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In general terms avoid any cars with large wheels and low profile tyres. They might look good but do not do the ride any favours and given the roads we have I woud argue are not fir for purpose!
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What’s the budget, £1,500 or £15000? How are you financing it? and where roughly are you?
6k cash and I'm in Yorkshire. I looked at a Civic 1.6 diesel (having searched this forum and seen your recommendation). It drove brilliantly and I absolutely loved it but it also really hurt my back. I've considered a C4 Cactus but the pop out rear windows and single rear bench seat are probably a compromise too far. HJ seemed to rave about the Renault 1.6dci but I'm not so sure about it's real world reliability over short runs. It's all about achieving maximum comfort combined with economy: there's no point saving £250 a year on fuel then spending £500 on repairing a diesel so - as tempting as the economy figures suggest - I think, for my mileage of 10 - 12k per year it will have to be a petrol.
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What’s the budget, £1,500 or £15000? How are you financing it? and where roughly are you?
6k cash and I'm in Yorkshire. I looked at a Civic 1.6 diesel (having searched this forum and seen your recommendation). It drove brilliantly and I absolutely loved it but it also really hurt my back. I've considered a C4 Cactus but the pop out rear windows and single rear bench seat are probably a compromise too far. HJ seemed to rave about the Renault 1.6dci but I'm not so sure about it's real world reliability over short runs. It's all about achieving maximum comfort combined with economy: there's no point saving £250 a year on fuel then spending £500 on repairing a diesel so - as tempting as the economy figures suggest - I think, for my mileage of 10 - 12k per year it will have to be a petrol.
As Westbury33 says, whilst the suspension makes a large difference, the choice of wheel and tyre size can make just as much and, for the budget-conscious second hand car buyer, can also mean the difference between several hundred £ in their bank account at the end of the year.
Some quite basic cars can, as sales gimics, come with relatively large alloy wheels and low profile (below 50% of the tyre width) tyres, meaning that they'll give a firm ride for most cars, be far more susceptible to kerbing damage, punctures and blowouts, which are at best expensive to fix (new tyres and expensive alloy repairs to get you back on the road again) and downright dangerous at worst.
The lower level of cushioning effect by the air in the tyres means it puts more strain on the suspension, meaning that will wear out more quickly, meaning more costly replacements sooner and a poor ride/handling until it's fixed.
Low profile tyres, forgetting the above, also don't last as long as higher profile ones, give worse mpg and are much more susceptible to aquaplaining and skidding in snowy/icy conditions. Rarely does the benefits of better general traction and cornering come into play, as long as you drive to the speed limits/road and weather conditions.
A good example of the cost implications:
A good quality 195/65 R15 tyre will cost about £50 - £70 fitted. A similar tyre of the same rolling diameter of 205/55 R16 will cost about about 10-15% more. A similar diameter low profile 18in tyre will likely cost around the £120 - £150 mark.
Suspension parts (including fitting) are more expensive, so a bit of extra cushioning by the tyres will help on both the comfort and £££ fronts.
Going the petrol route is a sensible choice and worthwhile for anyone doing under 20-25k miles per year, besides, with all the fancy extra emissions controls devices and likely new local restrictions (not just London) coming into place soon heavily penalising EU5 and below diesels (but only EU3 petrols) means that diesels aren't really worth it unless they are EU6 (around 3-4 years old), something you cannot afford by your budget. As you say, the extra mpg of a diesel is often more than outweighed by the better reliability of the petrol engines through the lower frequency and cost of parts replacements/repairs.
A standard petrol-engined car (especially non-turbos) is far more tollerant of abuse than modern common-rail, DPF-equipped diesels, and you won't necessarily know the car's usage history unless you're buying off the original/long-term owner who can reasonably prove to you it has been driven sympathetically.
I'd go for a well-cared for (full service history, few [minor only] if any MOT fails), lower-to-mid spec, petrol-engine Japanese (not Nissan though) or Korean C-sector car shod with 55 or above profile tyres, preferably on a common size combo like those two I mentioned (it'll save you a fortune on replacement tyres and alloys). Other makes and models like the Ford Focus mk2 etc can be fine if looked after.
I'm deliberately not recommending anything specific yet as some people in more rural areas have a more limited choice of cars to buy and garages to maintain them (I can understand some don't want to have to drive miles [and perhaps in the opposite direction to their workplace] to but/service the car) and thus may be somewhat limited to smaller indie dealers/garages in their area.
For you top price, you're starting to get into the 5+ year old range, so mehcnical/electrical condition, bodyshell rust-resistance (expect a bit, mainly around the wheel arches and underneath) and history is more important than the odd scratch or ding.
If you can, get one on 195/65 R15 tyres as they give a decent improvement in ride without much in handling penalty (don't ever go for cheapo tyres though - you can get decent ones for those prices I quoted, even being able to afford decent all-season tyres which would help you get round better in wintry conditions).
