This is not for me, but my dad although this Fiesta has 11 months MOT the suspension and steering have developed all sorts of noises lately some of it was fixed under the advisory (back axle bushes etc) but the steering is now making a racket as the anti roll bar. My parents spend around £700 on this car in repairs and around £1700 in fuel so it dosn't really have any redeeming features, its got to the point where none of us really feel that save in it.
That said it is reliable apart from a slight thirst for oil. Its also badly rusting round one of thew wheel arches which has spread all round the rear quarter panel, the only fix is now a entyire new panal which is a big job.
My dad does need a fairly big boot (the Fiesta MK4 is fine) for his jobs equipment and mainly does city work however has to do a 200 mile round trip every three weeks to see his elderly parents. My dad is currently doing around 12-13k a year and his MK4 Fiesta Ghia will be on 84k soon although the engine sounds fairly healthy its not going to last that much longer.
My parents will find it a little hard to get finance but should be able to get a loan of around 20% APR without any trouble. My idea was to get a car payable over 5 years. Street cred and image is not a problem nor is power. We just need something with no fuss and that is safe and reliable. The choice is ever buy something on the scrapage for around £5k with the £2k discount or buy something like a 5 year old Mondeo. Either way my parents are getting sick of constant garage trips and the 25mpg the Fiesta currently returns so I have told my parents I will look into cars which might make a good replacement. There is no point on buying an older car, we want something newish which will provide at least five years of reliable motoring.
In order to afford to pay the loan back there would have to be big savings in road tax and on fuel bills and also be petrol. The FIAT Panda would be perfect but the boot is too small, it must also be five doors.
Any ideas of a brand new car which could fit the bill? I already have a pretty good idea what to look for on the used market.
I made similar thread about this car about a year ago, but they have spent £100's on repairs since then.
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With an older car they could be swapping one moneypit for another... a new car has got a better chance of being more reliable... one vote for scappage (I'm not a fan of it if it gets rid of a decent car, but this sounds like a good case to get rid of rubbish!).
20% APR sounds steep though... have they tried shopping around? MoneySupermarket, et all?
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I guess they could easily get it secured against the house. A second hand would have to be fairly new for reasons above, the Fiesta is not that bad its just that its got to the point where the bills won't stop and even the parts which work perfectly are due to fail.
On the other hand given the amount of money spent on it seems a shame to be scrapepd but you usualy have to wait months under the scrappage anyway so its not too much of a waste.
Another consideration is that we need the engine to be as simple as possible we don't want to buy a car which needs £2k spending on injectors in four years time.
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I would think 20% APR is very high for a car loan. I wouldn't know the APR rate on my credit car ('cos I pay it off when I use it to book holidays etc) but I'm sure it's not that high! And that's a credit car.
What's the real budget - the Fiesta is not worth much apart from what you'd get as scrappage.
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Yeah I reckon with the noises is the Fiesta is worth around £450, would be £800 if it was in good condition (high spec small cars sell for a lot in Manchester) it has all the extras, quick clear, electric seat, windows, PAS, windows, mirrors etc.
The real budget would be around £100 a month I would guess as the savings in fuel should pay for a lot of that so over 5 years that would be £6k so the actual real amount of that would be say £4k, £2k of scrappage means a car which retails new for around £6k I don't see how its enough.
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I don't see how its enough.
I don't think it's enough either. And if the loan really was at 20% APR the cost could be a lot more than £100pm.
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A quick quote on a £4000 loan online over 5 years shows a rate of 15.3% APR with monthly payments around £93. If they cannot pay more than £100 then your figures are about right and I cannot see how they'd get a big enough new car for the budget.
For £4000 you'd get a fairly new car, especially if you go for one bigger than a Fiesta.
Edited by rtj70 on 30/09/2009 at 18:48
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Yep this is my thoughts but it has to be have lost enough value to make it new enough but at least £4k cheaper than what the car would cost new. Mind you the dealers have to pay £1k for the scrappage so my dad might be able to get £1k px for his Fiesta if my dad paid the forcourt price for a used car. I am thinking of a Hyundai/Kia type thing which still has a lot of warranty left. My mate drove a Kia though and said it was awful but that was just a 1.0 Picanto I assume the others are better.
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7.7% apr for personal loans:
www.nationwide.co.uk/loans/default.htm
The illustrative cost of borrowing £5000 over 5 year(s) at our competitive rate of 7.7% APR Typical:
Monthly Repayment £100.05 ; Total Amount Payable £6003.00
As Rattle says, best bet for him and his dad to meet all his criteria for the size/doors etc. is possibly to go for a 3 or 4 yrs old Mondeo which can be easily found for under £4k.
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Yeah 20% APR is just silly.
