What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
Looking for SUV suggestions - HazzaC

Hi all, I'm in the market for an SUV. It's myself, my partner, and our 3 dogs. Also, possibly a baby on the horizon. We are brits living in southern Sweden. Probably something 2018 onwards, second hand from a dealer here.

Priorities are as follows

- Budget £30k (400k sek - I think the market is a bit more expensive in Sweden, but fairly comparable to the UK)

- Decent AWD

- Reliability!

- Ample storage

- Fuel economy (within reason)

Things I'm undecided on

- Auto vs manual

- Petrol vs diesel vs hyrbid vs PHEV

Things I don't really care about

- Interior / gadgets

- Appearance (tho ideally doesn't look like a space ship)

- Ride / handling etc (have a preferred indiference ofc, but my priority is getting from a to b)

We own a cottage in central sweden that we are leaving, but will still own. I burnt out the clutch and wrecked the suspension on my 2004 Volvo v70 on the approach hill which, in winter, is basically unnavigable in a 2wd. We aren't living there full time anymore, but want the option to visit a few times over winter. I had a 07 suzuki vitara which got written off for unrelated reasons, and handled that hill with ease (even towed the volvo up it a few times on ice).

I'm mostly driving on tarmac, but want something that can handle occasional off road. I work from home so yearly mileage is quite low, probably sub 10,000km. Weekly driving is all off motorway. Country roads (60-90km/h) to town / small city driving, with the odd dirt track to visit nature spots. On the motorway only for holidays and longer trips.

Weather wise, in the far south of Sweden it doesn't get too cold even in the depths of winter, Jan / Feb seems to hover around the freezing mark with some colder and some warmer days. Maybe a bit of snow but nothing compared to further north.

Not sure on petrol vs diesel vs hybrid? I think my driving habits probably rule out a diesel. I had assumed a petrol ICE but here in Sweden a lot of post 2019 SUVs are only available as Hyrbid (2019 is the last year I can get a RAV4 / CR-V non-hyrbid). I am open to the idea of a hybrid but wondering if its worth it considering my fairly low mileage. Jury seems out on whether they are more or less reliable?

So far I've been interested by the Volvo XC60 / Toyota RAV4 / Honda CR-V. The Volvo is extremely popular here in Sweden but online reports suggest Toyota is more reliable. Last 2 cars were absolute money pits so reliability is really a priority for me!

If I've missed anything just ask - thanks!

Looking for SUV suggestions - daveyjp

Subaru Forester ticks every box.

It will be an auto and mild hybrid which means it has a battery for no reason whatsoever!

Looking for SUV suggestions - movilogo

In Sweden it must be Volvo :-)

  • Toyota RAV4 or Lexus equivalent
  • Kia Sportage
  • Honda CRV

Edited by movilogo on 28/08/2024 at 11:55

Looking for SUV suggestions - HazzaC

Volvo XC60 is the most popular SUV in that class in Sweden by a country mil (not a massive suprise). It was my initial choice but then I read some conflicting reports about reliability so I'm second guessing the Volvo which would by the obvious choice.

What do you reckon conventional ICE versus hybrid? i'm still very much on the fence about it.

Looking for SUV suggestions - Palcouk

With your annual mileage dont think about Diesel

If you want reliability then Lexus, but dog size may require something else

Looking for SUV suggestions - HazzaC

I'll check for lexus here. I'm gonna scratch diesel for sure. What you think about a petrol hybrid?

Looking for SUV suggestions - Adampr

I'll check for lexus here. I'm gonna scratch diesel for sure. What you think about a petrol hybrid?

I wouldn't bother with a 'self-charging' hybrid as you probably don't do enough of the right sort of miles to justify the cost.

A PHEV might work, but there is a very limited choice and they're probably not worth it either.

I would second a Subaru; XV, Forester or Outback depending on how much space you need.

Looking for SUV suggestions - Lee Power

  • Toyota RAV4 or Lexus equivalent

Get an insurance quote first due to high theft risk.

Across Europe a lot of Toyota / Lexus dealers fit the enhanced security system secondary immobiliser.to stop the vehicle being driven away. .

