Both the cars in my household have V6 petrol engines with automatic transmission. One is a 2000 Jag S type with 3 litre engine and the other is a 1999 MB W202 with 2.4 litre engine.
At the moment I'm still paying the old-style VED because both cars are pre-2001. But both are well over 100,000 miles now and around 10 years old, so I'll need to start thinking about replacements in the next few years. With the new VED bands, plus the fact that petrol prices are unlikely to go down, I'm thinking the days of the affordable petrol V6 may be over.
I've heard people say that modern 4-cylinder engines are as smooth as old V6's, but I doubt that myself. I've also heard lots of people say that modern diesels are really good and that they have "come a long way", but I've been hearing that for years.
So is there anything that can match the refinement of a petrol V6, or is it possible to get a V6 with a reasonable VED band - say band I or lower?
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You can have a BMW Inline 6 with emissions low enough to get into band I or any number of Diesel V6/Inline 6 models. Offhand I can't think of any V6 Petrol cars with low enough emissions for that band. It's part of the economic conditioning that we're all currently going through under the pretence of climate change (read: government is potless and needs your cash).
For what it's worth the difference per mile in tax between a Band I car (£175/yr) and a Band M car (£405/yr) over the average 10k miles is just 2.3p per mile. Not small but insignificant compared to the relative difference in fuel economy and increase cost that would bring.
Stepping up to a Band K car (£215) would let you have one of many Mercedes/Audi V6 Petrols, I don't think Jaguar have a V6 out of the top bands for cost - a shame because it's a silky smooth plant that you have in your S-Type.
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With the exception of £50K+ cars I feel all cars will be small engined and turbo+ supercharged - max 2 litres.
Just look at the new VW TSi range...........the rest will follow over the next few years.
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You can have a BMW Inline 6 with emissions low enough to get into band I or any number of Diesel V6/Inline 6 models.
Thanks for letting me know that there are 6-cyl diesels. They might sound less like a bus than a 4-cyl diesel engine.
For some reason I thought just about all diesels were 4-cylinder. I think that goes back to when I borrowed a land cruiser 3.0 TD which was a 4-cyl - I assumed that if a 3-litre was 4 then everything that size and smaller must be 4 as well.
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>> thought just about all diesels were 4-cylinder.
I don't know if it's still offered, but there's a VW V10 diesel fitted to some Phaetons and some Touaregs.
The only one I've seen, driven by a mimsing rich lady among the poncy restaurants down the road, was disappointingly noisy and clattery. Of course the driver may not have been able to hear it, especially as she was searching desperately for a parking place.
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There are also V8 diesels. And someone mentions V10s. V8 diesel in some Jags and Range Rovers for a start. 3.6V8.
In response to:
For some reason I thought just about all diesels were 4-cylinder.
A lot of the diesels in BMWs, MB, Jag Lag Rover and Audi for example will be 6 cylinder. Some with twin-turbos.
Edited by rtj70 on 10/11/2009 at 20:53
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>>modern 4-cylinder engines are as smooth as old V6's ?<<
V6 engines aren't smooth as such, but they do sound nice.
In-line 6s are generally the smoothest.
V12s are obviously twice as smooth as I-6s tho )
The world is going turbo-charged - expect the vast majority of engines to be turbo'd 4s and 6s within the next 3-4 years.
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The BMW inline 6 cylinder diesels are superb in my experience, really make you wonder what the point of a large petrol engine is when they can deliver such refinement, performance and economy with the torque of a V8
Having said that their inline 6 cylinder petrols deliver surprising economy and low emissions these days so are probably worth considering, possibly better value second hand too.l
The Audi 3.0 TDi is reputed to be very good although perhaps less economical than the BMW units.
I've experienced the VAG V10 TDi in the Toureg and it's a hoot, however I believe that it is very thirsty so will have high emissions and the chap I know that had one sold it because of the running costs.
