All depends of your area and style of driving.
Mainly short runs/towns, 10 mins below 40mph, then no, forget it. But if your daily run is 30+mins fast roads/dual carriageways where you can do 60-70 (or that or longer once a week), then an Euro 6 diesel may be OK.
I've had a Nissan Juke and a Qashqai as lease cars with the 1.5dci Renault engine. It's a very good engine, 50mpg and because my journeys were long and fast, never had any emissions problems. Just looked at the MoT history for the Juke and in 6 tests its had one advisory for tyres, so the new owner has not undertaken short trips.
Currently have a BMW 3.0d, straight six, but use it on long runs, wife's petrol Mini for local stuff. I am considering replacing it with another 3.0 diesel as the big petrol SUVs I really drink petrol. So diesel isn't dead yet.
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All depends of your area and style of driving.
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Currently have a BMW 3.0d, straight six, but use it on long runs, wife's petrol Mini for local stuff. I am considering replacing it with another 3.0 diesel as the big petrol SUVs I really drink petrol. So diesel isn't dead yet.
I drive a 22 year-old BMW 320d Touring. Kept in the family with fsh (I've owned it for 12 years). Mainly used on short journeys, but capable of long-haul trips to France. Wouldn't dare driving it through London (or Bristol) though.
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Thanks everyone for your replies. At the heart of it is that I dislike newer cars, too complex, too expensive. Will probably get a petrol manual but will really miss the relaxed power that the diesel gave me in spades.
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Thanks everyone for your replies. At the heart of it is that I dislike newer cars, too complex, too expensive. Will probably get a petrol manual but will really miss the relaxed power that the diesel gave me in spades.
I went from a 1.9pd diesel mk I Superb to a 1.4 tsi petrol mk II Superb a few years ago. Yes the diesel had a little bit more torque at low revs but you know what I was surprised with the small turbo direct injection engine in the the large Superb it started pulling a bit from 1500rpm then picking up a lot from 2000rpm tugging the bus along very well indeed. Then if you ventured north of 3000rpm (90 mph in 6th!) it really picked its skirts up - more so than the diesel.
It also amazed re fuel economy, overall average circa 46mpg (50mpg+ possible on a speed limit run on a motorway) not quite the 50mpg of the diesel Superb that did about 50mpg overall, but not so far off. The later EA211.4tsi is even better and fitted to many VAG cars eg mkIII Octavia - I'd recommend trying one out.
Edited by Big John on 06/10/2024 at 23:41
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Thanks, that is very useful to know.
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I was also going to recommend a small turbo petrol and the VW unit seems to be one of the best, if not the best. Several forum members rate them highly and reliability seems fine.
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Thanks, that is very useful to know.
What would be useful to know is what your budget is. Without that and various other bits of info (already asked) such as annual miles, typical journey type, what size/type of car you want/need, it is difficult to make informed suggestions.
Edited by badbusdriver on 07/10/2024 at 09:01
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<< It also amazed re fuel economy, overall average circa 46mpg (50mpg+ possible on a speed limit run on a motorway) not quite the 50mpg of the diesel Superb that did about 50mpg overall, but not so far off. >>
Depends how fast you drive of course, but I don't find 50mpg very impressive for a diesel. My Pug 207 1.6 always shows 65-67 for a round trip of 150 miles or so on mixed M'way and A roads.
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<< It also amazed re fuel economy, overall average circa 46mpg (50mpg+ possible on a speed limit run on a motorway) not quite the 50mpg of the diesel Superb that did about 50mpg overall, but not so far off. >>
Depends how fast you drive of course, but I don't find 50mpg very impressive for a diesel. My Pug 207 1.6 always shows 65-67 for a round trip of 150 miles or so on mixed M'way and A roads.
Above attempts to compare "overall" fuel consumption with that on a long M'way/A road run. Not really surprising that the latter is much better.
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Depends how fast you drive of course, but I don't find 50mpg very impressive for a diesel. My Pug 207 1.6 always shows 65-67 for a round trip of 150 miles or so on mixed M'way and A roads.
The Superb is a very large/heavy car and with the 1.9pd diesel it seemed to do 50mpg no matter how you drove it. The 50mpg was tank to tank measured as what was shown on the on board computer was an act of fiction. Must have been my lead footed driving though as a work colleague bought it off me and he achieved mid 50's mpg getting 800 miles out of a tank of diesel.
The 1,4tsi is more driving style / load sensitive although it's on board computer was surprisingly accurate. When driving from Yorkshire to Cheltenham whilst the long roadworks were on the M5 it sometimes got about 53mpg. High speed runs (130kph), fully laden and up and down steep hills in France seemed to drop mpg to low 40's. Overall when measured tank to tank using Spritmonitor it averaged 46.7mpg including all journey types inc long commute with A roads/ bad traffic - I got bored of inputting figures after a while though.