Take heed of SLO76's advice as he has worked in the trade, knows his stuff and is honest in his recommendations. Best of luck.
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Tyres make all the difference.
One that surprised me how soft the ride was a previous model Nissan Note on sensible tyres, a magic carpet ride.
Most normal cars if the tyres are minimum 55 aspect the ride will be fair, find 60 or 65 aspect and it improves more for the same vehicle, and genuine (snowflake stamped) all season tyres offer a softer compound still than pure summer tyres.
Avoid sporty styled hatchbacks would be my advice, its a close battle between the hire Focus on 17 or 18" wheels we had in Ireland or my mates 2016 Golf GTD on 19" wheels as to which gave the worse ride quality of any car i've had the misfortune to be in, wouldn't give you a thankyou for either of them.
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The OP's comments re the Civic shows how seat comfort is a highly personal thing. The ninth gen Civic as mentioned, is rated on this very website for its outstanding comfort and refinement yet it hurt the OP's back. Part of this may be explained by it possibly being a higher spec, or sportier version with big wheels, but not all.
I think this may simply be due to being used to a certain type of seat, in this case, Citroen. I often read that while the seats in a Citroen are comfortable over short-medium length journeys, longer ones highlight a lack of proper support. That is not to say everyone is going to find this though, so for the OP, if you like Citroen seats, the obvious choice would be to get a Citroen.
Have to say though, i am utterly baffled by this comment,
I'd like something that is taken a little more seriously on the road.
What on earth do you mean?
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The OP's comments re the Civic shows how seat comfort is a highly personal thing. The ninth gen Civic as mentioned, is rated on this very website for its outstanding comfort and refinement yet it hurt the OP's back. Part of this may be explained by it possibly being a higher spec, or sportier version with big wheels, but not all.
I think this may simply be due to being used to a certain type of seat, in this case, Citroen. I often read that while the seats in a Citroen are comfortable over short-medium length journeys, longer ones highlight a lack of proper support. That is not to say everyone is going to find this though, so for the OP, if you like Citroen seats, the obvious choice would be to get a Citroen.
Have to say though, i am utterly baffled by this comment,
I'd like something that is taken a little more seriously on the road.
What on earth do you mean?
Drive a Picasso and find out! It doesn't matter how quickly or efficiently you drive the dratted thing, people still try to overtake! Don't get me wrong, anyone's welcome to overtake me providing they've got the power, opportunity and skill to do so and I'll happily accommodate their need but some drivers see the car and decide that, no matter what, they have to be in front - even if that means screeching into a corner and then having a crisis. I have genuinely had to take more evasive action in this car than in any of the (probably 20+) we've owned over the years. C3 Picasso drivers are presumably meant to trundle everywhere, pulling over occasionally to give way to old ladies riding tandems. It simply doesn't happen if I drive the other car: people are afraid of it.
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Drive a Picasso and find out! It doesn't matter how quickly or efficiently you drive the dratted thing, people still try to overtake! Don't get me wrong, anyone's welcome to overtake me providing they've got the power, opportunity and skill to do so and I'll happily accommodate their need but some drivers see the car and decide that, no matter what, they have to be in front - even if that means screeching into a corner and then having a crisis. I have genuinely had to take more evasive action in this car than in any of the (probably 20+) we've owned over the years. C3 Picasso drivers are presumably meant to trundle everywhere, pulling over occasionally to give way to old ladies riding tandems. It simply doesn't happen if I drive the other car: people are afraid of it.
I wholly understand your point. There is a 'pecking' order on the roads, and some cars are a long way from the top. Why people see a car and jump to such conclusions I have no idea.
I spent 12 yrs driving a Mk1 Skoda Octavia, and that seemed to attract a lot of negative reaction that did not happen to drivers of Audi A3 or VW Golf MK4 which are essentialy the same car! For some <insert derogatory term here> drivers, they cant see beyond the badge/shape and see it as their right to behave in an aggressive manner because of you choice of car.
On that point, safety in numbers a good way of avoiding negative behaviour. I replaced our MK1 Octavia with a Ford Focus, and the tailgating and being pushed along reduced significantly. <insert derogatory term here> drivers would be hard pressed to behave in such a way with every Focus or Astra they encountered!
With regard to ride comfort, since handling became a priority for journalist road testers, its taken a back seat. Drive a car from the 70's, like a Peugeot 305, Citroen CX or 2CV of which I've had one of each, and you wouldnt feel any of the imperfections in the road.They could deal with a speed hump or pothole with ease.
Edited by Westbury33 on 10/03/2020 at 08:59
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Re ""I'd like something that is taken a little more seriously on the road."sort of know what you mean.
