Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

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Wed 7 Nov 2018 16:03

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - esox

Appreciate any advice on following please.

Have a maximum budget of £5k for a medium size 4 door petrol car as only doing about 5000 miles per annum running around town and being dads taxi locally for my kids.

Have in mind tow cars a petrol Ford Focus (prefer new shape) or the VW Golf 1.4cc upwards petrol also. I know golfs design has not changed that much probably why I am biased to the focus.

Are the perceived quality sturdiness of the German cars correct and therefore worth paying extra for? or do you end getting sucked in by the marketing blurb etc.

Any owners opinions would be great.

Thanks

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Wed 7 Nov 2018 16:39

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - nellyjak

Whatever floats yer boat.!...personally, with your budget, I'd be going Japanese...better chance of longer term reliability IMO.

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Wed 7 Nov 2018 16:46

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - badbusdriver

Appreciate any advice on following please.

Have a maximum budget of £5k for a medium size 4 door petrol car as only doing about 5000 miles per annum running around town and being dads taxi locally for my kids.

Have in mind tow cars a petrol Ford Focus (prefer new shape) or the VW Golf 1.4cc upwards petrol also. I know golfs design has not changed that much probably why I am biased to the focus.

Are the perceived quality sturdiness of the German cars correct and therefore worth paying extra for? or do you end getting sucked in by the marketing blurb etc.

Any owners opinions would be great.

Thanks

When you say tow car, what do you mean by that, trailer, caravan?. Not sure of anything in that category of car would strike me as being ideal for towing a caravan unless it was small.

Anyway, as to your questions, re German cars, percieved sturdiness is an odd choice of term and really depends on what you mean by that. German cars tend to have greater showroom appeal due to better quality interior fittings, and most people do seem to think that buying something German means they will end up with a better car. That is not really the case, not so much due to them being unreliable, though certain engine/gearbox combo's certainly can be, more that they are no better than average. If you want reliability, then you'd be best sticking to Japanese or Korean made cars. This is even more so if you plan to keep the car long term. There are European cars you should also consider, the Ford Focus being one, so long as it is not diesel (i know you have already said petrol), not a 1.0 ecoboost engine, and not the powershift auto.

For £5k, the car which would be top of my list would be the Honda Civic 1.8. It has a spacious cabin, a large boot, it is fast enough for most, reasonably economical and best of all, unfailingly reliable. Others to consider would be the Mazda 3, Kia Cee'd, Hyundai i30, Toyota Auris.

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Wed 7 Nov 2018 18:04

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - esox

Sorry typo mistake meant to say two cars.

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Wed 7 Nov 2018 18:10

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - esox

Thanks for the advice thus far. Agree about tap cars did have a Toyota Avensis 1.8 petrol estate owned for 3 years and was reliable/dependable but found it boring which is why I probably would not buy another. Yes also considered Kia (Rio), Hyundai I20, Auris etc. But really do like to the look of the new shape focus. Used to own the old shape Honda Civic also but just don't like the shape of the civics even though everybody says how good they are.

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Wed 7 Nov 2018 18:50

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - TheGentlemanThug

I'll second the Civic 1.8 as well as the Mazda3. The Focus 1.6 is another good option.

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Wed 7 Nov 2018 21:06

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - SLO76

At this money I’d be looking at the Focus 1.6, Honda Civic 1.8 and Mazda 3 1.6 all petrol. The Focus and 3 are the more entertaining to drive but the Civic has a corker of an engine.

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 07:13

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - drd63

Not sure I’d agree about the Civic engine or the car as a whole. I had a new 2006 1.8 Civic. It was dire, gutless and thirsty, ropey gearbox which ended up failing and being replaced, many other faults. Very comfy seats though.

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 08:24

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - SLO76

Not sure I’d agree about the Civic engine or the car as a whole. I had a new 2006 1.8 Civic. It was dire, gutless and thirsty, ropey gearbox which ended up failing and being replaced, many other faults. Very comfy seats though.

Something wrong with it then. 138bhp and 0-60 in 8.6 secs is plenty quick enough for a family hatch and will easily outrun almost any equivalent rival and still offers 40mpg plus which is better than a much slower 1.6 Focus or Mazda 3. The gearbox is excellent unless you mean the I-shift which was poor and did indeed hamper performance with its clumsy gearchanges.

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 08:43

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - Alanovich

If you decide on a Golf, then buy one with badges which say "Skoda Octavia" or "SEAT Leon" in order to either save £££ or get a much newer car for the money.

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 09:56

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - skidpan

Not sure I’d agree about the Civic engine or the car as a whole. I had a new 2006 1.8 Civic. It was dire, gutless and thirsty, ropey gearbox which ended up failing and being replaced, many other faults. Very comfy seats though.

Something wrong with it then. 138bhp and 0-60 in 8.6 secs is plenty quick enough for a family hatch and will easily outrun almost any equivalent rival and still offers 40mpg plus which is better than a much slower 1.6 Focus or Mazda 3.

