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Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - argybargy

Following on from other topics, just wondering whether people think that applying threadlock is a wise precaution to take when tightening caliper bracket securing bolts; maybe--if you give the bolt enough welly--as an alternative to using a torque wrench.

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - Collos25

There is no substitute for a torque wrench .

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - Duncan112

I agree 100%, thread lock and correct torque have two different functions, the threadlock helps prevent the fastener coming unscrewed under normal operating conditions, the correct torque is imperitive to ensure the preload on the component is correct.

Thread lock comes in several grades, particularly with small diameter fasteners you have to be sure that the correct grade is used as the higher grade threadlock can render the fitting ununscrewable resulting in a sheared fastener.

Remember also that the torque wrench has to be gripped on the hand grip not halfway down the shaft (You'd be surprised how many so called engineers I've caught using the wrench incorrectly). Also the fastener must run freely down the thread to its point of contact with the component.

Having said all that I can't see threadlock doing any harm on caliper mounting bolts that are to be correctly torqued up.

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - focussed

(You'd be surprised how many so called engineers I've caught using the wrench incorrectly).

Could you please explain what you mean here?

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - bathtub tom

I've come across thread locking compound on calliper fixing bolts when undoing them for the first time and assume it's common practice for it to be used on new cars. I've also seen it on fixings supplied with new brake discs.

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - argybargy

I took my calipers off to renew the discs and there was threadlock on the bolts. I know for a fact that the bolts would have been removed a few years ago by a mobile mechanic whom I use now and again, so unless what I saw was residue from the manufacturing process, he must have put threadlock on them. Never once seen him using a torque wrench, so I assumed he must add threadlock as insurance before giving the bolts plenty of welly.

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - Duncan112

Sorry, only just seen your question - for a torque wrench to operate at the required torque it must be used by holding it at the end of the shaft on the grip, however in some circumstances it is easier to grip the wrench closer to the head, (particularly when using thw wrench in a confined space or up a ladder) this produces a lower torque when the wrench operates - if you don't believe me try it on a torque wrench calibration unit.

Incidentally, if you have access to a calibration unit it's worth checking your wrench at both ends and the mid point of the scale, they can go out of calibration, particularly if they are not reset to zero when you've finished using them.

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - focussed

Sorry, only just seen your question - for a torque wrench to operate at the required torque it must be used by holding it at the end of the shaft on the grip, however in some circumstances it is easier to grip the wrench closer to the head, (particularly when using thw wrench in a confined space or up a ladder) this produces a lower torque when the wrench operates - if you don't believe me try it on a torque wrench calibration unit.

Incidentally, if you have access to a calibration unit it's worth checking your wrench at both ends and the mid point of the scale, they can go out of calibration, particularly if they are not reset to zero when you've finished using them.

Yes I'm aware of the calibration procedure-but can you explain why holding a torque wrench closer to the axis of the fastener that you are torquing will result in a lower measured torque being applied to the fastener?

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - Duncan112

Yes I'm aware of the calibration procedure-but can you explain why holding a torque wrench closer to the axis of the fastener that you are torquing will result in a lower measured torque being applied to the fastener?

In short, not a clue, possibly to do with the effective length of the wrench between the fastening axis and the indicator or pawl, all I can say is that the difference between holding it at the end and half way down is about 10 to 15%. This may not sound a lot but currently I am involved with testing valves to be operated by ROVs subsea and there are quite precise maximum torques that the valve must not exceed when being tested and it is possible for the manufacturer to fudge the test if a close eye is not kept.

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - craig-pd130

As others have said, the threadlock is merely to help prevent the bolt or fixing loosening under load / mechanical stresses.

An example is the cylinder head on my Suzuki GT380 three-cylinder. The head is a one-piece casting which is bolted to three individual, separate cylinder barrels, with 4 studs per barrel.

Even using brand-new nuts & lock-washers on clean threads with an accurate torque wrench when I rebuilt it, some nuts always need checking and re-torquing every couple of thousand miles.

Suzuki themselves state a 2,000-mile check / retorque interval in the factory workshop manual. I'm now trialling the use of Loctite 290 threadlock to see if I can extend this interval. It's a thin fluid that seeps into the thread, then sets anaerobically so that components don't have to be disassembled.

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - galileo

Is it not the case that head bolts/nuts need retorquing because the head gasket settles and/or the bolts/studs stretch? Loctite would only help if the bolts/nuts are actually undoing themselves.

Easily checked by making an alignment line on the fasteners and seeing if the orientation changes with time.

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - focussed

As others have said, the threadlock is merely to help prevent the bolt or fixing loosening under load / mechanical stresses.

An example is the cylinder head on my Suzuki GT380 three-cylinder. The head is a one-piece casting which is bolted to three individual, separate cylinder barrels, with 4 studs per barrel.

Even using brand-new nuts & lock-washers on clean threads with an accurate torque wrench when I rebuilt it, some nuts always need checking and re-torquing every couple of thousand miles.

Suzuki themselves state a 2,000-mile check / retorque interval in the factory workshop manual. I'm now trialling the use of Loctite 290 threadlock to see if I can extend this interval. It's a thin fluid that seeps into the thread, then sets anaerobically so that components don't have to be disassembled.

I doubt that the reason that Suzuki specify a 2000 mile retorque because of the cylinder head retaining nuts are literally coming loose-what's happening is that the gaskets are settling, the studs are stretching and the re-torque is compensating for this. This is the one big reason that angle-tightening was introduced with redesigned cylinder head bolts/studs to remove the need for re-torqeuing and to improve the accuracy of the torque setting.

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - unthrottled

This is the one big reason that angle-tightening was introduced with redesigned cylinder head bolts/studs to remove the need for re-torqeuing and to improve the accuracy of the torque setting.

Quite. Tightening to a fixed torque value intuitively appears to give a more accurate clamping force until one realises that most of the torque is simply overcoming friction between the male and female threads. If you tighten two fasteners to 100lbf.ft on the wrench, the actual clamping force might differ markedlydue to the tolerences between the male and female threads.

Edited by unthrottled on 21/09/2012 at 22:29

Ford Focus 1.6 Climate - Threadlock - craig-pd130

On the Suzi, the gaskets will settle a little, but after the initial retorque from new they're unlikely to squash further, and the torque setting is only 25ft-lb on 14mm nuts & studs.

I believe the loosening is largely due to the one-piece head casting above 3 separate barrels without through-studs to the crankcase ... this allows the barrels to vibrate slightly relative to the head, and I reckon this vibration and slight fretting loosens some of the nuts.

Some aircooled Suzi triple owners cut the 1-piece head into 3 seperate heads (one for each barrel) for easier maintenance -- i.e. you can service an individual cylinder without having to replace all 3 head gaskets -- and this also stops the retorquing cycle!

Edited by craig-pd130 on 22/09/2012 at 21:49