The only new car I think we could afford is a bog standard Rio and you don't even get central locking or electric windows with that so it will almost feel like a comedown from the Fiesta.
With my dads Fiesta is is the suspension which is constantly giving trouble which is why I am thinking of something like a second hand Mondeo if there is one with cheap enough tax. Focuses and Astras fetch too much on the used market to be worth bothering with considering image is not an issue.
I also have a feeling my dad would want another Ford because they are always so nice to drive. He has an arm injury so the gear change would have to be light and swift just like it is on the Fiesta, he sometimes struggles a little bit with the gears on my Corsa.
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You might get a good part-ex price against a new car but I doubt you'd get anything as generous against older cars. They would have to move the car on and that costs them.
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Just had a look on ebay and the second hand larger car bargains seem none existant, even 5-6 year old Mondeos are going for well above £3k given that these have at least 60k we could be swapping some problems for another :(.
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For a number of reasons (previously discussed0 people are being priced out of the second hand car market.
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Just had a look on ebay >>
try autotrader. 3yr old Mondeos with under 80k miles for around £4k to £5k.
But then I doubt if they will meet your strict mint criteria. ;-)
Edited by jbif on 30/09/2009 at 19:07
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Local diesel second hand car dealer has cars in the price range jbif mentions. But if the loan is for £4k you won't get the car as new or as mint as you require.
A lot of decent cars are currently being scrapped.
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You mean that place in Heaton Moor? I often wondered it that place was any good.
The problem is at £4k it has to be a good car which will last, otherwise we may as well just keep repairing the Fiesta as it would be cheaper (no loan).
The other alternative is just to keep using the Fiesta until it breaks then let my dad use my Corsa for long distance motorway work. That way if we have to then buy an older car for say £2k it becomes a must rather than a money saving gamble.
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Have a look at Fords of Winsford - very good and well established car-supermarket.
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Yes I was referring to that place in the Heaton's. As I don't have any info on them I wouldn't say anything positive or negative. But their prices were similar to what jbif found. They will be more for a Mondeo there because they only do diesels.
EDIT: And the place I'm referring to is not in Heaton Moor. It's either Heaton Norris or Heaton Chapel. Probably the former.
Edited by rtj70 on 30/09/2009 at 19:44
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Ford are doing 4.9% on some cars, Kas and Fiestas. The term involves a deposit,( Scrapper + cash), nothing to pay for 2 years and then a final payment to complete the purchase. Something like scrapper + £2000 to get started, 2 years nothing and £4000 to pay and keep it, or pay nothing and hand it back.
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 30/09/2009 at 20:04
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Thanks I will look into that :).
Just had a quick discussion about it and decided the worst thing we can do is to buy an older car which we don't know the history of, so its either keep the Fiesta or buy a new or nearly new car.
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There seems to be a lot of last generation (mk6?) Fiestas with very low milleage being sold at Ford dealers for decent prices. Seen a 2005/2006 examples with 1 owner and around 16k on the clock for just over £5k. It would depend how much they are willing go down by on these prices.
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Hi Rattle,
The cheapest route to car ownership has to the bangernomics way, however, you need a certain level of mechanical knowledge and confidence.
Have you considered an i10 under scrappage? Its a very small car but feels surprisingly big inside, a bit tardis like. Heres a few pros and cons for you:
Pros:
5 year warrenty
cheap to buy
Good review by HJ (and everyone else)
56mpg
£30 road tax
5 door
air conditioning as standard
Cons:
Small boot (but if never taking passengers rear seats can be folded down)
I think the advantage over the Panda is that the i10 is a five door.
Take a look at www.moneysavingexpert.com/cards/ for loans
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It's a shame the thought of new(er) car purchase wasn't thought of 2-3 years ago - you've now got to find ways of paying 10-15%(or maybe more..) over the odds for a new car - taking into account interest charges on the capital amount. It also means you're cutting off any manufacturer offers on free finance after paying a 20-25% deposit - these offers are quite common.
The above not any real use now I realise, but a pointer to the future maybe.
The thing with loans is that you get your car sooner just the once - the first time. If you save regularly in advance for large capital purchases you pay less (you get accruing interest & pay none) & can look at useful '0%-type finance with large deposit offers' come trade-in time or even pay total in cash. More choice for less money.
Mind you, thanks to all those people that do - my bank shares (although shot temporarily..!)
always pay good dividends.
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Just one point to add... if they have a Fiesta now and its sufficient for their needs what is the point in getting something bigger like a Mondeo?! If the small car is ok then stick with it and go down the scrappage scheme... too many people they need a big car when in reality its the last thing they need!
