I'm about to change my company car. I currently run a Merc E220 Cdi around 42mpg. Are there any real savings for switching to LPG - I'm thinking of a Volvo S60 and can't for the life of me work out if it's worth it
regards
dominic
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LPG is much cheaper though you will lose 10% performance, it's much smoother, really silky, it's also cleaner inside the engine. Downside is the government could put the tax up, from I think 2005, and you need a 120 litre tank because you can't fill it full. This needs to go somewhere. Unless you do a lot of miles it's probably not worth it.
The people who benefit most from LPG are buying gas guzzers cheap, eg Range Rovers, because of the fuel cost and then converting them.
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Richard
I don't disagree with your quoted advantages of LPG.
I know it's done, but I've never quite seen the logic of deliberately buying a gas guzzler for LPG conversion. Even if fuel costs halve, you're still only on the equivalent of less than 30 to the gallon, nearer 20 in town, and you've got something difficult to sell on. OK you recover the conversion cost quicker, by why spend the money in the first place?
Unles you really need a huge 4x4, surely doing what's suggested here, buying a decent diesel, is far more logical. There are also plenty of diesel 4x4's out there.
The future rates of duty on LPG are also a big risk.
Regards
John S
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Get the D5 and keep the boot.
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Get the D5 and keep the boot.
Volvo builds the lpg tank in underneath the car therefore leaving the boot space untouched. However I agree buy the D5 it has better performance.
VD5D
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I've recently converted a Jeep Cherokee 4 litre. The vehicle does 20-30,000 a year. The cost of conversion was £1950 (expensive underfloor tank). I haven't noticed the power loss but then on a big engine I'm not surprised. It is very smooth and the emissions are much lower. The only downside is having to change the plugs every 10,000 miles. There was no change in the insurance premium.
From what I have seen from adverts and heard from various people, gas-converting a gas-guzzler will add around £1000 to the resale value if carried out at government-recognised specialist. Coverted jeeps certainly seem to fetch a premium.
I was getting around 21mpg before conversion so my effective mpg now is around 35mpg. I will recoup my conversion costs in under a year even with discounting any appreciation in value of the vehicle.
Regarding tax on lpg, the govt. has promised that the tax will not rise above inflation until 2004. Bearing in mind that the tax per litre is 6p, even if they increase this by 100%, it will still be worth it. As the emissions from an lpg vehicle are less than petrol or diesel they would find it politically difficult to be seen hitting a 'green' fuel. Mind you, doesn't mean they won't though!
As regards the point of doing it, some of us like driving big-engined vehicles (there's no substitute for cubes!) and this way I get all the pleasure of a big petrol engine with diesel running costs.
Each to their own I suppose, but for me, conversion is a no-brainer and I would recommend it to anyone contemplating a relatively thirsty engine.
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Nick
I see your logic in that you'd already made the decision to run a Jeep. Your Jeep also covers plenty of miles in a year, and only achieves 21 miles/gall. Your decision to go down the LPG route therefore is a logical way to reduce your costs. if it wasn't available presumably you'd bear the petrol cost.
What I can't follow is the comment I've seen more than once 'I'll buy a cheap gas guzzler and convert to LPG it because I'll recover the cost qicker'. It often seems the decision to convert a vehicle so as to be able to buy cheap LPG fuel preceeds a rational assessment of the need!
As you say the first choice should be the preferred vehicle, the second should be the viability of a fuel change which will be very specific to the annual mileage, etc.
Regards
John S
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I'm not so sure about the resale premium bit.
Our localfree rag motoring section seemed to indicate that LPGs were difficult to shift secondhand.
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Also consider if you want to take the car abroad. Certainly the Channel Tunnel won't allow lpg cars on unless the supply is isolated (so you'd need dual fuel) and I don't think ferries like them either.
Terry
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I believe all converted cars are dual fuel as it is usual to start the engine on petrol and change over to gas when warm enough. This is automatic and happens within a mile.
Funny about ferries etc, my insurance company (DaimlerChrysler, amazingly the cheapest I could find) said they are very happy with lpg and consider it a safer fuel than petrol.
I don't think I would consider it on a car you were not going to keep for long, or if you did under 10k per year. It wouldn't be very logical either to buy a gas-guzzler and convert it just so you can get the equivalent of 30mpg if you were just as happy with 30mpg on a 'normal' car. But it is a way to enjoy a bigger more luxurious car and have similar fuel costs to something more mundane. Just pray nothing else goes wrong! If I were sensible I would be driving a diesel eurobox but unfortunately I love outrageously anti-social cars! I'm doing the sums on a V12 jaguar. So cheap to buy if you get a good-un, admittedly a nightmare if you don't. But to own one just once, for a year or two, before cars like that are banned? Maybe.....
The place that converted my jeep has no problem selling any lpg vehicle at a premium. 34.5p a litre certainly helps. It's certainly a novel experience to come back smiling from paying for a tank of fuel. A trawl through www.autotrader.co.uk seems to suggest that big FWDs hold value better if converted.
Still, it's not for everyone. Each to their own.
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A word about the Jag V12.
HAVE YOU EVER CHANGED THE PLUGS ON ONE!
Get a quote from a dealer and read it sitting down!
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I couldn't afford to let dealer anywhere near a V12 Jaguar! I do it myself. I helped a friend remove, rebuild and refit a V12 from series 1 XJ. What an epic! Worked out fine though. The engine fitted easily into the back of the Citroen CX estate I had at the time when we moved it from the workshop to his garage. Three cheers for hydropneumatic suspension!
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You're obviously aglutton for punishment, that V12 is a big heavy lump! I drive a V12 Daimler for weddings and the boss tells me that if it needs new plugs its going to the scrap yard. You have to take all the injection and inlet manifolds off for access! I did the air con pump on it the other day and that nearly invoked the scrapman!
nice car though.
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The V12 we worked on was a series 1 so good old carbs and no aircon. Makes a big difference. Still very intimidating though, but when you get down to it it's not too bad, just a lot of it!
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You can't use the tunnel,but you WON'T have to pay the London Livingstone Levy!!
There has been an increase in interest in petrol car derived vans, from couriers, doing regular City drops.
Mark
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Assuming 28mpg from an LPG car, and 45 mpg from the diesel, and the LPG car running on 80% LPG and 20% petrol for emergencies/the first mile, the cost per mile is almost identical. (Based on a price of 73.9p per litre for petrol or diesel and 37.9p for LPG).
Therefore, unless you drive in central London every day (but don't actually live there), in which case LPG will recoup £1500 a year, then only the difference in price of the two cars is relevant.
The S60 comes with a choice of CNG or LPG bi fuel conversions; the LPG is close in price to the diesel (£100 cheaper) and the CNG a few hundred more expensive. So, you will save money on running costs and road tax, but very, very little and quite possibly lose it all when you come to sell, as D5s have quite a big premium over petrol vehicles.
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True, but with the lpg car you get all the power and fun of a petrol engine with the running costs of a diesel. It runs much cleaner too and no smelly diesel to deal with. I estimate my petrol use at less than 5%. It goes on to gas within a mile from a cold start and I make sure I never run out of gas. It hurts to be burning @ 74p per litre! There are plenty of places that sell it these days, BP seem to be installing it at most of their outlets.
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