The important thing for the Original Poster is the low cc tsi drives well if only a little less low down torque(thanks to the turbo) but with the addition of that extra zap higher up the rev range if you need it. With a six speed box in top it's fairly low revving/relaxing on the motorway - about 2400rpm @ 70mph with plenty of pull at that speed if you needed it despite it being a tall overdrive. As mentioned above we're not sure of budget etc but the tsi appeared in lots of cars. The ones to avoid are the earlier 8 valve EA111 1.2tsi (pre circa 2015) and the twin charger (supercharger& turbo) 16v 1.4tsi as per Fabia vrs etc.
Edited by Big John on 07/10/2024 at 13:02
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I like driving other people's diesels, I don't like owning them.
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went from a 1.9pd diesel mk I Superb to a 1.4 tsi petrol mk II Superb a few years ago. Yes the diesel had a little bit more torque at low revs but you know what I was surprised with the small turbo direct injection engine in the the large Superb it started pulling a bit from 1500rpm then picking up a lot from 2000rpm tugging the bus along very well indeed. Then if you ventured north of 3000rpm (90 mph in 6th!) it really picked its skirts up - more so than the diesel.
It also amazed re fuel economy, overall average circa 46mpg (50mpg+ possible on a speed limit run on a motorway) not quite the 50mpg of the diesel Superb that did about 50mpg overall, but not so far off. The later EA211.4tsi is even better and fitted to many VAG cars eg mkIII Octavia - I'd recommend trying one out.
We had a Mk3 Superb 1.4TSi 150 PS for 3 1/2 years. Over that time in mixed use it averaged 45.08 mpg which was calculated and corrected for the small error in the odometer reading. As is normal the dash computer displays a higher mpg figure. On a 1200 mile road trip to Scotland (we do it twice a year) it would average closer to 52 mpg for the week. Compared to the last diesel car we had (a Kia ceed 1.6 CRDi - which had a lot less power, was smaller and weighed less) the Kia averaged 51.4 mpg (corrected for odometer error again) for the 5 years we owned it and on a Scottish trip would average about 54 mpg for the week. Take the extra cost of diesel into account and those differences get closer.
The 1.4 TSi engine is a much better drive than any diesel we have owned (and that includes a 2 litre BMW). No turbo lag and the ability to rev to 6000 when needed with no drop off in power are features any driver would spot after a diesel.
But its not just the Superb we have owned with a 1.4TSi engine, we also had a Mk3 Leon with the 140 PS version of the same belt drive engine. The overall average for the 3 1/2 years we had it was virtually identical to the bigger Superb but on a Scottish trip the Superb was actually better. We put this down to the more aerodynamic shape of the Superb but the ACT (cylinder cutoff) on the Superb engine may also have been a factor especially on motorways.
In our household we owned 6 turbo diesels over a 20 year period, most of that time we had 2 on the drive. Never had an issue with any. We will not be buying another, the TSI is so much better with none of the risks with modern diesels.
For the record we had a Golf TDi 90 PS which at the time we thought was a great car. No dash computer but pen and paper suggested about 48 mpg overall and high 50's on the Scottish trip. It was several years after selling it that I spotted the distance from home to the lodge was about 425 miles in a C-MAX, in the Golf it was about 450 miles. We had not moved, the lodge had not moved and the route we took was the same (with a bit more dual carriageway in places). Checked it on the Garmin and that also said about 425 miles thus the Golf odometer was over reading by about 6%. Factor that into the calculated mpg figures and the fabled mpg of the early TDi was not as good locally as the Ceed and only a little better on a long trip. If the diesel Superb had the same error it could be even closer.
For the record the current Superb records about 425 miles for the trip (with a bit more dual carriageway).
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The ones to avoid are the earlier 8 valve EA111 1.2tsi (pre circa 2015)
Having owned the 1.4 Leon for a couple of years we tested a Polo in early 2015 with the 1.2 TSi 90 PS thinking it would be the similar (less power but a lighter car). Total pile of r******, no go at all.
3 years later tried a Fabia with the 1.0 TSi in both 95 and 110 PS versions. Both were great, bought a 110 PS simply because the extra £600 got you not only an extra 15 PS but about 26 torques, a 6 speed gearbox and better brakes, well worth the extra.
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, in the Golf it was about 450 miles. We had not moved, the lodge had not moved and the route we took was the same (with a bit more dual carriageway in places). Checked it on the Garmin and that also said about 425 miles thus the Golf odometer was over reading by about 6%.
