You’ll notice there aren’t many X-trails left on the road of this vintage, the reason for binning them is usually engine related with the 2.2 diesels which are regarded as fragile. Turbo failure, knackered injectors, fuel pump failure and they have a nasty habit of eating timing chains. I wouldn’t touch one with a ten foot barge pole nor would I recommend a diesel SUV at this age or money. A large saloon or hatch like a Mondeo, Honda Accord, Mazda 6 or Toyota Avensis preferably with a petrol engine would make for a much more comfortable ride than your typical firm riding SUV plus running costs and reliability would be less taxing. A Volvo S60 or V70 could be worthy bet but the petrols are a bit greedy and the diesels can be troublesome. The excellent seats are worth the price however.
That's very helpful SLO, thanks. Doubtful whether I could afford one of the models you mention on my budget , but I'll see what's out there.
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Why not consider a new Jazz on a PCP?
The fuel economy is simply brilliant, 80mpg is easily achievable.
It’s nice to drive, easy to live with and they hold their value so your PCP will have good retention figures.
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I suppose I might consider a PCP eventually, but it would have to wait till a few short term commitments are paid off.
What I neglected to mention was that we're in the process of moving house, so its probably not the very best time to be changing our car. Just thought that perhaps an old but outwardly tidy looking X Trail with not much mileage would prove to be a magic bullet for her back problems. Good thing I never seriously considered doing it, and that you guys have removed any lingering chance that I would.
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I suppose I might consider a PCP eventually, but it would have to wait till a few short term commitments are paid off.
What I neglected to mention was that we're in the process of moving house, so its probably not the very best time to be changing our car. Just thought that perhaps an old but outwardly tidy looking X Trail with not much mileage would prove to be a magic bullet for her back problems. Good thing I never seriously considered doing it, and that you guys have removed any lingering chance that I would.
TBH now's not a good time to be changing cars unless you're trading down size/performance-wise and have a really good car to either PX or sell. Whilst the earlier Jazzes are decent cars, monetarily-wise they probably aren't worth that much and you'll be buying something where you'll be taking a chance on its future reliability because you can't guarantee how it was used/maintained before the sale.
If the Jazz's ride quality was an issue, is there any way you can improve it by either changing out the wheels and tyres for smaller diameter wheels (assuming its not already at the smallest the car [brakes] can take) and narrower, higher profile tyres? And/or replacing suspension parts (e.g. the springs/dampers) if they are worn through use (if you've owned the car for a long time, did it used to be a lot better on that score - an indicator that suspension wear may be to blame).
I ask as I've done this on my 15yo Mazda3, changing from 205/55 R16s to 195/65 R15s (and the alloys to match) when one of my OEM alloys had corroded enough that the tyre leaked, and it only cost me about £100 more to replace all 4 tyres and 4 alloys on 15in than 1 alloy and 4 tyres (they were near life expired) - about £580 in all. All ok as per the handbook and no worries on the insurance front either.
The ride has improved more than just due to the new tyres (the old ones weren't that bad on that score) and saved me about £1200 needed to replace the springs and dampers (front only - I think).
Or one or more of the above and as BBD says, change the seats or add some kind of purpose-made support. Having good seats and, for the driver at least, a decent level of seat and sterring wheel adjustment (combined with as little pedal and sterring wheel offset as possible) goes a long way to get a comfortable in-car experience.
The problem for is that most older cars will because of wear have firmer suspension than an equivalent newer one with similar suspension and tyres. Finding good'un that is reliable and at a reasonable price may well be tricky - I don't envy your choices here.
Might be worth you having a go (with all your criteria added if possible) on the HJ 'car chooser'. It's not a great tool, but it might push you in the right direction if you're lucky.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/chooser/
Hopefully someone else in a similar predicament might be able to give some more actual choices. I suspect you may have to go for a lower-spec model to ensure it has reasonable profile (min 55 but preferably 60-65) tyres - preferably on a common size of tyre (mine are VERY common) to save a LOT on ongoing costs that fits your other needs and doesn't handle like a tractor.