Looking for SUV suggestions - FiestaOwner

Priorities are as follows

- Budget £30k (400k sek - I think the market is a bit more expensive in Sweden, but fairly comparable to the UK)

- Decent AWD

- Reliability!

- Ample storage

- Fuel economy (within reason)

Things I'm undecided on

- Auto vs manual

- Petrol vs diesel vs hyrbid vs PHEV....

.....I had a 07 suzuki vitara which got written off for unrelated reasons, and handled that hill with ease (even towed the volvo up it a few times on ice).


If I've missed anything just ask - thanks!

Sounds like you were impressed with the abilities of your old Vitara. So, how about an AWD version of the current Vitara?

Edit: Sorry just noticed the bit about the 3 dogs. Vitara might be too small.

Edited by FiestaOwner on 28/08/2024 at 17:43

Looking for SUV suggestions - HazzaC

I mean I was impressed with its abilities to handle off road driving, I can't say anything else about it impressed me all that much (tbf I think I got a lemon from the dealer)

Looking for SUV suggestions - badbusdriver

I wouldn't bother with a 'self-charging' hybrid as you probably don't do enough of the right sort of miles to justify the cost.

I'm a bit confused by this comment?

OP says mainly country roads, 60 - 90kmh limits (37- 56mph), plus town and city driving. Seems pretty much optimal for a self charge hybrid to me?

But I'd also be thinking along the lines of a Subaru (assuming you have a dealer reasonably close). I have a customer who chopped in his Merc SUV (due to dismal customer service from the dealer) for a Subaru Forester (self charge hybrid) a couple of years ago. Still has it and still likes it.

Looking for SUV suggestions - Adampr

I wouldn't bother with a 'self-charging' hybrid as you probably don't do enough of the right sort of miles to justify the cost.

I'm a bit confused by this comment?

OP says mainly country roads, 60 - 90kmh limits (37- 56mph), plus town and city driving. Seems pretty much optimal for a self charge hybrid to me?

Yeas, but only about 6,000 miles a year, which is not a lot of fuel. Personally,.I think of hybrids as excelling in urban environments / traffic.

Looking for SUV suggestions - badbusdriver

I wouldn't bother with a 'self-charging' hybrid as you probably don't do enough of the right sort of miles to justify the cost.

I'm a bit confused by this comment?

OP says mainly country roads, 60 - 90kmh limits (37- 56mph), plus town and city driving. Seems pretty much optimal for a self charge hybrid to me?

Yeas, but only about 6,000 miles a year, which is not a lot of fuel. Personally,.I think of hybrids as excelling in urban environments / traffic.

It is true that urban stop start running is where a self charge hybrid is at its most effective. But even outwith an urban environment, the hybrid system will still be doing quite a lot if the road has a lower speed limit (such as 60kmh) I believe the maximum speed in Sweden is 120kmh (just under 75mph) and at that speed, a self charge hybrid won't be doing very much (around 5-7%). But even at 90kmh, while the hybrid system obviously won't be doing as much as in town/city traffic, it will still be making a worthwhile contribution (maybe 20%).

The OP also states that reliability is the priority, and with that in mind the default choice in SUV's of the size being considered by the OP is the RAV4. But that hasn't been available as a "non hybrid" since about 2018, so whether or not you feel hybrid is worth bothering about becomes a moot point. IMO, a self charge would be perfect for the OP, certainly the RAV4, and possibly a Forester (depending on dealer situation). Maybe a Mazda CX5 as a non hybrid option.

Looking for SUV suggestions - HazzaC

Thanks for the input. Maximum speed here is 10 kmh but its pretty rare to be driving at that for any length of time, 3 lane motorways here are basically non existent so motorway = dual carraigeway that often merges into a single lane and back etc.

What is your take on hybrid cars reliability vs straight ICE? More to go wrong in terms of electrics etc? or less wear on the ICE because of the nature of operation.

Looking for SUV suggestions - Heidfirst

Toyota hybrids are incredibly reliable, that's why they are a favourite of private hire car drivers here (usually Auri/Corolla rather than RAVs but RAVs are common taxis in New York)

Looking for SUV suggestions - badbusdriver

What is your take on hybrid cars reliability vs straight ICE? More to go wrong in terms of electrics etc? or less wear on the ICE because of the nature of operation.

