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Sun 10 Sep 2017 11:51

SEAT Toledo - My new car - pinkpanther_75

I've run / owned a whole succession of both Petrol and Diesel VAG cars over the last few years, but more recently felt the urge to scratch a "convertible itch". Given my propensity for VAG cars I’d considered an EOS, but given the reported issues with the complex roof mechanism I decided to stick with a conventional (cloth) type hood. After much searching I came across the relatively unknown Vauxhall Cascada, which ticked all the boxes (cloth hood, petrol, manual and plenty of space – 4 seats).

I disposed of my car (Skoda Rapid Spaceback) via a well-known car buying company (seperate thread on here regarding the mostly positive experience) and purchased a Vauxhall Cascada 1.4 T SE. The actual ownership experience proved to be a disappointment, and, prompted by a mechanical issue (failed water pump), I opted to trade it in after just 6 weeks ownership. The Cascada was bought from a main dealer (and required a plane and boat to collect!), but the price was keen and I was fortunate enough to turn a small profit when trading in.

Given my preference for VAG products (I also run a re-mapped TDi Yeti – separate thread on here regarding my experiences of the EA189 emissions update) I began looking for more conventional petrol VAG car. I came across a deal for a new SEAT Toledo Xcellence at a large (~41% off list price) discount. These cars are not popular and are typically discounted heavily, but nevertheless this deal gave me a well-equipped new car for less than the cost of a number of second hand alternatives (Fabia, Polo, Focus etc) . This model is effectively a clone of the Skoda Rapid hatch and given I’d owned 2 of these previously, I was on familiar ground and went ahead and traded in the Cascada for a new Toledo 1.0 TSi Excellence.

I’ve covered just over 1000 miles since collecting the Toledo and thought I’d post up my thoughts regarding my new car. Thus far the pros are as follows:

Engine - the new 1.0 3 pot TSi is a remarkable unit, given its diminutive size. I'd previously owned 2 1.2 TSi 105 BHP TSi engined cars and find the newer unit is both more "characterful" and free reving. The fuel returns thus far also suggest it is 10-20% more economical than the older TSi units (I record MPG brim-to-brim).

Gear change – the car has the usual 6 speed gearbox. This gives relaxed cruising – 70 MPH in 6th equates to ~2200 RPM. The change is typical VAG fare and is slick, although occasionally baulks when changing down to 4th.

Headlights - the Toledo has full LED headlights and these are the best lights I've experienced, despite previously owning cars with Xenons The dipped beam is exceptional and main beam is akin to stadium flood lights! The car also has LED indicators at the front and partial LED rear lights (rear indicators are halogen).

Infotainment - In typical VAG fashion the infotainment system is well integrated into the car and provides a number of options for playing / streaming music (Blueotooth, USB, x2 SD cards), a functional / responsive voice control system and a number of the features (sat-nav instructions etc) are mirrored on the dash display.

Practicalities - The boot is enormous and the car is supplied (as standard) with a spare wheel. Many years ago I was pleased to find my Mark I Skoda vRS came with 5 Alloys. The SEAT however has the standard VAG spare - 15" steel rim with 195/55/15 tyre.

Interior - the interior is half alcantara / leatherette (much like Mercedes Artico) and is much plusher than the Rapid's I've owned previously. The car has keyless entry, which despite the reported security implications I find useful in everyday use.

As for negatives:

Wheels / tyres - the Xcellence model comes with 17" rims and 215/40/17 tyres (Bridgestone Potenza RE050). I would have preferred a more comfortable tyre profile, but had no choice in the matter. I run winter tyres November to March and have a set of 15" steel wheels / Continental winter tyres ready to go on, so not overly concerned.

Interior - this is a cheap car and the interior plastics / fixtures & fittings are a little dated / low rent in places. This is perhaps a little harsh, given the alternatives available at similar prices. I recently sat in a Dacia and can confirm the SEAT (or any VAG product) is simply light years ahead in this aspect. The glovebox is much smaller than the older Rapid’s, as the Infotainment system unit occupies at least 2/3 of the available space.

Engine - Whilst the engine is eager to rev, there is no escaping it's low capacity / 3 cylinders and it's much easier to catch it "off boost" at low revs. This contrasts markedly with the older 1.2 TSi 4 cylinder units which are much happier "lugging" at low revs and display almost diesel like low rev torque.