I often see cars similar aged to mine that are shod on sensible wheels and tyres - rarely though do I see them for sale, presumably because they are reliable, comfortable workhorses. Might be worth you keeping an eye out when out for walks in your area/work/shopping etc for cars that fit the bill in this respect even if they aren't for sale - at least that can help you know what may be possible.
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I suppose I might consider a PCP eventually, but it would have to wait till a few short term commitments are paid off.
What I neglected to mention was that we're in the process of moving house, so its probably not the very best time to be changing our car. Just thought that perhaps an old but outwardly tidy looking X Trail with not much mileage would prove to be a magic bullet for her back problems. Good thing I never seriously considered doing it, and that you guys have removed any lingering chance that I would.
TBH now's not a good time to be changing cars unless you're trading down size/performance-wise and have a really good car to either PX or sell. Whilst the earlier Jazzes are decent cars, monetarily-wise they probably aren't worth that much and you'll be buying something where you'll be taking a chance on its future reliability because you can't guarantee how it was used/maintained before the sale.
If the Jazz's ride quality was an issue, is there any way you can improve it by either changing out the wheels and tyres for smaller diameter wheels (assuming its not already at the smallest the car [brakes] can take) and narrower, higher profile tyres? And/or replacing suspension parts (e.g. the springs/dampers) if they are worn through use (if you've owned the car for a long time, did it used to be a lot better on that score - an indicator that suspension wear may be to blame).
I ask as I've done this on my 15yo Mazda3, changing from 205/55 R16s to 195/65 R15s (and the alloys to match) when one of my OEM alloys had corroded enough that the tyre leaked, and it only cost me about £100 more to replace all 4 tyres and 4 alloys on 15in than 1 alloy and 4 tyres (they were near life expired) - about £580 in all. All ok as per the handbook and no worries on the insurance front either.
The ride has improved more than just due to the new tyres (the old ones weren't that bad on that score) and saved me about £1200 needed to replace the springs and dampers (front only - I think).
Or one or more of the above and as BBD says, change the seats or add some kind of purpose-made support. Having good seats and, for the driver at least, a decent level of seat and sterring wheel adjustment (combined with as little pedal and sterring wheel offset as possible) goes a long way to get a comfortable in-car experience.
The problem for is that most older cars will because of wear have firmer suspension than an equivalent newer one with similar suspension and tyres. Finding good'un that is reliable and at a reasonable price may well be tricky - I don't envy your choices here.
Might be worth you having a go (with all your criteria added if possible) on the HJ 'car chooser'. It's not a great tool, but it might push you in the right direction if you're lucky.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/chooser/
Hopefully someone else in a similar predicament might be able to give some more actual choices. I suspect you may have to go for a lower-spec model to ensure it has reasonable profile (min 55 but preferably 60-65) tyres - preferably on a common size of tyre (mine are VERY common) to save a LOT on ongoing costs that fits your other needs and doesn't handle like a tractor.
I often see cars similar aged to mine that are shod on sensible wheels and tyres - rarely though do I see them for sale, presumably because they are reliable, comfortable workhorses. Might be worth you keeping an eye out when out for walks in your area/work/shopping etc for cars that fit the bill in this respect even if they aren't for sale - at least that can help you know what may be possible.
Thanks for the effort you've put into that post, Andy, its much appreciated. I'm pretty sure that our Jazz is running on the smallest wheels it can take, but I'm certainly intrigued by the idea of changing the seats. I'm no expert, but our short-lived and unfortunate dalliance with the B-Max had one positive feature, which was that the front seats were better. They had a wrap around design (Recaro?) that gave my wife and her dodgy back more support, and if its feasible to fit them, changing the bog standard seats for something like that. might give the Jazz a new lease of life. But first I'm going to see what SLO has found for me. ;0)
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TBH a lot of seating comfort issues can be resolved by adjusting them and the steering column position.