Partly agree with the above. We had a 1.8 Civic in the office as a pool car after the original user left the company.

It was gutless if you drove it normally but if you were prepared to thrash it the thing went well enough. Unfortunately that is a very tiring and not very economical way to drive.

As for economy, I have no idea personally, just used the company account when I needed to fuel it. But the original user was delighted with it, said it was as good as many diesels.

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 11:52

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - drd63

Above was part of the problem, that performance was only available if you thrashed it hence the poor economy. The other problem with was the engine really doesn’t like to rev, it’s quite unlike other Hondas I’d had which did rev very freely - S2000, 2.0 and 2.4 Accords.

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 12:14

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - SLO76

Above was part of the problem, that performance was only available if you thrashed it hence the poor economy. The other problem with was the engine really doesn’t like to rev, it’s quite unlike other Hondas I’d had which did rev very freely - S2000, 2.0 and 2.4 Accords.

There was definitely something wrong with it then. I’ve never sat in anything with a Honda VTEC that didn’t like to rev. Yes economy will suffer when thrashing it but that’s the point, drive it normally and it’ll be very efficient but when you need power let it rev and it’ll pull strongly. I’ve flogged Civics and Accords with this engine and I’ve never found it lacking when needed.

Edited by SLO76 on 08/11/2018 at 12:28

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 15:32

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - bazza

Compared to a turbo diesel, yes it lacks mid-range, compared to a 1.6 atmo petrol it is quicker. We have both 1.6 focus and 1 8 civiC on the drive. Focus ultimately has sharper handling but not noticeable normally. Focus mpg is around 40, Civic is 47mpg overall. Civic is much quicker through the gears when pushed. Refinement, well the Civic is miles ahead. On twisty b roads the focus is miles ahead. On build quality, Civic in a different league.

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 18:42

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - Engineer Andy

Above was part of the problem, that performance was only available if you thrashed it hence the poor economy. The other problem with was the engine really doesn’t like to rev, it’s quite unlike other Hondas I’d had which did rev very freely - S2000, 2.0 and 2.4 Accords.

There was definitely something wrong with it then. I’ve never sat in anything with a Honda VTEC that didn’t like to rev. Yes economy will suffer when thrashing it but that’s the point, drive it normally and it’ll be very efficient but when you need power let it rev and it’ll pull strongly. I’ve flogged Civics and Accords with this engine and I’ve never found it lacking when needed.

Would such a problem be caused by an acceleration flat spot from not running it in properly when new and using the full range of gears and revs allowed and not running it for too long at a constant speed in one gear? If I recall correctly, that's what it said in Mazda3 (2005 build) 1.6 petrol's handbook.

I've read quite a few comments from other backroomers saying that as long as you don't over-rev it a lot then most modern cars are fine - not sure that also applies to the 'older' normally aspirated VTEC type engines from the Japanese makes from that era though.

Perhaps part of it is the different acceleration characteristics of the VTEC and small petrol turbo engines that does it - low to mid-revs acceleration is much better in the latter. Maybe why Honda chose to fit a 1.8 (138PS I think) instead of an updated 1.6 petrol engine from the previous generation car, so that you (in theory) didn't need to rev the nuts off it to give a reasonable amount of performance.

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 16:52

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - TheGentlemanThug

As the owner of a Civic 1.8 ES, I do agree that the engine has to be worked hard to get the best out of it, but it certainly doesn't sound rough. It's much better than a lot of other naturally-aspirated engines. I also agree that it's not the best engine for a long motorway journey as it can be somewhat noisey.

Even on my relatively short 11 mile mostly traffic-free run to work, changing gear at 4,000 rpm, the trip computer gives me an average of 40 mpg. Granted, this is probably optimistic, but not by much I reckon.

By comparison, a 2006 Focus 1.6 I owned was slow even when worked hard. Perfectly reliable car though, and the steering had more feel.

Edited by Bicycle_Repair_Man on 08/11/2018 at 16:52

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 16:20

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - esox

Take your point will look at them I am not a badge snob.

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 17:38

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - esox

Noticed a number of Ford Focus 1.8 petrol for sale they seem to sell slower than the 1.6 versions. Anyone owned the 1.8 petrol and how it much of a difference in performance pulling power their is compared to the 1.6 engine.

Also do you think the bigger engine is a lot more thirsty?

With regards comments about the Honda Civic I know they are a good car but that shape is def a marmite choice.

Thanks

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 18:51

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - Engineer Andy

Have a look on the Real MPG section to find out. The Focus's 1.8 petrol engine is a Mazda unit which also featured in the mk1 Mazda 5 and 6 at the time when they were part owned by Ford.

I personally like the exterior styling of the Civic (especially the 2012-17 late models) but thought the interior was bland. Certainly appear to be long lasting and reliable, but as you say, not everyone's cup-of-tea in other regards.

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 20:53

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - catsdad

I think VAG interiors are hard to beat in terms of looks. I dont llike most Focus interiors, especially the two tone seats. They quickly look dirty. While the Civic interior is a tad dark and bland it is very good quality. The standard velour seats in our 60k miles 2012 Civic are showing no sign of wear.