Technical updates - I enquired regarding map updates and it seems SEAT UK does not operate the free map updates seen in Europe (and in the UK for Skoda, VW and Audi). I assume the new Toledo has a reasonably up-to-date map version installed, but as with any pre-installed system the maps tend to lag a long way behind stand-alone units / phones running Google maps etc. A family member has just taken ownership of a 2015 Fabia and I was frustrated to see how easy it was to update both the maps, and system firmware, using the online Skoda portal. This free service is attached to the car for 3 years and is available for SEAT in Europe!

Warranty – The SEAT warranty is equivalent to the Skoda new car warranty (3 years / 60K miles), but I was disappointed to see the breakdown cover only applies for 2 years, whereas it is 3 years for a Skoda.

All in all I'm fairly satisfied with the Toledo and hope it continues to provide spacious and economical family transport for years to come.

Edited by pinkpanther_75 on 10/09/2017 at 11:57

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Sun 10 Sep 2017 14:36

SEAT Toledo - My new car - Happy Blue!

Great detailed report. Sounds like the Toledo would be a great rental car. Most people want space for four people plus luggage and a quick connection for their phone to the car.

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Sun 10 Sep 2017 14:53

SEAT Toledo - My new car - pinkpanther_75

Great detailed report. Sounds like the Toledo would be a great rental car. Most people want space for four people plus luggage and a quick connection for their phone to the car.

I've seen a few Toledo and Rapid hatchbacks used as Taxi's, but they are a little narrow in the cabin for 3 in the back.

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Mon 11 Sep 2017 18:24

SEAT Toledo - My new car - Smileyman

I have just bought one of these, the boot is great for two large size suitcases with wheels too, plus additional space ideal for airport or sea port runs. Agree there are shortcomings with the car, but a brand new car for under £12k, Inc metallic paint colour, great value. Last fill up gave me 48mpg, and I am not a slouch in the open road. More comments to follow over time.

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Tue 12 Sep 2017 00:25

SEAT Toledo - My new car - brum

I've had these on hire a couple of times abroad and must say they are a decent, honest car if a little dull perhaps.Very practical though with great boot. They are very much a reskinned Skoda Rapid though built in entirely different places.

Interestingly, in Poland both Skoda and Seat versions seem to come with a 4 year warranty and free servicing as standard! On the basic models at least there is no rear wiper on the huge tailgate which is strange.

Just checked Carfile and the list prices are ridiculous, discount prices are not competitive either. Where do people get these supposedly low prices?

Edited by brum on 12/09/2017 at 00:30

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Tue 12 Sep 2017 00:57

SEAT Toledo - My new car - Engineer Andy

Try the HJ Cars For Sale section - the Rapid is available for about £11.5k at about 20% off; the higher spec Toledo about the same discount but starting at £2.5k more.

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Tue 12 Sep 2017 21:11

SEAT Toledo - My new car - Smileyman

I first noticed this car a couple of years ago, both under Skoda and Seat brands (I think these are built in the same factory in Chechia) - recently I saw an advertisement placed by a "northern dealer" in Autotrader , however I purchased from a dealer nearer to me so they can service the car, I prefer to have the same dealer sell and service my cars whilst they are under warranty. To be honest, the price is very attractive and value for money making the deal worthwhile, however it still does represent a risk having a small turbocharged petrol engine in so far that in the very long term reliability & robustness is uncertain. Time will tell. What is immediately clear is that the car is very practical, comfortable and pleasant to drive. It also has a full size spare, albeit only 15" whereas the car comes with 17" alloys.

Prior to purchase I also test drove a Mazda 3, however I decided against ... there were a few reasons including the lack of spare wheel, smaller boot, (which would be even smaller if the spacesaver dealer fit spare wheel option was taken), lack of front seat storage space and I did not like the position of the door mirrors. I also found the Mazda suffered from tyre / road noise, it was very pronounced to me on test drive. However the wheel / tyre size matched my Primera but that was only a short term consideration.

Of course there was also the lure of a brand new car (8 miles on the clock) against a 1 year old with 7-8k miles that cost £1,500 more ....