If you are asking me specifically, I believe already answered that question in previous post, specifically that the RAV4 was the default choice for an SUV of that size if reliability is the priority.

Want more?, in the 2023 What Car reliability survey, the RAV4 is rated as the most reliable large SUV, with the Lexus NX (also a hybrid) in 2nd place. And in the family SUV category, the top three positions are held by Lexus hybrids (NX in current and pre-facelift form plus the UX).

Looking for SUV suggestions - Adampr

The problem with a RAV4 is that it's not particularly capable off road.

It may well be fine in this instance, but one person's occasional track is another person's green lane.

Looking for SUV suggestions - HazzaC

I'll have a look online to see what people are doing with it off road. I don't want to take it to trails or anything, I just want to be able to use on gravel road in all weather when going from a to b (obviously gets pretty snowy here but that would be with studded tyres) and especially on our hill. But I'd be driving super carefully, I'm not looking to go off roading for fun.

Looking for SUV suggestions - HazzaC

If you are asking me specifically, I believe already answered that question in previous post, specifically that the RAV4 was the default choicefor an SUV of that size ifreliabilityis the priority.

Want more?, in the 2023 What Car reliability survey, the RAV4 is rated as the most reliable large SUV, with the Lexus NX (also a hybrid) in 2nd place. And in the family SUV category, the top three positions are held by Lexus hybrids (NX in current and pre-facelift form plus the UX).

Thanks, yes I think I missed that but I'm gathering Toyota is a byword for reliability :). Looking at a lot of statistics and anecdotally the recent Volvos don't seem to match up at all.

Edited by HazzaC on 30/08/2024 at 15:37

Looking for SUV suggestions - badbusdriver

The problem with a RAV4 is that it's not particularly capable off road.

Is there proof behind this?

I don't doubt that the RAV4 isn't a natural choice for off-roading, but is that due to an actual lack of ability or is it just because a nearly new SUV isn't really the kind of car you'd naturally choose to get properly off the beaten track?.

If you've ever watched any of the old Top Gear specials, you should be well aware that even a normal road car can get a lot further off road than most would expect or even consider trying. It also sounds like the OP isn't going to be doing anything extreme, just gravel tracks and the like. The OP also says that his Vitara managed fine, no doubt aided by its low kerbweight. But in terms of ground clearance and approach/departure angles, it is swings and roundabouts comparing Vitara and RAV4. The RAV4 has slightly more ground clearance, a slightly lower approach angle but a slightly higher departure angle. On suitable tyres I don't really see the Vitara being able to do much further off road than a RAV4. Another plus point for the Toyota is that being a hybrid, the electric motor will be able to provide hugely more torque (at 0 rpm) to help get a up steep hills.

I'm gathering Toyota is a byword for reliability :). Looking at a lot of statistics and anecdotally the recent Volvos don't seem to match up at all.

Yes, Volvo don't seem to fair as well as they once did, you could probably lay the blame for that with their Chinese owners Geely.

Honda too don't seem to be as reliable as they once were. Not sure about the CRV specifically, but the Jazz hybrid does seem to have some issues.

Looking for SUV suggestions - Adampr

The problem with a RAV4 is that it's not particularly capable off road.

Is there proof behind this?

Yes, I once watched a long and fairly boring video where they tested a whole bunch of 4x4s next to each other and the Rav4 wasn't great. I could look for it if I really have to, or maybe I could say John Cadogan / Scotty Kilmer said it?

Looking for SUV suggestions - DavidGlos
Not sure of prices in your part of Europe, but you could also look at the updated Ford Kuga (mk 3.5). They’ve recently released a 2.5 hybrid AWD. Possible they some lightly used or ex demo models might be around £30k.
Looking for SUV suggestions - badbusdriver

The problem with a RAV4 is that it's not particularly capable off road.

Is there proof behind this?

