wheelbase!.
Indeed - the combination of the inate firmness (or not) of the suspension and the contribution to or against the ride quality from the size and type of wheel/tyre combo cannot be underestimated.
My parents' two otherwise very similar cars shows what a big difference just fitting smaller wheels and higher profile tyres make to ride comfort. Even with my car where the difference in the size when changing tyres and wheels was much less, the improvement in ride quality was noticeable.
One thing I've noticed via test driving cars or gleening from road tests/reviews on sites like this is how some car manufacturers either try to cover up poor chassis and suspension design that would ordinarily mean the car handles poorly by significantly firming up the suspension and fitting wider, lower profile tyres, often to cars that don't have the performance to warrant them.
Unfortunately some cars' firm ride doesn't reveal itself until the new car has got a year or two 10-20K miles under its belt. When I test drove a similar Jazz before I decided on my Mazda3 back in late 2005, I thought that the Jazz's ride was firmer, but not so bad. Maybe my test drive route didn't go on enough poorly surfaced roads and I was lucky.
Maybe the OP might want to consider tarding in the mk1 Jazz for a (supposedly) better riding mk2? Still as practical, though no torque converter auto (presume just the CVT or the hated i-Shift).
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Petrol. How much are you looking to spend on the car and how many seats does it need.?
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As well as the Jazz I have an automatic Skoda Octavia petrol estate for longer trips which is a great car, but like the Jazz is just a bit well, boring.
I have a budget of £18k ish but cannot decide what I want. Realistically, I need to be able to take 4 adults, plus stuff, over longer distances with ease and in comfort. As advised here, petrol is the way to go and it must be an automatic.
I'd quite like another SUV especially for the higher ride height and driving position but having had a couple of old petrol Qashqais which I found really underpowered I'm not sure.
I'm drawn to the crop of fastbacks as I like the way they look and seem to fulfil my brief. I'm concerned about running a petrol BMW 3 series GTbut like the VW Arteon as mechanically it would be similar to my current Skoda.
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If you want, there are the Kia and hyundai sportage and tucson with 1.6 turbo engines and reliable (ish) dct autoboxes.
Sideways look is what I have, Ssangyong Korando 1.5 t auto. (mine is a manual)
The interior of the current shape Korando is really good and roomy, and seats superbly comfortable.
7 year warranty too.
Edited by _ORB_ on 05/08/2022 at 10:31
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If you go down the 'looks' route, also worth looking at the Kia Proceed. I'm planning to get one - just make sure you're satisfied with the space in the back seats.
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I've looked at both the Kia and Hyundai but the reviews on here, especially from current owners, state that the fuel economy is appalling for the 1.6 petrol automatic engine. Nice interior on the Kia Sportage GT Line though.
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I've looked at both the Kia and Hyundai but the reviews on here, especially from current owners, state that the fuel economy is appalling for the 1.6 petrol automatic engine. Nice interior on the Kia Sportage GT Line though.
For your 5000 mileage the difference isn't going to be great.
5-10 mpg against better reliability and if serviced with Kia a 7 year warranty.
The Korando has lovely seats in the front, as swmbo and myself can testify, and room for 3 adults in the back and a 551 litre boot with seats up.
The looks are better than the Kia, and fuel consumption no worse.
Of the Kia or the Hyundai, the Hyundai looks better to me.
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I've looked at both the Kia and Hyundai but the reviews on here, especially from current owners, state that the fuel economy is appalling for the 1.6 petrol automatic engine. Nice interior on the Kia Sportage GT Line though.
For your 5000 mileage the difference isn't going to be great.
5-10 mpg against better reliability and if serviced with Kia a 7 year warranty.
The Korando has lovely seats in the front, as swmbo and myself can testify, and room for 3 adults in the back and a 551 litre boot with seats up.
The looks are better than the Kia, and fuel consumption no worse.
Of the Kia or the Hyundai, the Hyundai looks better to me.
I've nothing against the Korando, but the dealer network is pretty small. So in the OP's position, I wouldn't consider one (still in warranty) unless there was a dealer within a reasonable distance.
Re owners experience of economy, I'd take that with a pinch of salt. When looking at the real mpg section of this website for example, there is nothing to say how many owners have contributed to the stated figure for any given model (may just be one), nor how they drive (heavy footed?), nor what type of journeys (maybe all urban?).