Edited by Smileyman on 12/09/2017 at 21:27

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Mon 2 Apr 2018 14:16

SEAT Toledo - My new car - Engineer Andy

Prior to purchase I also test drove a Mazda 3, however I decided against ... there were a few reasons including the lack of spare wheel, smaller boot, (which would be even smaller if the spacesaver dealer fit spare wheel option was taken), lack of front seat storage space and I did not like the position of the door mirrors. I also found the Mazda suffered from tyre / road noise, it was very pronounced to me on test drive. However the wheel / tyre size matched my Primera but that was only a short term consideration.

The ride on the latest Mazda3 is on the firm side generally, but is much more so on the Sport (Nav) models which run on 18in wheels and tyres, whereas the (still very well equipped) next model down, the SE-L (Nav) is shod on 16in alloys and 60 profile tyres, which I found to be better.

The downside more generally was that Mazda, in their infinite wisdom, decided to ditch the universally popular 205/55 R16 tyres on the previous generations of the 3 (including mine) which are the cheapest 16in tyre size you can get, to the slightly higher profile 205/60 R16 (both are V rated - about £60 to £85 a tyre [fitted] for decent brands) tyres on the same size hubs presumably to get a slightly more comfortable ride, but which cost 50% more for the priveledge (and of the same brand/quality) and have far less choice. The 18in ones on the Sport are even more expensive at double the cost, and, like most very low profile tyres, don't last as long and are much more susceptible to damage from kerbing, etc.

Given (apart from the 'small' [0.5sec to 60] performance boots of the Sport 165) the vast majority of the 3 and 6 come with the same 2.0 petrol engine, Sport models or not, the 18in rims and tyres are just for show, and give only a slight difference in grip under ordinary conditions unless you drive right on the limit (possibly dangerously) all the time. They should've stuck to the 'standard' 205/55 R16 (with an option for 195/65 R15) on SE-L models and below and just used 225/45 R17 on the Sport models as they used to on the (non-MPS) mk1 and 2 models, which is more widely available and better riding (comfort) than the 18in variant used, and not that different in price to the 205/60 R16s.

VAG seem to have wisely stuck to the 'tried and tested' common tyre sizes, allowing higher profile options as well for those who want better comfort on non high performance models. The Rapid/Toledo seems an excellent value-for-money car if you're not that concerned about a plush interior or image - just good, honest motoring at a decent price.

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Tue 12 Sep 2017 22:44

SEAT Toledo - My new car - pinkpanther_75

Where do people get these supposedly low prices?

Google is your friend - this deal has been widely publicised, although I understand the vast majority are now accounted for.

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Fri 22 Sep 2017 20:04

SEAT Toledo - My new car - pinkpanther_75

>46 MPG (mainly urban driving) over the last 2 tanks. Happy with this (and represents a 10-15% improvement on the 1.2 TSi 105 BHP it replaced).

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Sat 23 Sep 2017 16:55

SEAT Toledo - My new car - pinkpanther_75

Recently events allowed a contrast of 2 very different "family" type hatch backs.

A good friend of mine is looking to change his car. He has a 10 year old Focus 2.0 TDi. This is a non-DPF Euro 4 model and consistently returns good fuel economy (45 mpg urban / 50+ non-urban) and has proved to be reliable over 10 years / 120k miles. We recently agreed to swap cars for a few days, as he's considering a switch to a low capacity petrol Turbo.

I drove his Focus for a few days and found it very tractable, reasonably pokey, although a little coa*** / noisey (and breathless at higher revs). He absolutely hated my Toledo however and couldn't get on with the lack of low-down torque / driving dynamics. Whilst these are externally 2 very similar cars, in practice they offer a very different driving experience.

I regularly switch between my 4x4 remapped 2014 2.0 TDi Yeti (175 BHP / 310 lb/ft) and 2017 Toledo (110 BHP / 148 lb/ft) and find the Toledo light, smooth and quiet, whereas the Yeti is noisey, coa***, but considerably quicker :-) I actually enjoy the differing characteristics of these 2 cars, whereas I suspect some would take time to acclimatise to the widely differing characteristics.

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Sun 15 Oct 2017 12:40

SEAT Toledo - My new car - pinkpanther_75

Fuel economy on a recent long motorway run (420 miles) came out just over 60 mpg.