As someone with back problems myself over the years (runs in the family - my dad has had them too), I went from having no issues to terrible back pain (which continued to when I was sleeping in bed back home) on my old mid 90s Micra when I changed jobs from one where all the driving was on local 30-40mph roads, mostly at slower speeds for a 15-30 minute journey to much faster (clearer) roads, including twisty country roads on a longer 45-60 minute journey.
A work colleague gave me a driving position ergonomics guide he had from his Vectra (shows how long ago this was), which shouwed me how to best adjust the seat and steering column.
What appeared to make the most difference (the pain went away afterwards and I've never had back troubles from driving since) was that the seat was 0.5 inches too far away from the steering wheel/pedals.
It meant I was always stretching (I never noticed) to reach the pedals (the legs should be slightly bent even when fully depressing the pedals so you never move your bum on the seat) and my arms were not bent enough when holding the steering wheel at the (furthest away) 12 o'clock position (it looked fine when I was holding it at the normal 'quarter to three position).
With more modern cars like my Mazda3, I also can adjust the steering column for reach, which makes it even better (I have realtively short arms for my leg length). It took me a while to know what to adjust mine to, but it made a BIG difference.
Similarly I will NEVER buy a car which does not have a decent left foot rest. Some people can tolerate not having one - I cannot, especially for longer journeys.
'Bucket' seats can be useful, but only if their shape suits the back shape of the driver. Seats and steering columns with a decent amount of adjustment (mine also has [manual] lumbar adjustment) but with reasonable cushioning and side bolsters (rather than 'like chairs' as some still appear to be) to reduce lateral movement (worsened if the seat and/or steering column isn't well adjusted) when cornering at speed are very good.
Edited by Engineer Andy on 06/12/2021 at 12:58
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Are you honestly considering changing a 63 plate Jazz with 37,000 miles on the clock, a car that is always near the top in satisfaction surveys for an almost 14 year old X-Trail which combines the desirable attributes of being a low mileage diesel fitted with a DPF. Then add to that the fact it came out as the least reliable car in a recent survey I read.
No wonder your wife almost ripped your head off.
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Are you honestly considering changing a 63 plate Jazz with 37,000 miles on the clock, a car that is always near the top in satisfaction surveys for an almost 14 year old X-Trail which combines the desirable attributes of being a low mileage diesel fitted with a DPF. Then add to that the fact it came out as the least reliable car in a recent survey I read.
No wonder your wife almost ripped your head off.
Guilty as charged to some extent, though my intention was to get some expert advice about the model before giving the matter any serious thought. We had a 1990 Primera for a few years and it was a brilliant car, but from what folks are saying it appears that Nissans have suffered a catastrophic loss of quality in the intervening years.
So I've had that advice, and the idea that popped into my head has now popped out again.
Edited by argybargy on 05/12/2021 at 16:19
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You’ll notice there aren’t many X-trails left on the road of this vintage, the reason for binning them is usually engine related with the 2.2 diesels which are regarded as fragile. Turbo failure, knackered injectors, fuel pump failure and they have a nasty habit of eating timing chains. I wouldn’t touch one with a ten foot barge pole nor would I recommend a diesel SUV at this age or money.
A 2008 X-Trail would be the 2nd gen model, as far as I know the 2.2 diesel was gone by then. Diesel is by far the most common, it was a 2.0 with either 150 or 173bhp. There was also a choice of two n/a petrols, a 2.0 and a 2.5 (both 4 cyl) with either 140 or 170bhp, but even if you wanted one, they are like hens teeth.
If you are willing to take a punt on a diesel, how about a Dacia Duster?. £7.5k is enough to get into 2015/2016 car and that 1.5DCI (also from Renault) is more reliable than many other modern diesels. Not sure about ride comfort though.