Interesting. I'll need to check the odometer on my new Swace, The speedo over reads by a few mph. Slightly more annoying as it has the latest speed "notification" gubbins.
Saying that I'm not moaning as that gubbins has saved my bacon once already when on holiday. It beeped at me and I thought "er what" so I slowed down quickly and just around the corner was a speed van - phew!! I drove back down the same road again another day and one speed limit sign was grown over and on the other side of the road it was partially covered. I think the system uses a combination of gps and camera technology. You get a quiet bip as a limit changes - then a few beeps if you are then over the limit although it quickly shuts up.
Edited by Big John on 08/10/2024 at 00:17
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<< I'll need to check the odometer on my new Swace, The speedo over reads by a few mph. >>
I used to check my cars against the km. markers on M'ways - tho they could move about a bit if work had been done on the verges.
I had the impression, while driving my series of 205s, all with mechanical odometers, that they over-read by about 4%. When things became digital instead of analogue distances seemed to be much more accurate. But makers had to allow for varying sizes of tyres being fitted to the same models.
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Possibly a silly question, but in the original post the OP said they got rid of their old car last year and are still looking for a replacement. What have you been doing in the meantime?
If you've managed without a car at all (or possibly a second car) for nearly a year, do you even need your own car at all? If you only need to drive a few times a month, getting a taxi or hire car for those occasions may be the cheapest option.
Similarly, there's little point in paying thousands of pounds buying a car to avoid paying a few pounds occasionslly to drive in Bristol city centre. The reason why the London ULEZ was so unpopular was because people would have to pay every time they left their house. Most of the other low emission zones only cover very small areas of a city centre, which can be fairly easily avoided most of the time if you have an older car by using the bus or park&ride and taking a different route when crossing town.
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Everyone has focused on reliability, economy etc Has no one considered the political risks? Our leaders have an enormous thorn up their collective butt about Diesel.
Unless you live in a more sane country then yes, I think buying any diesel right now is a gutsy decision. Personally I wouldn't.
Then again I bought an EV three years ago, so maybe my future predictor isn't up to much either.
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Compared to petrol and diesel passenger car percentages of vehicles on the road, EV's haven't made much of an impression in the UK.
2023 figures for UK show only 1.3 % of vehicles in use are BEV's.
58.5% are petrol & 36.1% are diesel
Compared to europe the highest %age of BEV's is 16.2% in Norway but there are still 41.4% of diesel cars in use there.
The lowest is Greece with 0.0% BEV 90.1% petrol and only 8.6% diesel.
The highest diesel usage figure is 67.8% for Lithuania and only 0.3% BEV
Here in France it's 40.1% petrol 55.2 % diesel and 1.0% BEV + a huge amount of charging stations but very few being used.
www.acea.auto/files/ACEA-report-vehicles-in-use-eu...f
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Compared to petrol and diesel passenger car percentages of vehicles on the road, EV's haven't made much of an impression in the UK.
2023 figures for UK show only 1.3 % of vehicles in use are BEV's.
58.5% are petrol & 36.1% are diesel
Compared to europe the highest %age of BEV's is 16.2% in Norway but there are still 41.4% of diesel cars in use there.
The lowest is Greece with 0.0% BEV 90.1% petrol and only 8.6% diesel.
The highest diesel usage figure is 67.8% for Lithuania and only 0.3% BEV
Here in France it's 40.1% petrol 55.2 % diesel and 1.0% BEV + a huge amount of charging stations but very few being used.
www.acea.auto/files/ACEA-report-vehicles-in-use-eu...f
If you look at all cars of all ages for sale on Autotrader, electric accounts for 4.43%, diesel accounts for 28.27%
But that is neither here nor there. The oldest production EV on Autotrader is a 2011 Nissan Leaf, whereas the oldest diesel car, a Land Rover is 52 years older (and probably more reliable than a new one!).
If comparing diesel and EV, looking at year on year percentages over the last (not quite) 5 years is much more telling.
2019, EV = 0.85%, diesel = 35.15%
2020, EV = 4.16%, diesel = 23.53%
2021, EV = 5.93%, diesel = 13.8%
2022, EV = 7.31%, diesel = 10.25%
2023, EV = 11.78%, diesel = 11.84%
2024, EV = 14.4%, diesel = 11%
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2023 figures for UK show only 1.3 % of vehicles in use are BEV's.
Nope the document you link to, says 2021 on the top of the actual page where your 1.3% figure comes from. Google says 2023 BEV is 3% and PHEV/ BEV is a combined 7% of total. Which is a huge jump in a short time. That's percentage of total, percentage of new sales ( year on year) is far higher something like 14% from memory. If you drive an EV you cannot but help seeing them, they're everywhere !
