Not all electric cars are equal | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

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Wed 24 Feb 2021 18:23

Not all electric cars are equal - badbusdriver

Reading a test in January's Car Magazine comparing the VW ID.3, Polestar 2 and Tesla Model 3. I know the VW isn't in the same category as the other two, but the test was more about 'early adopters' rather than direct competitors.

But I was perplexed as to why the Polestar, which has a slightly bigger battery than the Tesla (78kWh vs 75kWh) has a range some 60 miles shorter. During the article it was mentioned that it was because of Tesla's much more extensive experience with battery management. I'm sure that certainly plays a part, but looking at the specs page, another glaring candidate for the difference became apparent. The Telsa weighs 1847kg, not exactly a lightweight granted, but the Polestar weighs 2123kg!. That extra 276kg is going to be felt when accelerating and going uphill and is surely a factor in the range. In fact the Tesla is only 53kg heavier than the ID.3, which itself is around the size of a Golf.

For the benefit of the anti-electric car brigade, I must point out that they were very critical of the public charging situation. Mentioned were, "dramatically varying electricity prices, long queues, out of order docking stations, illegible displays, randomly reduced charging power and busy hotlines"!. It is this which means having an electric van for my work isn't really viable at the moment due to no off street parking.

But as the electric future draws nearer, it will be the miles per kWh folk will be looking at rather than mpg (especially if range anxiety is going to be a problem). Official figures say the Tesla does 3.79 miles per kWh, the Polestar does 3.22, but the VW was the best of the trio at 3.96 miles per kWh. In the same issue, in the 'our cars' section, where a Zoe is being run as a long term test, the official miles per kWh is given as 4.6, but the actual figure (2 months so far) is 4.2. Still pretty good compared to the brand new ID.3 though.

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Wed 24 Feb 2021 20:00

Not all electric cars are equal - Xileno

Efficiency on the road in terms of miles per kwh is one thing but efficient at recharging is I think more important. In this area Tesla have wiped the floor with the competition, having their own bespoke network of chargers. I've mentioned on here quite recently the Harry's Garage test of the Jaguar I-Pace and the Tesla model 3. Both great cars but one a pain to recharge as it's dependent on third-party chargers, the other its own network.

Tesla have it absolutely nailed.

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Wed 24 Feb 2021 20:06

Not all electric cars are equal - badbusdriver

Efficiency on the road in terms of miles per kwh is one thing but efficient at recharging is I think more important. In this area Tesla have wiped the floor with the competition, having their own bespoke network of chargers. I've mentioned on here quite recently the Harry's Garage test of the Jaguar I-Pace and the Tesla model 3. Both great cars but one a pain to recharge as it's dependent on third-party chargers, the other its own network.

Tesla have it absolutely nailed.

And I believe you can also use third-party chargers with the Tesla, should you not be close to one of their own.

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Wed 24 Feb 2021 20:15

Not all electric cars are equal - Metropolis.

Blast, I was clinging on to miles per gallon as the one of the last bastions of the anti-metric brigade to which I unapologetically belong. Fortunately nobody really refers to litres per kilometre but it looks like we will start off with metric for electronic range. Before anyone criticises me, would you look at the time? that is not metric either :-)

BBD is this your post that disappeared earlier?

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Wed 24 Feb 2021 20:21

Not all electric cars are equal - badbusdriver

BBD is this your post that disappeared earlier?

No, it was another thread.

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Sat 27 Feb 2021 12:17

Not all electric cars are equal - straggler100

Most of the rest of the world does kilometres per litre.

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Sat 27 Feb 2021 16:52

Not all electric cars are equal - galileo

Most of the rest of the world does kilometres per litre.

So what? Our road signs and speed limits use miles.

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Sun 28 Feb 2021 09:23

Not all electric cars are equal - straggler100

"Fortunately nobody really refers to litres per kilometre"

I was referring to this. And pointing out that other people actually do refer to kilometres and litres.

Edited by straggler100 on 28/02/2021 at 09:24

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Wed 24 Feb 2021 20:59

Not all electric cars are equal - craig-pd130

And today Hyundai is starting on the world's most expensive hybrid/EV recall to fix battery problems across its range. $900M is the estimated cost to replace over 80,000 batteries globally.

I'm sure EVs and the charging infrastructure will get there in the end, but it ain't there yet.

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 06:53

Not all electric cars are equal - badbusdriver

Going back to the Polestar two, I've seen a few of them on the road now as well as in magazines. Not a bad looking car, but I wonder if other forum members, like myself, are catching more than a whiff of MK3 Cortina about the shape of it?!.

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 09:21

Not all electric cars are equal - John F

And what about Nio? They seem to be working on battery exchange as well as recharging when re-energising is required.

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 09:47

Not all electric cars are equal - Sofa Spud

And what about Nio? They seem to be working on battery exchange as well as recharging when re-energising is required.

Battery exchange might work well with fleets where the ownership or leasing package includes extra batteries and the equipment needed to recharge and exchange them but I can't see it being adopted for privately owned cars. But maybe if a manufacturer has an eye on fleet markets, they might make all their electric vehicles with quick-change batteries anyway.

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 11:01

Not all electric cars are equal - nick62

they might make all their electric vehicles with quick-change batteries anyway.

