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Very good point Avant. There was a similar comment on another thread recently about the availibility of power of the 'uprated' ('sportified') Toyota Corolla in 2.0 hybrid form - I mean, what happens when the hybrid battery has completely discharged?
Is it just a lower-powered 2.0 petrol with some heavy batteries to drag around, rather than a 180PS+ car which is actually quite nippy? I presume with a standard hybrid, you'd have to wait some time for the engine on ICE only mode to charge up the hybrid battery, meaning power/torque available would be significantly lower than usual, and probably a lot less than even a non-hybrid ICE car with the same size engine.
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Perhaps BMW expect and train their salesmen to behave as their customers often drive - arrogant, get out of my way, I want to be first away from the lights, intolerant etc etc.
Courtesy, restraint, patience are qualities usually found lacking in BMW afficionados - BMW driving members of this forum are obviously exceptions to the general rule!
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I popped into what was a Honda garage in my then ageing, but still immaculate, Mazda Xedos - bought it at 2k miles and was the best car I have ever had reliability wise.
A salesman stopped me on going to park my car and without prompting told me the clearance cars were "round the side".
I bought my Honda CRV within 6 months but not from that outlet. Within 18 months it closed and last year the entire "mini chain" had closed for good - they had had 4 Honda site, KIa, Mitsubishi, Suzuki............probably 10 sites in total.
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Very good point Avant. There was a similar comment on another thread recently about the availibility of power of the 'uprated' ('sportified') Toyota Corolla in 2.0 hybrid form - I mean, what happens when the hybrid battery has completely discharged?
I can't speak for the Toyota, but my 225 never lets the hybrid battery get completely discharged. It always retains 3 to 4% charge in the traction battery as a minimum, so that the full combined output of the petrol and electric motors is available for acceleration etc on demand. It just means that the car won't drive for any significant distance in electric-only mode.
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Very good point Avant. There was a similar comment on another thread recently about the availibility of power of the 'uprated' ('sportified') Toyota Corolla in 2.0 hybrid form - I mean, what happens when the hybrid battery has completely discharged?
Is it just a lower-powered 2.0 petrol with some heavy batteries to drag around, rather than a 180PS+ car which is actually quite nippy? I presume with a standard hybrid, you'd have to wait some time for the engine on ICE only mode to charge up the hybrid battery, meaning power/torque available would be significantly lower than usual, and probably a lot less than even a non-hybrid ICE car with the same size engine.
It's highly unlikely that you would ever see that unless the car has a major fault, letting the battery run that low regularly is bad for it's longevity (& Toyota will warranty the traction battery for upto 15 years subject to a few caveats). The engine in the 2.0l hybrid puts out ~140bhp on it's own (remember that it runs a cycle similar to Atkinson so it follows a higher efficiency rather than higher power approach).
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Very good point Avant. There was a similar comment on another thread recently about the availibility of power of the 'uprated' ('sportified') Toyota Corolla in 2.0 hybrid form - I mean, what happens when the hybrid battery has completely discharged?
Is it just a lower-powered 2.0 petrol with some heavy batteries to drag around, rather than a 180PS+ car which is actually quite nippy? I presume with a standard hybrid, you'd have to wait some time for the engine on ICE only mode to charge up the hybrid battery, meaning power/torque available would be significantly lower than usual, and probably a lot less than even a non-hybrid ICE car with the same size engine.
It's highly unlikely that you would ever see that unless the car has a major fault, letting the battery run that low regularly is bad for it's longevity (& Toyota will warranty the traction battery for upto 15 years subject to a few caveats). The engine in the 2.0l hybrid puts out ~140bhp on it's own (remember that it runs a cycle similar to Atkinson so it follows a higher efficiency rather than higher power approach).
But a car on a lot that's been sitting around doing nothing will have a depleted (not necessarily flat) battery, and when it's not in action, the ICE engine will use part of its 140PS to charge up that bettery and to haul its extra weight over a purely ICE car, and as it is tuned for efficiency (more so than a normal ICE car, but less than the 1.8), I'd bet that on ICE-only mode it won't perform like a standard ICE car of the same size with a 2.0 N/A petrol engine.
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But a car on a lot that's been sitting around doing nothing will have a depleted (not necessarily flat) battery, and when it's not in action, the ICE engine will use part of its 140PS to charge up that bettery and to haul its extra weight over a purely ICE car,
Yes, the car will use part of it's potential ~140bhp output to recharge a depleted traction battery but cars rarely need to use all of their potential max output purely to provide momentum (do you drive around with your car permanently running at it's max. power rpms?) & a good chunk of the recharge comes from brake regen.
and as it is tuned for efficiency (more so than a normal ICE car, but less than the 1.8), I'd bet that on ICE-only mode it won't perform like a standard ICE car of the same size with a 2.0 N/A petrol engine.
Actually the 2.0 is a fractionally more thermally efficient engine than the 1.8. The car will perform equal to or better (because it will have some electric assistance) than a standard ICE car with an engine that produces 140bhp mated with the same gearbox. For comparison a current BMW 320i produces 184bhp but my old 8 valve Vauxhall 2.0is used to produce under 140bhp.
On the other hand the hybrid will be nicer to drive in stop/start traffic than the NA ICE+stop/start system.