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Completely agree with this. Honda -> Nissan is a complete and utter downgrade, mechanically speaking and reliability-wise. I was looking at a Qashqai for a family member recently, so I've sat in some Nissan's and the tech can be convincingly good, but everything seems cheap. Add to that the utter lack of reliability Nissan's have across almost their entire board of cars. They're junk almost as soon as they roll of the line.
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Absolutely agree about the crashy ride in these SUV's. My FIL is on his third one as he really like the diesel towing capacity. When sitting in the back as a passenger the ride is harsh and reminds me the ride in my dad's old pug 404 estate bar the diesel stench this car used to rick of.
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With regards to the discomfort, have you looked into some kind of orthopaedic cushion and/or back support for the Jazz's seats?. Might be worth a look as a temporary solution while used car prices are still as high as they are.
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With regards to the discomfort, have you looked into some kind of orthopaedic cushion and/or back support for the Jazz's seats?. Might be worth a look as a temporary solution while used car prices are still as high as they are.
Tried a number of them, BBD, with varying degrees of success. One is now on the couch in the living room, the other lies unused on the back seat of the car. Turning back to an auto might also be a good move because I'll be the first to admit that my gear changes aren't the smoothest. And yes, used car prices are utterly ridiculous right now, rendering my previous hopes for a decent part ex on this Jazz pretty well meaningless.
Edit, I haven't looked at the Duster, no. If anyone can confirm that the ride quality isn't terrible, and whether they do an auto ( yes, the X Trail I was looking at was a manual, being the other reason why I received a broadside) then I'll file that one under "Not a terrible idea"
Edit again: I've just had a look on that well known auction site and all the Dusters in our price bracket are manuals. So it would depend on the ride if that model doesn't come in auto guise..
Edited by argybargy on 05/12/2021 at 16:50
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“ Edit, I haven't looked at the Duster, no. If anyone can confirm that the ride quality isn't terrible, and whether they do an auto”
They didn’t offer an auto until the latest model so it’s not in budget and very rare.
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Absolutely agree about the crashy ride in these SUV's. My FIL is on his third one as he really like the diesel towing capacity. When sitting in the back as a passenger the ride is harsh and reminds me the ride in my dad's old pug 404 estate bar the diesel stench this car used to rick of.
Thanks for that.
I can confirm that my interest in the X Trail is now consigned to the dustbin of history.
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Remind me again what the budget is and the rough search area. I’ll look for a few options that’ll offer reliability but more oomph and comfort. How is this to be financed also?
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My 2012 Jazz is on 175/65/15 Cross Climate tyres run at 2-3 psi less than advocated for normal tyres. By no means perfect but the ride is not bad.
The Optional top of the range Jazz (EX) had 185/55/16 tyres .Lower tyre depth and wider tyres = harsher ride.
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My 2012 Jazz is on 175/65/15 Cross Climate tyres run at 2-3 psi less than advocated for normal tyres. By no means perfect but the ride is not bad.
The Optional top of the range Jazz (EX) had 185/55/16 tyres .Lower tyre depth and wider tyres = harsher ride.
Mine's on Michelins also, same size as your Cross Climates but without checking in the dark I think they're Energy Savers. I'm a touch obsessive about tyre pressures being absolutely spot on, but its an interesting suggestion, thanks.
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Remind me again what the budget is and the rough search area. I’ll look for a few options that’ll offer reliability but more oomph and comfort. How is this to be financed also?
Thank you.
I'd hope to have £7500, which I know isn't a great deal in the current pricing climate. This would be part ex and cash.