Long-term average (3000 miles) currently mid 40's MPG, in mainly urban use.

Despite the Real MPG readings on here suggesting otherwise, the 1.0 110 BHP unit apears to be 10-15% better on fuel than the earlier 1.2 105/110 BHP unit.

No issues with the car otherwise and continues to impress as spacious, undemanding family transport.

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Sun 15 Oct 2017 21:35

SEAT Toledo - My new car - Smileyman

As a driver of the same car I'm perplexed by your fuel economy figures, what was your speed on this long journey, was that relying on a the onboard computer or brim to brim fill up?

I'm getting mid-upper 40's on my commute - measured brim to brim on fill up - I keep up with the other drivers in lane 2 on dual carriageways, the only time I have bettered 50mpg was when I had a puncture and using the spare was restricted to 50mph (and imo was a nuisance to all other road users so in time will be looking for a 17" wheel as a spare)

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Sun 12 Nov 2017 11:06

SEAT Toledo - My new car - pinkpanther_75

As a driver of the same car I'm perplexed by your fuel economy figures, what was your speed on this long journey, was that relying on a the onboard computer or brim to brim fill up?

I'm getting mid-upper 40's on my commute - measured brim to brim on fill up - I keep up with the other drivers in lane 2 on dual carriageways, the only time I have bettered 50mpg was when I had a puncture and using the spare was restricted to 50mph (and imo was a nuisance to all other road users so in time will be looking for a 17" wheel as a spare)

The 60 MPG was reported by the OBC. I measure my fuel economy brim-to-brim and it worked out (over 2 seperate tanks) to be ~52 MPG including this journey, although this did included low speed commuting before and afterwards

There is another 2017 Toledo on Fuelly that is averaging high 50's MPG (with a best of 60 MPG).

My car is returning mid 40's in generally low speed urban commuting, which seems a reasonable return.

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Sun 12 Nov 2017 11:07

SEAT Toledo - My new car - pinkpanther_75

4000 miles in now and no reliability issues to report.

The car is currently running on a set of 15" steel rims / Continental TS850 winter tyres (185/60/15) and rides considerably better (smoother / quieter) than on the OEM 17" alloys / 215/40/17 Bridgestone Potenza RE050's. The speedo hasn't been appreciably affected by this change, given just a 0.4% difference in circumference between the 2 set-ups.

I also compared speed reported by the car to a Sat-nav driven speedo on my phone and found the car typically over-reads by 2-3 MPH, across a wide range of speeds. (20 - 70 MPH).

The car has averaged 46 MPG over the last 10 tanks of fuel (best = 52.3 MPG / worst = 43 MPG). The OBC typically over estimates MPG by 5-10%.

I've elected to stick with standard unleaded fuel (Esso, Shell and Cost-co), but may throw in a few tanks of Shell V-Power Nitro+ as the miles rise. This will be more for the detergent properties of the fuel, rather than any gain in performance / fuel economy.

The six speed box allows relaxed cruising at motorway speeds and I'm constantly impressed that a 1.0 car can run with just over 2000 revs indicated at 70 MPH. I recall running an old "bread box" style Polo many years ago which would spin at in excess of 4000 revs at similar speeds (in fourth). More recently I ran a 1.6 NA Petrol Qashqai for 2 years,which required 3500 RPM for a similar speed (in fifth).

I've switched all the interior bulbs to LED and am investigating how best to replace the remaining (external bulbs) - front fog lights, rear indicators, side repeaters with LED equivalents.

I did explore having Full-Link activated, but this remains a relatively costly option (£199) and still requires the phone to be connected by a cable, in order to benefit from Android Auto etc. I'd then lose access to the USB port, which is currently home to a 64Gb mini-USB stick containing MP3's.

By no means a remarkable car, but certainly represents decent value (at the purchase price), as well as proving roomy, reliable and economical family transport.

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Mon 2 Apr 2018 12:09

SEAT Toledo - My new car - pinkpanther_75

7k miles now and no mechanical issues to report.

I'm avergaging around 44 MPG, in generally urban use, which is 10-16% better than the previous 1.2 TSi cars I ran.

Just switched back to summer tyres and am missing the softer ride from the 15" wheels / higher profile tyres.