Yes, I once watched a long and fairly boring video where they tested a whole bunch of 4x4s next to each other and the Rav4 wasn't great. I could look for it if I really have to, or maybe I could say John Cadogan / Scotty Kilmer said it?

But what sort of conditions were they being tested on?. Also, did it actually get stuck or did it get though - just not as well as the cars it was being tested against?

I had a look for your video but couldn't find it. I did watch a couple of others in which a RAV4 was tested in some fairly demanding situations (including at high altitude up a mountain trail where the electric motor not being affected by lower oxygen levels was a major plus point), and while it wasn't a natural off-roader, it managed pretty well.

So unless what the OP plans to do with it involves major demands on ground clearance, cross-axle articulation, approach/departure/breakover angles, I'd still have no doubt that a RAV4 would manage absolutely fine.

One last thing in reference to the Subaru Forester I mentioned earlier. Having looked up the figures, it would seem (perhaps unsurprisingly) that the Forester has over an inch more ground clearance than the RAV4. So (again, assuming a dealer fairly close) maybe worth a look if you have concerns about the RAV4's ability off road.

Looking for SUV suggestions - HazzaC

The problem with a RAV4 is that it's not particularly capable off road.

Is there proof behind this?

Yes, I once watched a long and fairly boring video where they tested a whole bunch of 4x4s next to each other and the Rav4 wasn't great. I could look for it if I really have to, or maybe I could say John Cadogan / Scotty Kilmer said it?

But what sort of conditions were they being tested on?. Also, did it actually get stuck or did it get though - just not as well as the cars it was being tested against?

I had a look for your video but couldn't find it. I did watch a couple of others in which a RAV4 was tested in some fairly demanding situations (including at high altitude up a mountain trail where the electric motor not being affected by lower oxygen levels was a major plus point), and while it wasn't a natural off-roader, it managed pretty well.

So unless what the OP plans to do with it involves major demands on ground clearance, cross-axle articulation, approach/departure/breakover angles, I'd still have no doubt that a RAV4 would manage absolutely fine.

One last thing in reference to the Subaru Forester I mentioned earlier. Having looked up the figures, it would seem (perhaps unsurprisingly) that the Forester has over an inch more ground clearance than the RAV4. So (again, assuming a dealer fairly close) maybe worth a look if you have concerns about the RAV4's ability off road.

yeah tbh I looked at a few videos too and I think its fine. Maybe its not best in class for awd/4wd but that's not my concern. I guess i shouldn't have put AWD as my first priority (tho they weren't in order) as its really not the most important thing. I'm still researching but I'm pretty hot on the hyrbrid RAV4 right now, I can get one cheaper and with lower mileage than the XC60 and I can't see any advtange for the latter except trim and infotainment which I really don't care about.

Looking for SUV suggestions - Warning

In the UK, the Toyota RAV4 is generally mroe expensive then the Honda CR-V.

Toyota's hybrid technology is proven and reliable, and it doesn’t come with a manual gearbox.

I purchased a Mk4 Honda CR-V (2018), which I think is a great car. The infotainment system feels a little dated. Although, it has everything you need such as Bluetooth, DAB radio, phone calling, reverse camera. I tend to use my phone for navigation rather than relying on the built-in Garmin sat-nav. I like the Honda CRV has it real buttons, but I do wish the system. I wish there was a third party info-statement to replace it. There are some for sale, but prefer a big name replacement. It has a real spare tyre (skinny kind). Real handbrake lever ;-)

The Honda CR-V 2.0 i-MMD (hybrid) is also worth considering, as it offers an updated infotainment system and AWD. Due to hybrid nature, it is n't manual gearbox. If you can find one at a good price, it’s a good choice.

I did consider the Toyota RAV4 and Lexus RX450, but their higher theft rates made me reconsider. Insurance was expensive too.

I still prefer lower cars, but with the current trend towards SUV styling, my options were limited.

Looking for SUV suggestions - HazzaC

Thanks! To tell you the truth if I could drive a car with the stylings of something from the early 00s (actual buttons and knobs and levers and such like) but with the mileage and engineering of a car from a few years ago then that would be my choice!! If I was better with a spanner (and had the time) I'd probably keep an older car on the road but that isn't an option right now.