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I have the www.acea.auto/files/ACEA-report-vehicles-in-use-eu...f
document open on one tab with HJ open next to it and it plainly says 1.3% BEV but the table is titled 2023 in the URL but at the top right as you say in tiny letters it's 2021.
So they got their URL's mixed up - sorry about that, even page one the title page says 2023 in large letters.
But lets face it - even with BEV's at 3% they are still the 8 track stereo of the car market.
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But lets face it - even with BEV's at 3% they are still the 8 track stereo of the car market.
Well it depends on how your mind works I suppose. If that is the conclusion you draw from your link, fair enough.
Consider this though, on a rainy day i put a metal bucket outside at 8am and then a plastic one out at 4pm. At 6pm i compare them and declare that the metal bucket having collected more rain is "proof" of it being the better bucket, and the plastic bucket is the minidisc of the bucket market by comparison.
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First, they will ignore you, then they will laugh at you, then they will fight you, then you will win.” - Mahatma Gandhi
You are at stage 2. 3% of an overall total is significant. Theres a trend and its growing. But thats just the UK , Norway is in 2023 89.86%.
So carry on laughing...for now.
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I don't think anyone's laughing, its just that battery power doesn't appeal to a hell of a lot of motorists in the first place, and many are not convinced of the financial benefits either especially those who buy their own cars from their net incomes with no access to tax breaks nor those who rely solely on public charging.
Personally i've no axe to grind either way, for those who can take advantage of present tax incentives i don't blame you one bit doing so, i did the same for years running LPG which has now come to a crashing halt following Morrisons suddenly raisng the price of lpg to a ludicrous £1.30 a litre, which is odd when the Shell garage 25 miles away is undoubtably still making a profit at 82p, maybe they wish to drop LPG and making it too expensive will provide the lack of sales excuses needed.
Sooner or later the costs of ownership and running any and all power trains will change and not for the better, all one can do is make the best of what suits you at the time.
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i did the same for years running LPG which has now come to a crashing halt following Morrisons suddenly raisng the price of lpg to a ludicrous £1.30 a litre, which is odd when the Shell garage 25 miles away is undoubtably still making a profit at 82p, maybe they wish to drop LPG and making it too expensive will provide the lack of sales excuses needed.
Morrisons fuel stations as of a few months ago are now owned and run by the Motor Fuel Group. Everything changed including the staff( a friend of mine was made redundant) , so I'm guessing they are probably not wanting to sell LPG anymore or they know there is limited availability so can charge what they want!
In our area (East Yorkshire) LPG filling stations are becoming rare as hens teeth.
Edited by Big John on 09/10/2024 at 21:20
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In our area (East Yorkshire) LPG filling stations are becoming rare as hens teeth.
The same thing is happening in Australia. There are far fewer LPG cars on the road now and hardly any garages selling it. It has got to the stage where the garage storage tanks are no longer made in Australia and have to be imported from Argentina!
I have a car with dual fuel so I can run it on petrol if need be. I have had 18 years running it on gas and done about 200,000km in that time so it doesn't owe me anything.
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Morrisons fuel stations as of a few months ago are now owned and run by the Motor Fuel Group. Everything changed including the staff( a friend of mine was made redundant) , so I'm guessing they are probably not wanting to sell LPG anymore or they know there is limited availability so can charge what they want!
In our area (East Yorkshire) LPG filling stations are becoming rare as hens teeth.
I knew something had gone on, all the old staff vanished a few months ago which was a shame as i'd got to know them well over the years and always had a pleasant exchange, i don't use the main Morrisons shop where the LPG site is as its near my work not my home so don't know if they've been redeployed...hope your friend finds a decent job.
The Shell garage still selling at 82ppl in M'Keynes does a busy trade in LPG, hope for those who can benefit they continue to sell it, we're meeting some family at MK hopefully at weekend so will grab a tankful all being well.
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Morrisons was bought out by a US backed Group - lots of borrowed money - Interest Rates rose, Market share of Morrisons fell and is still falling.
Sold off petrol stations, sold off property and rented it back to get cash in their bank - they are still losing market share.
Asda are in the same boat - buy-out from Walmart, Big Bucks borrowed, high interest payments, falling market share. Spent £800m on new computer systems to get away from Walmart IT which cost them a lot.
Not the best results from the new IT - Stock problems, Payroll mix ups, suppliers not paid on time.
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.hope your friend finds a decent job.
He effectively has early retired. Fortunately this job was just a fill in when he semi retired a few years ago.
Edited by Big John on 10/10/2024 at 19:53
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