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VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - dieseldogg

just wonderin?

I can only presume it is an optimium size for 4 pot configeration.

Or do some European country(s) punish anything larger in cc's, tax wise?

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - RT

Diesel power/torque outputs have steadily increased since the non-turbo days - a 1.6 is probably more economical than a 1.8 or 2.0 and if it now has enough power to do the job, then it's an obvious way to go.

120bhp and 300Nm is quite respectable.

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - veryoldbear

Mmm maybe 120 bhp and torque if 300Nm is about as much as a "small" gearbox / flywheel / clutch set-up can stand assuming they want to keep the same kit as the equivalent petrol model ?

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - balleballe

probably for 2 reasons that I can think of:

1 - Generally more economical on fuel

2 - Cheaper to run, less tax (lower CO2), less insurance

Essentially - people are downsizing and looking at reducing their running costs

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - Armitage Shanks {p}

My 307 had a turbocharged, inter-cooled 1600 and gave 110 bhp and 60mpg on a steady motorway run. That's enough these days, for a family 5 seat hatchback

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - craig-pd130

As mentioned above, perhaps around 400cc per cylinder is an optimum for thermal efficiency given the new world of DPFs etc. The issue engine designers face these days is that they have to start their designs at the end of the exhaust tailpipe.

Oddly, my Volvo D3 is a 2 litre 5-pot, giving approx 400cc per cylinder. Unusually for a diesel, it's also oversquare (short stroke). However, it goes like ordure from a digging implement and has averaged a genuine 46mpg since new, so it all works nicely ...

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - RT

If cylinder size mattered, it would mean building 2.4 litre 6-cylinder diesels - they don't generally.

Volvo's 5-cylinder is an oddball - a throwback to it's Audi roots and Volvo's development of it since.

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - dieseldogg

The last two posts are homing in on my own thoughts, is it an optimium cylinder size for diesel combustion, but factored with the minimium number of cylinders for reasonable smoothness, i.e. 4 No, but then if one requires 4 cylinders and a 1600 cc engine is now more than capable of developing the necessary torque & horsepower.

End of storey.

I do realize that lorry (truck) engines are usually only 6 cylinder but 12, 13 or 14 litre.

Or for that matter a super efficient "diesel" for supertankers still only has a limited number of VERY large cylinders, so that kinda scotchs the 400cc per cyl theory

gibber

mutter

& twitch

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - RT

I'm not sure it's quite that simple - more cylinders will give more smoothness, power/torque without loosing efficiency BUT they cost more to build and maintain,

Modern 4-cylinder engines are quite smooth, due to lighter, better balanced components and the use of balancer shafts - probably just as smooth as older push-rod straight-6 engines. This means that 2.2 and 2.5 engines are usually 4-cylinder these days rather than 6-cylinder as they would have been in times gone by, even V8 in one case.

So optimum cylinder size is up to 625cc, IMO.

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - diddy1234

I suspect it will be easier to use a 1.6L engine 4 pot to help design a three pot 1.2L engine from this at a later date.

Less developemnt then.

take a 1.6L 4 pot diesel and then chop one cylinder off and hey presto a 1.2L engine with a balancer shaft added for the missing cylinder.

Then the car makers will have a nice low emission engine that they can then charge well over the top to customers.

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - TeeCee

Or for that matter a super efficient "diesel" for supertankers still only has a limited number of VERY large cylinders, so that kinda scotchs the 400cc per cyl theory

Marine and Rail diesels are two-stroke engines. A very different kettle of fish and not comparable with the four-stroke versions.

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - Kiwi Gary
I suspect that
VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - Kiwi Gary
Apologies, my Windows 7 is misbehaving. I suspect that
VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - Avant

Kiwi Gary - sorry you've had a problem. It happens to me occasionally if I'm connected via Internet Explorer. You may find it works better via Google Chrome or Firefox.

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - Armitage Shanks {p}

These are seriously BIG engines!!

tinyurl.com/c9av4ht

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - RT

These are seriously BIG engines!!

tinyurl.com/c9av4ht

No, this is a big engine gcaptain.com/emma-maersk-engine?506 the first oicture is the crankshaft being assembled!

VW, PSA group, Renault & now Honda - Why is 1600cc the new standard for diesels - Chris79

Hello All,

I sued to work on these ships although I never went on ther Emma Maersk I have been on plenty of these ships with the 12 cylinder version of this engine, The 12RTA96C.

To make us all feel better about when we get that 1000 pound buill for a DPF or DMF these engines have had massive problems, Partly through design problems and partly from the manner in which they are being operated.

When they first came out theyv were suffering from cracks in the A Frames big style, This was cured and then we went on to the Cylinder liner problems and so on. At one point in a 8 week period we had to replace all twelve cylinder liners, Not a cheap or easy business.

Incidentally with the current cost of fuel these engines may be capable of 109,000 HP and more but the relaity is that the ships will run round at 10% power if possible to save fuel. This is causing even more problems as the engines are not designed to run at that sort of power for prolonged period. Cue blanking of turbo chargers and lubrication problems!.

On the upside standing next to one of these running a full power is something i will not forget for a while!.