Like you I'll probably still use google maps on my phone rather than the nav on the infotainment.

I'll check out the CR-V, it had crossed my radar, people just seemed to rate the reliability of the RAV-4 slightly higher than the CR-V (alot of this is anecodatal of course). I'd have to compare price and insurance, I'm in Sweden so it will all be different here.

Looking for SUV suggestions - Adampr

Link to long and quite boring video here

youtu.be/aPYMHt1Kt8s?si=xmVNmiaqCDCGswwB

As I suggested before, and has since been reinforced, it's probably not relevant in this case, but still useful for those who are thinking of tackling some actual off-road use.

Looking for SUV suggestions - alan1302

Link to long and quite boring video here

youtu.be/aPYMHt1Kt8s?si=xmVNmiaqCDCGswwB

As I suggested before, and has since been reinforced, it's probably not relevant in this case, but still useful for those who are thinking of tackling some actual off-road use.

I'm assuming you were not meant to be linking to a lawn mower video?! :-)

Looking for SUV suggestions - Adampr

Link to long and quite boring video here

youtu.be/aPYMHt1Kt8s?si=xmVNmiaqCDCGswwB

As I suggested before, and has since been reinforced, it's probably not relevant in this case, but still useful for those who are thinking of tackling some actual off-road use.

I'm assuming you were not meant to be linking to a lawn mower video?! :-)

Its a great lawnmower I'm sure. No idea what happened there. This is the link (hopefully)

youtu.be/SsEFOH7KP-Q?si=CO3ApkJteBT4ppgQ

Looking for SUV suggestions - HazzaC

Thanks! That looks fine tbh. Nice looking robot mower too.

Looking for SUV suggestions - badbusdriver

To tell you the truth if I could drive a car with the stylings of something from the early 00s (actual buttons and knobs and levers and such like) but with the mileage and engineering of a car from a few years ago then that would be my choice!! If I was better with a spanner (and had the time) I'd probably keep an older car on the road but that isn't an option right now.

Not sure I'd agree that the engineering on more recent cars is actually better. In a lot of cases, they seem to be designed with a finite life built in, in order to get punters in to the latest models.

In another fairly recent thread I mentioned a 2005 Volvo XC70* I'd seen for sale on a website I frequent. Low miles, low number of owners and in what appears to be mint condition. And as I said to the OP on that thread, I'd sooner have had that over any of Volvo's current offerings, and I'd fully expect it to be more reliable long term. With your usage and milage, I don't see any issues in getting a well looked after example of a 20 year old car which is fundamentally reliable. If you choose wisely, it needn't require much (if any) more "looking after" than a 3 year old car.

*Being in Sweden, i'd have thought there would be a ready supply of the XC70, or its predecessor the V70 XC (neither of which were that common in the UK).

Looking for SUV suggestions - HazzaC

I appreciate what you're saying re: a used XC70 but the experience I had with my last Volvo (V70) of a 2004 vintage was not great, it had just got to the point where everything needed to be replaced and was setting me back thousands a year, this was at 180,000 km. The climate can be harsh on cars up here and cars tend to accrue a high mileage because of the distances travelled (things are just further apart here), at least thats my experience (perhaps I just got unlucky!).

Looking for SUV suggestions - YorkshireRob

In a similar position myself having run two Freelander 2's for the last 15 years.

Was loking at latest RAV4 hybrids too but there seemed to be 2 major drawbacks from the research I did. One was that they are the most stolen / targeted vehicle (here in the UK) and the other was a battery drain problem meaning if you park it a few days, it won't start. Same for Lexus too I believe. Unless they've sorted the battery problem by now?

Looking for SUV suggestions - Warning

The Maxda CX-5 might be worth a look too. I have not tried a CX-5. It does well in reviews. They make AWD variants.

Looking for SUV suggestions - Nsar1

If you must have AWD then Subaru, but in my experience of 27 years living up a steep hill, half a mile off the road, winter tyres (not all weather which is marketing twaddle) on 2wd beats normal tyres on AWD. An XC60 under £30k might be quite old, but 2018 is probably doable for a fairly low spec one