The purpose of your new car does seem to be evolving though. It started off that you want a car for doing long journeys in because your Jazz isn't comfortable. But now we know you already have a comfortable car for doing long journeys in the Octavia and you want to change it because it is boring!.
Here is another option though. IMO, the most important factor in a long journey car is comfort, which you seem to already have. So surely if the Octavia is proving reliable it would make more sense to replace your other car with something more interesting?. As this would just be a runabout, it doesn't need to be particularly spacious, comfortable or refined. I'm guessing that you do more journeys in the Jazz, even though you drive further in the Octavia. What that means is that you spend more time sitting in the Octavia enjoying the comfort (where you can't see the outside of it), and more time approaching the Jazz to get in (where you do see the outside of it).
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Good point well made. I hadn't looked at it like that. Yes, I do spend more time in the Jazz, so maybe I need to look at finding a small automatic that I enjoy driving and which will be better for bombing around locally.
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I've looked at both the Kia and Hyundai but the reviews on here, especially from current owners, state that the fuel economy is appalling for the 1.6 petrol automatic engine. Nice interior on the Kia Sportage GT Line though.
Be careful you're not mis-reading the owner reviews for either the 'old 1.6 non-turbo petrol in auto form (which is heavy on fuel), especially some models which were then using the much older TC auto design as well rather than a more modern DCT, or the 1.6 diesel. I suspect its more likely because its a lower powered engine (134PS) mated to a quite large, boxy car, which then has to be worked hard generally.
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A newer car does not automatically buy better reliability. In fact I think it’s the reverse . With so much more technology and emission gizmos fitted the chances of something going wrong increases.
Agree. I’ve had far more trouble from modern cars than I ever recall from cars I owned or bought and sold in the 90’s. Ordinary family cars were mechanically simple things because the fleet markets which bought most of them demanded that they were robust and easy to repair, when tax changes killed off the company car market this changed and cars were filled with complex and unnecessary gadgets while quality took a downward step with most manufacturers, particularly the German brands.
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You might be right in that I could look at an older, more interesting, car for local journeys.
I've just looked on Autotrader and found a 1990 VW Golf Driver and a Peugeot 205, both automatics and both less than £5k. I had a 205 years ago and it was one of tje most comfortable cars ever. Food for thought.
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Depending on budget, forgive me, a Honda CRZ might be a fun choice.
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I've just looked on Autotrader and found a 1990 VW Golf Driver and a Peugeot 205, both automatics and both less than £5k. I had a 205 years ago and it was one of the most comfortable cars ever.
As a habitual owner of 205s for about 30 years, I woud agree. There aren't many for sale these days except GTis at silly money, but a few everyday ones pop up, including the odd auto with low mileage, probably an old lady's shopping trolley. I've no experience of auto 205s, but they have the detuned 1.6 petrol engine. I haven't heard that they are troublesome. so good luck with that idea. They feel strangely small in today's overgrown traffic !
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My family also ran a 205 (diesel) back in the 1980s when they were current. I'm not sure I would want one now. They were great cars in their day but the design is now 40 years old. Safety features will be minimal. A comfortable car in its day compared to Metros and Fiestas but I'm unconvinced compared to modern cars.
The auto gearbox was ZF but the early models did not have PAS. An elderly neighbour at the time test drove one and went for a Mitsubishi Colt for that reason alone. Back in those days not many small autos had PAS. This would have been in about 1986.
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The auto gearbox was ZF but the early models did not have PAS. An elderly neighbour at the time test drove one and went for a Mitsubishi Colt for that reason alone. Back in those days not many small autos had PAS. This would have been in about 1986.
Very few 205s had PAS until after 1990, and even then it was mostly an option, and mostly on diesel cars, which were more front-heavy and had fatter tyres. Those with 1.0 or 1.1-litre engines were well under a ton and hardly needed PAS. I remember being in a Pug showroom (it's many years since I did that) about 1992 and someone had just tried a CTi convertible with PAS, saying the steering was far too light .....
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Depending on budget, forgive me, a Honda CRZ might be a fun choice.
I'd agree but it appears the OP really wants auto.
I've no experience of auto 205s, but they have the detuned 1.6 petrol engine.
Not all, you also got a 105bhp 1.9 auto in high spec cars (here is one on Autotrader 202203203755224)
You might be right in that I could look at an older, more interesting, car for local journeys.