Rough search area up to 100 miles max from postcode CH6. Actually, best make that 50 miles in case I have to take the missus. ;0)
Edited by argybargy on 05/12/2021 at 20:38
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Think you could find a little tiny bit more down the back of the sofa for this very low mileage one owner Toyota main dealer approved used Avensis 1.8 auto with leather seats? No pictures but if this is as nice as I suspect it will be it’s a perfect option. No diesel related reliability worries and a bombproof engine and gearbox. I can vouch that the ride is decently comfortable but while I find the seats in mine ok my wife doesn’t like it so best making sure swmbo is happy via a good test drive first. I intend on keeping mine until it explodes which I suspect will be sometime after the next ice age.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112030196644
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How about a Jaaaaag? The only reliable one made in recent years was the Ford V6 petrol XF 3.0 and here’s one with low miles and history. Only downsides are ropey dealer advertising it as a private sale to save money on his advert (I did the same but with cars under £1500 and was very clear to anyone who contacted me) and near £600 a year road tax. Nice thing to drive though and these engines will do 250k plus. You’d also get to say you have half a V12 Aston Martin as this is essentially that. They stick two of these Ford 3.0 V6’s together on a common crank and hey presto a glorious sounding V12.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109307954840
Edited by SLO76 on 05/12/2021 at 22:02
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Oldie but a goldie, A low mileage, one owner Lexus IS250 auto. Bulletproof engine and gearbox but it’s a bit thirsty and it’s old. Dealer will chew your arm off to get a shiny wee Jazz to sell in its place. A private plate will hide its age well.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111239878940
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Oldie but a goldie, A low mileage, one owner Lexus IS250 auto. Bulletproof engine and gearbox but it’s a bit thirsty and it’s old. Dealer will chew your arm off to get a shiny wee Jazz to sell in its place. A private plate will hide its age well. I just found a great car on Auto Trader: www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111239878940
Nice find SLO, this one is not even broken in at 44k, and it is the top of the range and it will take E10 fuel. Tyres are a bit of mess but a full set of good ones will set you about £400 (slightly different width on rear and front). Once I you sit and drive in one of these you forget the road tax and 32mpg average.
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Oldie but a goldie, A low mileage, one owner Lexus IS250 auto. Bulletproof engine and gearbox but it’s a bit thirsty and it’s old. Dealer will chew your arm off to get a shiny wee Jazz to sell in its place. A private plate will hide its age well. I just found a great car on Auto Trader: www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111239878940
Thanks for making the effort, SLO.
The Avensis looks a cracker and I know the model gets a regular mention on here when recommendations are sought. But it is, sadly, just a bit beyond our current budget.
The Jag would probably be a stretch for me in terms of running costs, but my brother might well be interested. He was looking for an XF last year, and in case he still has a hankering I'll send him the link.
However, the Lexus looks pretty well ideal. Low mileage, loads of power and an auto box. We don't do much mileage so fuel economy wouldn't be a huge issue. Good looking car too. Presumably being a luxury brand one could expect a comfy ride, despite the car's age? It so happens that I've had my eye on a private plate for a few years. Its still available and would look very nice on this particular vehicle. I need to have the conversation about spending this money whilst waiting to move house, but if SWMBO wants comfort, the price might be worth paying.
Thanks again.
Edited by argybargy on 06/12/2021 at 07:37
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As much as I like the Lexus I’d take out a zero percent credit card and pay the extra for the Avensis as it’ll be much cheaper and more reliable to run in the long term. Comfort will be similar especially as this one has the rare leather seats. The Lexus is well made but it’s turning 15yrs old and parts are expensive when they’re (rarely) needed.
Edited by SLO76 on 06/12/2021 at 09:33
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As much as I like the Lexus I’d take out a zero percent credit card and pay the extra for the Avensis as it’ll be much cheaper and more reliable to run in the long term. Comfort will be similar especially as this one has the rare leather seats. The Lexus is well made but it’s turning 15yrs old and parts are expensive when they’re (rarely) needed.
Noted, thanks. The Lexus is a lovely looking car, a real head turner. Very easy to overlook the age when confronted with such a pretty picture. .