As an extreme case, I drove a Lada in the UK in the 80's which elicited some extremely stupid overtaking behaviour, I think simply from "I'm behind THAT badge" aversion.
The Lada was a special case because it had a uniquely poor image, so that even (or especially) people who knew absolutely nothing about cars (or anything) "knew" it was a terrible car.
Here with my current car.. its perhaps even worse, because this is an extremely scruffy car, and this is an extremely status conscious culture with a low standard of driving behaviour.
Re "It simply doesn't happen if I drive the other car: people are afraid of it." I doubt fear is usually the key
(Black Mercedes often driven by gangsters a possible exception here in Taiwan)
People are probably afraid of my cars because they don't look as if they've got any brakes, and its clear I don't care about my paintwork. (They should have been afraid of the Lada, as one Fiesta driver learned to his cost) but they still want to get in front.
I think its a status thing.
Edited by edlithgow on 11/03/2020 at 02:34
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Have to say though, i am utterly baffled by this comment,
I'd like something that is taken a little more seriously on the road.
What on earth do you mean?
To me, that request from the OP sounds like they want to have their cake and to eat it. If they want a BMW, Merc or Audi, then they'll either have to accept going for either
1. A much older, poverty-spec model to both afford it and get it shod on reasonable tyres (only getting ok comfort) like the 205/55 R16, which means it'll be of an age where the wear and tear of parts and likely higher unreliability generally will be a significant drain on their resources, or;
2. An even older mid-to-higher spec model and put up with a rock-hard ride and even worse reliability/weaer and tear problems to get that all-important amount of 'respect' from work colleagues, so-called 'friends', etc for driving a German sports saloon.
To the OP - it's just not worth it. It's only ever worth going for heart instead of head when money is no object and you have the patience of a saint. Get a list together of cars that meet your practical day-to-day needs, budget (including running/maintenance costs) and dependability first, and then see which ones you like in terms of styling and performance/handling.
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A good quality 195/65 R15 tyre will cost about £50 - £70 fitted. A similar tyre of the same rolling diameter of 205/55 R16 will cost about about 10-15% more. A similar diameter low profile 18in tyre will likely cost around the £120 - £150 mark.
I cannot understand why more tyre costs less money. I have just reshod my sport quattro A8 with the quietest (top of my priority list) tyres I can find from 'mytyres'. Standard 255/40 19 cost well into the three figures each. Same make and speed rating (Y) in 255/45 19 cost less than £55, plus a tenner a wheel to fit at a local competitive garage. All done for less than £250. I have increased the diameter of the wheels by 2.55cm, or 3.7%. So if the speedo reads a true 50mph, that will be 51.85mph. Theoretically it should be more comfortable but apart from being quieter, I haven't noticed any difference at all. The gearing (mph per revs) will be slightly nearer to that of its higher geared limo cousin, (A8L), which is OK for the mechanicals and OK for me.
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A good quality 195/65 R15 tyre will cost about £50 - £70 fitted. A similar tyre of the same rolling diameter of 205/55 R16 will cost about about 10-15% more. A similar diameter low profile 18in tyre will likely cost around the £120 - £150 mark.
I cannot understand why more tyre costs less money. I have just reshod my sport quattro A8 with the quietest (top of my priority list) tyres I can find from 'mytyres'. Standard 255/40 19 cost well into the three figures each. Same make and speed rating (Y) in 255/45 19 cost less than £55, plus a tenner a wheel to fit at a local competitive garage. All done for less than £250. I have increased the diameter of the wheels by 2.55cm, or 3.7%. So if the speedo reads a true 50mph, that will be 51.85mph. Theoretically it should be more comfortable but apart from being quieter, I haven't noticed any difference at all. The gearing (mph per revs) will be slightly nearer to that of its higher geared limo cousin, (A8L), which is OK for the mechanicals and OK for me.
By law you must stick to a maximum difference from the OEM fit of +1.5% or -2%. You need to go for a reduced width tyre to stay within the allowed boundaries if you wish to keep your 19in rims.
I suspect that you'd need to drop to either 18in or likely 17in rims (if that were possible) and to go for 55-60 profile tyres to make a real discernable difference to the ride quality, for a reasonable (but not huge or unsafe) penalty in handling. Getting the balance right between the two is tricky, especially for higher performance cars. It may aslso depend upon how you wish to drive it and whether you think the change will have a positive or (likely) negative impact on the car's value when it comes time to sell it, and how much that would be.
The price of the tyres is really determined by three factors - the stress and performance it needs to overcome and provide, and how popular the size combo is (supply and demand).
For example, my parents' bog-standard Fiesta comes shod on 195/50 R15 H tyres, which are not that common, limiting them to relatively few tyres on the market, many of which are older designs, and they end up costing more than the 195/65/R15 H on my Mazda3 (along with the 205/55 R16V, the UK's two most popular tyre sizes), which has about 10x as much choice, including all the latest tyres and designs.