I've just looked on Autotrader and found a 1990 VW Golf Driver and a Peugeot 205, both automatics and both less than £5k. I had a 205 years ago and it was one of tje most comfortable cars ever. Food for thought.
I quite like the idea, but only if you have a nice dry garage to keep the car in!. There are a few Renault 5 auto's on Autotrader, a couple of which have PAS and one of which is the high spec Monaco model in metallic brown with leather!.
But, I was actually thinking more along the lines of something like this,
294053009730
or maybe one of these,
cheap-used-subaru-r1-2005-for-sale-61c5009380109ca72fd578f3
(Bear in mind, on top of the price 'shipped to Bristol' you'll have import tax to pay, and you'd have to get it undersealed, fit rear foglight etc)
But I also had in mind (making full use of the budget you mentioned), assuming you have a driveway on which a charger could be installed, something like this,
202206086573464
Of course there is also the two seat version if you thought you could manage with that, even easier to park!
Edited by badbusdriver on 06/08/2022 at 08:17
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If you can manage with two seats for the (interesting) runabout (and assuming your hips could deal with getting in and out of a car this close to the ground!), how about this imported Eunos (MX5) auto?. You could get a removable hardtop for the winter months,
202206227044698
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Re comfort - there's much to be said for a foam cushion. Cheaper than a long wheelase car.
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A 205 auto would be a safer bet than the R5. The 205 used a 4sp ZF 'box whereas the R5 used Renault's own 3sp one. But neither would appeal to me after all these years.
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A 205 auto would be a safer bet than the R5. The 205 used a 4sp ZF 'box whereas the R5 used Renault's own 3sp one. But neither would appeal to me after all these years.
As an urban runabout in addition to an Octavia estate, I wouldn't be overly concerned about whether it had 3 or 4 gears, (nor safety). As for comfort, both are French, and of that age both are going to have a supple ride.
But the thing is, any car of that type and age worth buying, is going to be rare. So it may be more a case of buying the best available rather than the one you most want.
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Re comfort - there's much to be said for a foam cushion. Cheaper than a long wheelase car.
It's not just the cushioning effect of a better seat (or addition of a cushion) or newer suspension that can make the different to the ride quality - a longer wheelbase means a more settled ride, e.g. over speed humps.
An older car may give the benefit of being shod on smaller wheels and higher profile tyres, plus older cars generally had softer suspension anyway.
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Many thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
Having driven a Smart car as a hire car I never want to go near one again - ever!!
Yes, I do have to have an automatic gearbox, but given how light most older cars are, having PAS isn't a necessity, we did without it for years in most cars after all.
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Having driven a Smart car as a hire car I never want to go near one again - ever!!
You may well have your own, and different reasons for wanting to avoid a Smart car. But, just to point out, one of the things which drivers disliked most about them was the dim witted single clutch automated manual (this lasted from the first, right through to the all new one circa 2015). Which, if you tried to drive like a normal auto would result in the 'nodding dog' syndrome due to the delay between one gear being disengaged and the next taking over. You could alleviate this to a degree through familiarity by lifting off slightly during the change. Later cars had a DCT, so this wasn't as much an issue due to (in theory) much quicker changes.
If this (the gearbox) was the reason you found your hire car so disagreeable, you can rest easy, the electric version (like most electric cars) has no gearbox!. No gearbox means no shonky gear changes, just smooth electric thrust (that is why I suggested an electric Smart rather than an ICE one).
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Yes, you are quite correct, it was the auto box that put me off, as well as the fact I couldn't park it. I drove one as a hire car for a week and it was the most hateful car I have ever driven. I can park long cars really easily but parking something short and stubby completely defeated me ????
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Maybe something like this would fit the bill
www.carandclassic.com/car/C1399265
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I had assumed 'older' meant 10-15 years! Just remember proper old stuff requires proper maintenance. At least you've got the Octavia for when it won't start in winter.
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I had assumed 'older' meant 10-15 years! Just remember proper old stuff requires proper maintenance. At least you've got the Octavia for when it won't start in winter.
I don't see that age of car has much to do with starting in winter - more with age of battery, how much the car is used and how it is looked after. In fact if the car is old enough it will have few gizmos draining the battery between uses, so it may well start easily after a month's layoff.
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