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As much as I like the Lexus I’d take out a zero percent credit card and pay the extra for the Avensis as it’ll be much cheaper and more reliable to run in the long term. Comfort will be similar especially as this one has the rare leather seats. The Lexus is well made but it’s turning 15yrs old and parts are expensive when they’re (rarely) needed.
I own the T27 Avensis and a 47k IS250 SE, the tyres and fuel are more expensive for the IS250 but parts generally cost very similar cash to the Toyota even at the dealers.
The Lexus dealers have some good prices for service parts (see for example lexuspartsdirect.co.uk/) but ECP and the like also have some good deals.
I am not sure I would want to change the exhaust on the IS for Lexus supplied one as this is running close to £1k but the aftermarket stainless pipes are similar money to other makes. Future classic maybe?
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Practical and reasonably comfortable workhorse. Useful small estate and simple engine and gearbox that should prove robust. This one’s a main dealer car too which at this age likely means whoever had it bought another Vauxhall which suggests the car was good to them.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111159595418
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I've been driving around in a Citroen C3 rental in Spain for the last week. It has a poverty spec diesel engine which I would not choose (think 6th to 5th gear on a minor motorway incline) but comfort wise I have been very impressed.
High seating position, compliant suspension, comfortable seats. Compared to the Seat Ibiza the previous two weeks there is no comparison.
You may be able to get a lowish mileage post 2016 model for close to your budget!
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I've been driving around in a Citroen C3 rental in Spain for the last week. It has a poverty spec diesel engine which I would not choose (think 6th to 5th gear on a minor motorway incline) but comfort wise I have been very impressed.
High seating position, compliant suspension, comfortable seats. Compared to the Seat Ibiza the previous two weeks there is no comparison.
You may be able to get a lowish mileage post 2016 model for close to your budget!
Engine options are the issue here however. Most autos in budget will use the fragile 1.4/1.6 VTi motor which is well known for timing chain failures or the early 3cyl 1.2 which again had a few issues early on. Comfy but unreliable. The 1.6 diesel is known for turbo failure and while the older 1.4 diesel is robust it’s noisy and glacial. A later manual 1.2 petrol s quite an appealing little car though.
Edited by SLO76 on 05/12/2021 at 22:21
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I've been driving around in a Citroen C3 rental in Spain for the last week. It has a poverty spec diesel engine which I would not choose (think 6th to 5th gear on a minor motorway incline) but comfort wise I have been very impressed.
High seating position, compliant suspension, comfortable seats. Compared to the Seat Ibiza the previous two weeks there is no comparison.
You may be able to get a lowish mileage post 2016 model for close to your budget!
Cheers, Terry. I'll bear that one in mind.
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Practical and reasonably comfortable workhorse. Useful small estate and simple engine and gearbox that should prove robust. This one’s a main dealer car too which at this age likely means whoever had it bought another Vauxhall which suggests the car was good to them. I just found a great car on Auto Trader: www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111159595418
Thanks again. NIce and local, too, plus its a slightly newer car.
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Engine options are the issue here however. Most autos in budget will use the fragile 1.4/1.6 VTi motor which is well known for timing chain failures or the early 3cyl 1.2 which again had a few issues early on. Comfy but unreliable. The 1.6 diesel is known for turbo failure and while the older 1.4 diesel is robust it’s noisy and glacial. A later manual 1.2 petrol s quite an appealing little car though.
Another downside here (Citroen C3) is that the auto will be a single clutch automated manual.
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Engine options are the issue here however. Most autos in budget will use the fragile 1.4/1.6 VTi motor which is well known for timing chain failures or the early 3cyl 1.2 which again had a few issues early on. Comfy but unreliable. The 1.6 diesel is known for turbo failure and while the older 1.4 diesel is robust it’s noisy and glacial. A later manual 1.2 petrol s quite an appealing little car though.
Another downside here (Citroen C3) is that the auto will be a single clutch automated manual.
And based on local to me experiences of owners, it's runawayfrom..
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