Full-link activation turned into a disaster, so planning to live without this feature.

first service will be due in a few months - £189 for what is essentially an oil and filter change!!!

All things considered I remain pleased with my decision to buy this car.

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Mon 2 Apr 2018 13:50

SEAT Toledo - My new car - Engineer Andy

4000 miles in now and no reliability issues to report.

The car is currently running on a set of 15" steel rims / Continental TS850 winter tyres (185/60/15) and rides considerably better (smoother / quieter) than on the OEM 17" alloys / 215/40/17 Bridgestone Potenza RE050's. The speedo hasn't been appreciably affected by this change, given just a 0.4% difference in circumference between the 2 set-ups.

From the research I've done in the last few years when considering changing tyres (I'm now also considering changing my alloys on my 55reg Mazda3 1.6 TS2 petrol as well - down from 16in [205/55 R16] to 15in [195/65 R15 as on the virtually identical TS model] - the eisting OEM alloys have started to deform a little through age which means the tyres need pumping up more often, and I preferred the better ride quality of the 15in tyres (I used one for a while on that model for a work pool car some years ago), as well as the difference in price of the tyres (15-20% less for the 15in ones) and especially any reaplcement alloys (huge - the OEM ones are almost half the price if you go from 16 to 15in, about 20% cheaper if you choose a different design between the two sizes).

I found that (from user reviews, not just the 'when new' magazine reviews) Bridgestones were often noisy and, more suprisingly for a brand that previously (mid 2000s and before) were renowned for great performance in the wet, now often below par in that regard, sometimes a lot. Admitedly they are an older design nowadays, but the tyrereviews.so.uk reviews seem (IMO) to bear this out. They (as a brand) seem to be improving again, especially in terms of wet performance.

Even if you stick with your OE alloys (size), I would suggest, as soon as you can afford it, change the tyres to another make/model (do some research on the tyrereviews website to see what is well suited to both your car and driving style/mileage - lots of reviews from magazines and owners [which are searchable by make, model, size]) which may improve comfort (including noise) and other factors which you consider important - also, they often show the cost effectiveness as regards wear - though for lower usage, cost alone is a better indicator as old tyres (say at 6yo) may have lots of tread left (as mine did previously) but become hard, brittle and noisy and would need changing as a result.

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Mon 2 Apr 2018 20:16

SEAT Toledo - My new car - Smileyman

I've now driven 14,000 miles in my Toledo and apart from a puncture it's been uneventful. I have kept a log of fuel economy and overall the result is just a shade under 45mpg, this is brim to brim not using the OBC. A lot of my driving is at motorway speeds, often in a rollercoaster enviroment, especially when vehicles restricted to 55/60 pull out to lane 2.

I had intended to change the tyres for winter but never got around to it, and the week of the snow I left the car at home instead. (Commuting by train takes longer and with the bad weather delays I ended up getting the cost of the weekly ticket refunded as compensation!)

At first service I had the wheels rotated, my thoughts are come the autumn to buy a new set of 15" alloys and run CrossClimates thereafter. These tyres are cheaper so the cost of the alloys will be recovered over time, and to match the same size as the factory supplied spare tyre, or sooner if the tyres dopn't last until then.

I've just fitted a new dashcam, front and rear camera set up, just one other modification to make, to arrange for a Webasto sunroof to be fitted, never owned a car without a sunroof, miss not having this already.

Edited by Smileyman on 02/04/2018 at 20:17

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Tue 3 Apr 2018 00:07

SEAT Toledo - My new car - daveyK_UK

How much is the sun roof setting you back?
Have you gone to a specialist installer?

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Tue 3 Apr 2018 01:10

SEAT Toledo - My new car - pinkpanther_75

I've now driven 14,000 miles in my Toledo and apart from a puncture it's been uneventful. I have kept a log of fuel economy and overall the result is just a shade under 45mpg, this is brim to brim not using the OBC. A lot of my driving is at motorway speeds, often in a rollercoaster enviroment, especially when vehicles restricted to 55/60 pull out to lane 2.

I had intended to change the tyres for winter but never got around to it, and the week of the snow I left the car at home instead. (Commuting by train takes longer and with the bad weather delays I ended up getting the cost of the weekly ticket refunded as compensation!)