Some manufacturers can't even make the headlight bulbs "quick-change".

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 12:30

Not all electric cars are equal - madf

Can you imagine th availabiilty of quick change batteries out in the wilds? (ie not cities or busy motorways)

?Sorry sir, our only customer has taken our battery: you will have to wait 4 hours...

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 12:33

Not all electric cars are equal - Avant

This is somehow reminiscent of what one reads about the old days of stage-coaches, where horses were changed en route.

I've never discovered how that worked logistically, or who owned the horses.

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 13:32

Not all electric cars are equal - Metropolis.

As much as I detest electric cars, I also recognise that infrastructure arguments are non-starters. We live in a capitalist society, where there is a consumer demand there will be a supply. I suppose people said the same thing about petrol cars when they first arrived.

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 16:45

Not all electric cars are equal - Terry W

Comparison with the impact of petrol cars is spot on. Before WW1 (1914) they were mostly expensive indulgences for those who could afford them, driven mainly on tracks not roads.

Petrol stations were principally a post WW1 development, before then fuel was bought from chemists, hotels, general store in 2 gal cans.

The local garage for repairs and servicing needed a critical volume of vehicles on the road - in 1918 there were ~100,000 private cars..

Over the following 10 years most of the basic infrastructure was built and by 1930 (12 years later) there was a 10 fold increase in vehicle numbers.

I am sure that in 1920 many felt that infrastructure would be a huge barrier, and that financially and operationally the future favoured existing horse, rail and steam.. They were clearly wrong!

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 19:53

Not all electric cars are equal - kiss (keep it simple)

Interesting thoughts about swap-out batteries. Todays electric cars aren't designed for that option; too many connections, coolant pipes etc. It could work with lower performance vehicles, but for me it would be best to have a universal battery type. Small vehicles take one battery, larger vehicles two or three etc. but still able to run on just one. Then there would only need to be a single type kept in stock for exchanges. You could even take a half-charged one if that was the only one available. You would just pay for the amount of charge in the battery. Unfortunately this idea would require manufacturers to agree on specifications which is probably unlikely.

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 20:45

Not all electric cars are equal - sammy1

This is somehow reminiscent of what one reads about the old days of stage-coaches, where horses were changed en route.

I've never discovered how that worked logistically, or who owned the horses

Wells Fargo held the first franchise. Coaches had wooden wheels, were open to the elements and had little suspension and poor brakes. They were available with either 4 or 6 horse power and had a limited range The driver could increase the speed by throwing pebbles at the horses or slapping the reins and giving various voice commands. The main fuel was hay and horse nuts. There were frequent breakdowns, wheels falling off. horses getting shot, poison waterholes and the roads were poor. For some strange reason the stages and refuelling stations were always attacked by the indigenous natives who could not see the advantages of progress. Eventually things gave way to the Ironhorse and then the motor car.

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 21:01

Not all electric cars are equal - badbusdriver

This is somehow reminiscent of what one reads about the old days of stage-coaches, where horses were changed en route.

I've never discovered how that worked logistically, or who owned the horses

Wells Fargo held the first franchise. Coaches had wooden wheels, were open to the elements and had little suspension and poor brakes. They were available with either 4 or 6 horse power and had a limited range The driver could increase the speed by throwing pebbles at the horses or slapping the reins and giving various voice commands. The main fuel was hay and horse nuts. There were frequent breakdowns, wheels falling off. horses getting shot, poison waterholes and the roads were poor. For some strange reason the stages and refuelling stations were always attacked by the indigenous natives who could not see the advantages of progress. Eventually things gave way to the Ironhorse and then the motor car.

The Mongol empire was doing that (single riders, not a stagecoach) in the 13th century. A messenger would ride around 25 miles, then swap his for a fresh horse and carry on.

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 22:52

Not all electric cars are equal - Avant

Anyone know how the stagecoach system worked in the UK?

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Sat 27 Feb 2021 12:18

Not all electric cars are equal - straggler100

Why do you detest electric cars? Is it the instant torque? The quietness? The lack of moving parts under the bonnet?

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Thu 25 Feb 2021 23:26

Not all electric cars are equal - Metropolis.

I dont know how it worked back then but I would like to think people would have been debating in back rooms over which carriage maker and breed of horse combination was best, most reliable, better for long runs and which to avoid if only making short journeys.

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Fri 26 Feb 2021 00:00

Not all electric cars are equal - sammy1

I seem to remember that Jane Eyre used the coach service. It ran on some sort of time table and was a " request stop". I don't remember her paying any fare though! I don't know what they did if the coach was full, try again tomorrow perhaps.

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Sun 28 Feb 2021 09:51

Not all electric cars are equal - daveyK_UK

I have heard a good early report regarding the MG 5 electric estate.
Still early days but they are impressed so far.

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Mon 1 Mar 2021 11:05

Not all electric cars are equal - Avant

The MG5 and the ZS EV are quite a bit cheaper than other EVs of their size - indeed cheaper than smaller ones like the Mini and Honda E.

The downside is that apparently their range is only about 160 miles. So yer pays for what yer gets. But if you neef the space and don't need a long range, one of these would do very well.

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