P.S. If you are interested in a sporty Corolla supposedly there is a non-hybrid coming out next year with ~250bhp under the Gazoo Racing badge. Engine is supposed to be a 1.6 turbo.
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a good chunk of the recharge comes from brake regen.
I find that hard to believe. The amount of time I spend on the brakes is minimal. Do you have sources to support it?
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I find that hard to believe. The amount of time I spend on the brakes is minimal. Do you have sources to support it?
Do you actually need to be 'on the brakes' for regen to occur?
I suspect the EV equivalent of engine braking = regen.
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I'm pretty sure that's right, Bromp. Most EVs have adjustable levels of deceleration (and regeneration): if it's set to maximum I'm told that you hardly need to use the brakes in normal driving.
But I don't think it's enough to prolong the range by a huge amount.
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a good chunk of the recharge comes from brake regen.
I find that hard to believe. The amount of time I spend on the brakes is minimal. Do you have sources to support it?
e.g. www.thoughtco.com/how-does-regenerative-braking-wo...5
N.B. you don't actually need to be "on" the brakes for regen to occur.
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a good chunk of the recharge comes from brake regen.
I find that hard to believe. The amount of time I spend on the brakes is minimal. Do you have sources to support it?
e.g. www.thoughtco.com/how-does-regenerative-braking-wo...5
N.B. you don't actually need to be "on" the brakes for regen to occur.
That does mean the car either loses speed and needs more throttle input or cannot coast at a constant speed. Handy though on a downslope.
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Handy though on a downslope.
Toyota hybrids actually have a "B" (for Braking) setting on the transmission for long, steep declines.This increases energy harvesting from the brake system thereby simulating engine braking
Edited by Heidfirst on 16/02/2020 at 14:48
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Handy though on a downslope.
Toyota hybrids actually have a "B" (for Braking) setting on the transmission for long, steep declines.This increases energy harvesting from the brake system thereby simulating engine braking
Can it be switched off, e.g. on less steep declines so that you can coast at a steady speed? Or is it all automatic with some sensor to determine when it's needed and not?
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Yes - you just don't set the lever to B.
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Handy though on a downslope.
Toyota hybrids actually have a "B" (for Braking) setting on the transmission for long, steep declines.This increases energy harvesting from the brake system thereby simulating engine braking
Toyota do make a decent job of things, that's not dissimilar to the auxilliary brake (eg exhaust brake or jake brake or other retarder) as fitted to trucks and coaches, except up to now there's no viable weight wise way to harvest that energy and it's purely to assist with or as alternative to braking.
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But a car on a lot that's been sitting around doing nothing will have a depleted (not necessarily flat) battery, and when it's not in action, the ICE engine will use part of its 140PS to charge up that bettery and to haul its extra weight over a purely ICE car,
Yes, the car will use part of it's potential ~140bhp output to recharge a depleted traction battery but cars rarely need to use all of their potential max output purely to provide momentum (do you drive around with your car permanently running at it's max. power rpms?) & a good chunk of the recharge comes from brake regen.
Only if you're using the brakes often, which is essentially urban driving, otherwise it won't add as much charge to the battery. I get your point though - I just think Toyota are marketing the car as a bit more 'sport' when in reality there'll be little chance to use that 2-3 sec reduction in 0-60 time for extended periods if you mainly drive out of town.
P.S. If you are interested in a sporty Corolla supposedly there is a non-hybrid coming out next year with ~250bhp under the Gazoo Racing badge. Engine is supposed to be a 1.6 turbo.
Really? Didn't they just get rid of the 1.2T, presumably because they wanted to reduce their EU corporate CO2 figure to get less fines per car for going over the 'limit'? Rather like why Mazda didn't introduce the 2.5L N/A petrol engine to the Mazda3 in the UK (they also have a stonking 2.5T on their larger cars in North America and Down Under).
Well, if it does reach our shores, then I wouldn't be surprised that it does so in very limited numbers, rather like the Yaris equivalent. And I suspect that the ride will be as hard as nails, never mind the price (the 2.0 hybrid already as a RRP of £27k). I'd probably stick to the 2.0 if I was to go with any of them as 180PS is fine, though I'd rather have it on tap all the time.
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P.S. If you are interested in a sporty Corolla supposedly there is a non-hybrid coming out next year with ~250bhp under the Gazoo Racing badge. Engine is supposed to be a 1.6 turbo.
Really? Didn't they just get rid of the 1.2T, presumably because they wanted to reduce their EU corporate CO2 figure to get less fines per car for going over the 'limit'? Rather like why Mazda didn't introduce the 2.5L N/A petrol engine to the Mazda3 in the UK (they also have a stonking 2.5T on their larger cars in North America and Down Under).
Well, if it does reach our shores, then I wouldn't be surprised that it does so in very limited numbers, rather like the Yaris equivalent. And I suspect that the ride will be as hard as nails, never mind the price (the 2.0 hybrid already as a RRP of £27k). I'd probably stick to the 2.0 if I was to go with any of them as 180PS is fine, though I'd rather have it on tap all the time.
Yes, supposedly will use the same engine as in the forthcoming new Yaris GR although it's not clear if the Corolla will also get the 4WD of the Yaris GR.
I think planned as very much a halo vehicle & therefore very limited nos. & impact on fleet emission targets (similar to Supra). Also don't expect to be cheap compared to e.g. Focus ST, Civic R or Golf R.
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