On another note re the trend to smaller engines - I heard that the twin turbo 2.2 4 cylinder 204PS Merc engine might even be making it's way into the S Class
Edited by idle_chatterer on 10/11/2009 at 21:10
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The BMW inline 6 cylinder diesels are superb in my experience really make you wonder what the point of a large petrol engine is when they can deliver such refinement performance and economy with the torque of a V8
One of my neighbours has a 330d, and it really does sound superb. A little clattery on cold, but once warmed through it makes a lovely noise. Still has that crisp, metallic exhaust note that all BMW sixes have, and the diesel combustion rattle is very well suppressed. It doesn't sound totally "petrol like" but it is a lovely noise in its own right. Good enough to turn the stereo down and open the window for, IMHO.
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I have a V6 3.2 of 2000 vintage and have figured that when the time comes to change then V6's will be bargains as no one will want to pay the tax or put the petrol in. The savings in the purchase price will wipe out the extra fuel prices and tax and the bigger cars last longer to boot.........happy days.
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I heard that the twin turbo 2.2 4 cylinder 204PS Merc engine might even be making it's way into the S Class
There was a 2-page spread in TG magazine two or three years ago about engine- and platform- sharing in the VAG group, with suggestions for theoretical models made by combining different powertrains and model ranges. They couldn't think of a reason not to put the 2.0TSI in the Phaeton.
They also suggested a Bugatti Veyron BlueMotion though...
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There was a 2-page spread in TG magazine two or three years ago about engine- and platform- sharing in the VAG group with suggestions for theoretical models made by combining different powertrains and model ranges. They couldn't think of a reason not to put the 2.0TSI in the Phaeton.
Yes, I saw that, I think I read of the potential for a 2.2 CDi twin-turbo S Class in Car Magazine around May this year, could have been journalistic musings cf TG but it seemed plausible to me given the output from this (and similar) 4 pot turbo diesels rivals 6 cylinder engines of 5 years ago ?
Having said that, 6 cylinder diesels (like my 330d with the latest incarnation of that engine) have also moved on somewhat with astonishing (imho) power, refinement and economy.
But back to the OP, if you look at the economy and performance of modern BMW 6 cylinder petrols I think there'll be plenty of options for people who like big engines for some time to come.
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when the time comes to change then V6's will be bargains
I'm inclined to agree, but i don't think we'll get quite the ultimate bargains we are hoping for, as i see too many good quality older cars sitting in dock compounds waiting for the boat out.
There must be a point where the export costs outweigh the price that can be made here, certainly for the best examples anyway.
This has happened before in considerable volumes with better MB's etc in the 80's and early 90's, and that was before the eco stasi poked their noses in.
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The low pound will make even more cars a good buy for exporters.
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"The world is going turbo-charged - expect the vast majority of engines to be turbo'd 4s and 6s within the next 3-4 years."
That was my prediction in the late 1970's when Saab launched the 99 Turbo, perhaps i am going to finally be proved right - all be it 30 years later !
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At the minute there are some bargains to be had on pre-2006 V6s.
My car is a C5 3.0 V6 registered in late 2005. The road tax is still £215 a year (band K). If it had been registered after March 2006, it would be the full £405 (band M).
However, because most people haven't latched onto this fact, or are worried it might change, prices for thirsty cars of this age have gone through the floor. I picked mine up for peanuts, several grand less than a 4 pot diesel auto would have cost me, and yet it costs the same to tax as the S80 D5 auto I had before it...
There is always the possibility that the tax might be shoved up again, but after already doing one u-turn (it was to be in the highest band at one point, for a couple of months, then they changed their mind) I think they government will probably leave the existing cars alone, for now....
I can see the way the wind is blowing, my next car will probably be a straight six or V6 diesel, and after that, I'll be forced to buy a confounded small capacity 4 pot turbo (or even 3 pot, eeek!), because that's probably all there will be. :(
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