I am in the camp that likes the Civic performace characteristics. I dont push it often but like the noise and response when I occasionally do floor it. I also like it as a motorway car. At 70 it is running 3000 rpm and it has plenty of pull for hills without dropping from 6th. I dare say a turbo alternative will run at lower revs but among the normally aspirated competition the Civic acquits itself well. It won't suit everyone though, especially if they drive hard most of the time and rev accordingly.

As for the Mazda 3, my son has a 2012 1.6 petrol and he likes it but finds the performance a bit lacking and rear leg and boot space tight. However when he bought it last year it was about 25% cheaper than the Civic that he'd have preferred. All the Focuses he looked at were well-priced but he couldn't find one didnt feel a bit tired and unloved.

Edited by catsdad on 08/11/2018 at 20:54

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Fri 9 Nov 2018 18:25

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - Engineer Andy

Note that the mk3 Focus (just recently replaced) has a smaller boot (315 ltr) than the mk2 (365-385) equivalent hatch mk2 (~340) and mk3 Mazda3 (365). I liked the Focus mk2, especially the mid-life upgrade, not keen on the mk3 at all, especially the interior. The mk2 Mazda looks fine on the outside, ok on the inside, though I prefer the interior of my mk1 (personal preference and bigger buttons).

The Mazda will be good value for money if you get a petrol engined one and it's been looked after properly, but as I know, the 1.6 isn't quick, but is ok, but beats the Civic hands down on the handling front and is almost as good as the Focus.

I supposed it comes down to what each person values in a car, how much they are prepared to spend looking after and running it and how long they are going to keep it.

In terms of design aesthetics alone for a standard C-Sector car (not 'premium brands like BMW, Audi or Mercedes), then the VAGs are very good - I have a personal preference for the Golf GT with the piano black finish and standard seats; most of them look better than the opposition, though the latest Mazda3 interior is very good and egonomically very nice.

The latest Focus looks like its a decent improvement over the previous version in terms of styling inside and out, but to me still lagging behind the competition. Its the price that they'll always do best on, after deals. It's why in the last 5 years or so that I've also considered what used to be second tier makes in the VAG stable like SEAT and Skoda, as well as Hyundai/KIA who've made leaps and bounds in the last decade. Lots of huge bargains to be had over VW, Audi and Honda whose cars attract far smaller discounts (often half as much) and start off at much higher RRPs than the likes of SEAT, Skoda, Mazda and Hyundau/KIA - often saving £5k/25% on what is essentially a very similar car.

My current sticking point that effectively rules out many cars/makes completely is that I want a smooth, reliable and reasonably quiet auto gearbox that works well in urban areas, meaning that all automated manuals (carp), many dual clutch boxes (reliability and/or not really designed for crawling in traffic) and CVTs (not good on heavy acceleration re: noise, some not so reliable) are out, perhaps with the exception of the Hyundai/KIA DCT unit. I might consider the Honda or Toyota CVTs given their overall reliability record if pushed.

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Thu 8 Nov 2018 22:16

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - SLO76

“Noticed a number of Ford Focus 1.8 petrol for sale they seem to sell slower than the 1.6 versions. Anyone owned the 1.8 petrol and how it much of a difference in performance pulling power their is compared to the 1.6 engine.

Also do you think the bigger engine is a lot more thirsty?”

It’s a chain driven Mazda unit and compared to the belt driven Yamaha designed 1.6 it’s marginally thirstier but noticeably quicker. I find the smaller engine the sweeter of the two, a bit quicker to rev and a little smoother but that’s not to say the 1.8 is bad. Both are very robust and both will do around 35mpg in a Mk II. Push your budget a bit and you’ll open up the Mk III which is a bit more modern and a little better on fuel plus safer. A decent 1.6 can be had for £5,500 possibly less with negotiation. Just don’t be tempted by the 1.0 Ecoboost!

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Tue 13 Nov 2018 18:08

Focus/VW Golf - Medium Family Car Choice - Frathouse

Noticed a number of Ford Focus 1.8 petrol for sale they seem to sell slower than the 1.6 versions. Anyone owned the 1.8 petrol and how it much of a difference in performance pulling power their is compared to the 1.6 engine.

Also do you think the bigger engine is a lot more thirsty?

I'd recommend staying away from a mk2 Focus 1.8 they like to drink oil as the mileage goes up ( piston rings )which is a shame as the Mrs had one in a Cmax decent enough performance, slightly more acceleration than my current Mk1 1.8 Focus but I was chucking a litre of oil in every Sunday and this is more common than not with the 1.8s,

I would recommend 2.0 Duratec its the same Mazda designed engine as 1.8 but doesn't suffer so much with oil burning however looking at your typical journeys being short and around town you might find it a bit juicy on fuel although they are fine on a longer run.

Focus also do 1.6 Ti-VCT version bit more BHP than the boggo 1.6 - might be worth a look ?

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