The same goes for my car - the latest model is shod on 205/60 R16V, my old gen-1 car (before changing alloys and wheels) originally come shod on 205/55 R16V (going to H rated tyres was allowable as it's indicated in the handbook/door plate as long as I downsized to 15in). The 205/55 R16 tyres are priced (fitted) around £65 - £75, the 205/60s at around £90 - £100 each - and yet my current 195/65 R15 H come in around £55 - £60.
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I cannot understand why more tyre costs less money. I have just reshod my sport quattro A8 with the quietest (top of my priority list) tyres I can find from 'mytyres'. Standard 255/40 19 cost well into the three figures each. Same make and speed rating (Y) in 255/45 19 cost less than £55, plus a tenner a wheel to fit at a local competitive garage. All done for less than £250. I have increased the diameter of the wheels by 2.55cm, or 3.7%. So if the speedo reads a true 50mph, that will be 51.85mph. Theoretically it should be more comfortable but apart from being quieter, I haven't noticed any difference at all. The gearing (mph per revs) will be slightly nearer to that of its higher geared limo cousin, (A8L), which is OK for the mechanicals and OK for me.
By law you must stick to a maximum difference from the OEM fit of +1.5% or -2%.
I'd like to see legal chapter and verse. I have just reduced our Focus wheel size by 3.17% by replacing 195/60 15 winter shod wheels with 195/55 15 summer wheels. Come next winter, I shall increase the wheel size by 3.27% by reversing the process. Both sizes are printed in the Focus handbook, and I have no idea to which size the car's speedo is calibrated. And frankly, I don't give a d.............
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I cannot understand why more tyre costs less money. I have just reshod my sport quattro A8 with the quietest (top of my priority list) tyres I can find from 'mytyres'. Standard 255/40 19 cost well into the three figures each. Same make and speed rating (Y) in 255/45 19 cost less than £55, plus a tenner a wheel to fit at a local competitive garage. All done for less than £250. I have increased the diameter of the wheels by 2.55cm, or 3.7%. So if the speedo reads a true 50mph, that will be 51.85mph. Theoretically it should be more comfortable but apart from being quieter, I haven't noticed any difference at all. The gearing (mph per revs) will be slightly nearer to that of its higher geared limo cousin, (A8L), which is OK for the mechanicals and OK for me.
By law you must stick to a maximum difference from the OEM fit of +1.5% or -2%.
I'd like to see legal chapter and verse. I have just reduced our Focus wheel size by 3.17% by replacing 195/60 15 winter shod wheels with 195/55 15 summer wheels. Come next winter, I shall increase the wheel size by 3.27% by reversing the process. Both sizes are printed in the Focus handbook, and I have no idea to which size the car's speedo is calibrated. And frankly, I don't give a d.............
Perhaps you don't give a flying fig, but Plod and the MOTer may well do. Admitedly, I found the +/- details from Oponeo, which only state it's 'recommended', but I do recall (though not from who or where) somewhere/body else stating it was law because of the speedo calibration issue.
I would note that handbooks cover a multitude of variant models, and thus all the sizes quoted may be for the entire Focus range, and not just your model. The plate on the driver's size door or surround should say which wheel and tyre size combos are allowed. Mine did.
Like many things, there are normally tollerance limits when A is changed to B, and outside of that is not allowed unless other aspects are changed so that the error is corrected. You may be able to do as you have if you have your speedo re-calibrated accordingly each time. I mean, without such limits, people could change their car's wheels and tyres to whatever they wanted and get away with it, including both speeding without realising and/or significantly under-reporting the actual mileage on the odometer.
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If possible I’d beg or borrow a bit more money, otherwise I’d keep the C3 until you can afford to spend more. I spotted a few id try myself.
I don’t normally recommend Citroen’s but I like these. They’re a bit marmite but they ride well and the later 3cyl 1.2 motors are to date reliable and fun, especially the turbo here. Plenty of go, comfy ride, good on fuel and quirky looks.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200229786...9
Default choice at this money. Utterly reliable and reasonably comfortable. It’ll still be running in 15yrs no bother.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200304799...3
The best used small family hatch by a fair margin. Great to drive, reliable, good on fuel and comfortable too. Worth the extra.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200308816...4
Edited by SLO76 on 10/03/2020 at 11:23
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Drive a Picasso and find out! It doesn't matter how quickly or efficiently you drive the dratted thing, people still try to overtake!
I find that very hard to believe. Far more likely that the people who overtake you feel you are dawdling.
You need to consider your own driving rather than assuming others are driving like lunatics if they overtake and disappear up the road. There is no doubt some cars feel much faster than others on country roads due to their handling. I have never been in a Picasso let alone driven one but that might be part of your problem.
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