At first service I had the wheels rotated, my thoughts are come the autumn to buy a new set of 15" alloys and run CrossClimates thereafter. These tyres are cheaper so the cost of the alloys will be recovered over time, and to match the same size as the factory supplied spare tyre, or sooner if the tyres dopn't last until then.

I've just fitted a new dashcam, front and rear camera set up, just one other modification to make, to arrange for a Webasto sunroof to be fitted, never owned a car without a sunroof, miss not having this already.

I made enquiries regarding retro-fitting heated seats - the only option I genuinely wanted, but was unable to specify, given these specific cars were already built.

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Tue 3 Apr 2018 01:14

SEAT Toledo - My new car - pinkpanther_75

Forgot to mention earlier - I log my fuel usage (brim-to-brim) on Fuelly - more here: www.fuelly.com/car/seat/toledo/2017/pinkpanther/65...8

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Sat 15 Sep 2018 19:21

SEAT Toledo - My new car - Smileyman

13 months on, 25k miles driven, now getting a shade under 50 mpg per brim - brim fil up (actual not using the OBC).

Engine, gearbox etc have all run in well, car is very comfortable to drive, only problem is the vandal who damaged the driver's door earlier this year. Car was parked roadside overnight, I have not repaired the damage, it's not too severe and won't be a MOT failure.The 1.0 petrol engine is fine, quiet and not using oil. Pleased I did not go for diesel, the climate for such cars is slowly becoming more and more unwelcoming.

I've already arranged for next service, dealer suggested that I move to long life service plan but I've refused, oil change every 9k miles (not 18k) seems to be a better plan.

All in all pleased with the choice, just a pity to note SEAT have now dropped the Toledo from their range. Still, Skoda have not dropped the Rapid, a good choice for the right price.

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Mon 17 Sep 2018 00:07

SEAT Toledo - My new car - Avant

When answering questions about new car purchase it’s easy to forget the Skoda Rapid. I think it’s being dropped next year in favour of a new model, so there should be good deals around on run-out Rapids.

It fills a rather narrow gap between the excellent and spacious Fabia and (ditto) Octavia: but like the similar Toledo praised above, it does a perfectly adequate job for a lowish price.

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Mon 17 Sep 2018 09:29

SEAT Toledo - My new car - badbusdriver

When answering questions about new car purchase it’s easy to forget the Skoda Rapid. I think it’s being dropped next year in favour of a new model, so there should be good deals around on run-out Rapids. It fills a rather narrow gap between the excellent and spacious Fabia and (ditto) Octavia: but like the similar Toledo praised above, it does a perfectly adequate job for a lowish price.

I read an article in a motoring magazine recently that laid out Skoda's plans for the next few years. The replacement for the current Rapid will be a direct rival for the Golf. This suggests that the Octavia will get bigger still, to prize open a gap which, in reality, isn't really there. While the Octavia is clearly a bigger car than the Golf, it is based on the same floorpan and priced to compete. Surely the USP of buying an Octavia over a Golf is that extra space, especially the boot. I like the current Rapid, and its Toledo twin, because it is quite narrow, yet has a huge boot, but I'm guessing it's replacement with follow the current trend of making cars wider and wider, ignoring the needs of people who live on a narrow street, or have a narrow drive. Hey ho!

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Mon 17 Sep 2018 09:41

SEAT Toledo - My new car - Engineer Andy

When answering questions about new car purchase it’s easy to forget the Skoda Rapid. I think it’s being dropped next year in favour of a new model, so there should be good deals around on run-out Rapids. It fills a rather narrow gap between the excellent and spacious Fabia and (ditto) Octavia: but like the similar Toledo praised above, it does a perfectly adequate job for a lowish price.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if these two cars keep popping up even after they are 'officially' dropped from the UK, as they may continue to be made for the Eastern and Southern European markets for a while, with some unsold new/pre-reg unuesed RHD versions (e.g. from Cyprus, where my Mazda3 came from) end up on Motorpoint (as mine did) or similar for 30%+ off the list price.

About a year ago I saw the Rapid being offered on the broker websites for not much over £10k - a bargain, given most C-sector cars were going for £14k - £18k on those websites even after discounts. At the time, only the unloved Nissan Pulsar came close on price and discount.

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