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How about as new a berlingo/partner as you can get for £4k? The HDI engines are pretty good and the more basic n/a 1.9's meet your requirement for simplicity. All are spacious and practical and should be reliable and reasonably durable.
Edited by Rob81 on 01/10/2009 at 11:19
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Given how pleased you are with yours, how about another Corsa (or even an Astra)?
Vauxhall have 0% Finance, 1 years free insurance and £2k scrappage allowance offers on at the moment.
£2k scrappage allowance, plus the saving your dad will make on insurance (circa £600 p/a in Manchester?), and the reduced running costs should mean the budget isnt blown. Stick the 20% deposit on an interest free credit card for 18 months (if they don't have the cash available) and 3yrs worry and interest free, warranty covered motoring are all yours to enjoy.
I would imagine the 1.2/1.3/1.3 CDTI engines are all pretty cheap to tax too..........
This would obviously apply to any manufacturer offering the same deals. I seem to remember seeing Mazda 2's and FIAT Grande Puntos were available at pretty good rates.
Edited by NickS on 01/10/2009 at 12:04
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Been doing some research. My dad says he currently gets 60 miles out of £10 of fuel which I find quite shocking considering he does 12,000 miles a year. With a new city car he would instantly wipe 1/3 of that if not more considering his car is an 83k push rod engine!
I need to find a city car with a large boot as sticking the rear seats down is not ideal. He also been spending on average around £70 a month in repairs.
I am trying to get my parents to see how much money they are pouring into this old car and that a brand new car won't cost any more but the car has to be as good as the Fiesta otherwise its a lot of debt for compromise.
I am planning of seeing some cars then making a short list so far I have:-
Kia Rio - Depends if they will discount otherwise the base spec is too basic
Hyundai i110 - probably too small
Panda - too small
Suzuki Alto (new shape)
Nissan Pixio
All the Fords/Vauhalls are just too expensive.
I will put my rent up a little as I am not paying them enough (not told them this yet) which means they should be able to afford £7500 so £5500 with scrappage.
Edited by Rattle on 01/10/2009 at 19:46
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The Kio Rio is looking like the best new car worth considering but the 1.4 is the only one worth buying and its the same road tax and insurance group as the Fiesta also with a combined 44mpg I am not sure its going to be any better on fuel than the Fiesta :(.
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Werent Hyundai doing the i20 at £5995 on scrappage?
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I think there is far too much demand for them now :( Will check it out ;).
Decided the Rio dosn't really offer any running costs savings other than repairs so its pointless.
Edited by Rattle on 02/10/2009 at 00:17
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£10 petrol per 60 miles is roughly 28mpg depending on price per litre. I can see how a saving on petrol can be made but not sure if it will make as big a difference as you hope.
As for putting the rent up.... none of my business and that's fine whilst you're living there but if you decide to move out when they still have the loan in 3 years time you may cause problems. In fact you won't be able to move out if they end up relying on money from you to help pay the loan or current car running costs.
So how about you scrap their car and you buy a new one for them (really for you) and you give the Corsa to them and you get the new car :-) Wait too long and the scrappage scheme will be no more.
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Skoda Fabia, slightly bigger than Panda, 5drs, boot also bigger, 3 Yr warranty £5995 on scrappage, looks nice in red.
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Erm Fabia just assumed they were too pricey.
Rob I had thought about buying a new car for myself then giving my dad the Corsa but not sure how well it will work and my Corsa is far from perfect, it will need work doing on it at some stage I never bought it for 12k a year, I bought it for 4k a year.
Also done the maths on fuel savings and you're right its not going to make that much difference, considering its nearly all city work 28mpg is not that bad. The offical combined figure was 41mpg but the engine does have wear.
Apart from all the knocking noises and the racket the steering makes (suspect something is catching on the suspension) it is running well so the only rush is really when the scrappage ends which is why I need to make a decision.
I think really this has to be a new car or we just keep the Fiesta longer, it passed the MOT with all these noises so I am not sure if its that bad, but since then we had the front bushes, rear axle bushes and CV joints replaced (some of that was advisories) but the noises remain so it seems the more we spend on it the more noises it makes.
If I get time on saturday I will visit a lot of dealers and get a feel, I have a feeling the Kia will feel too cheap compared to the Fiesta (as its a Ghia model).
The scrappage ending soon is the only real rush here.
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I have a feeling the Kia will feel too cheap compared to the Fiesta (as its a Ghia model).
This is an old Ford. Newer Kia's probably a lot better than you think.
The Kia/Hyundai dealer on the A6 might be worth popping into if you're passing. It's opposite Heaton Moor Road so I'm sure you pass it often. Especially if you ever use Microdirect opposite McVitie's.
P.S. I once had a Fiesta Ghia albeit on a 1990 reg.... it was still cheap ;-)
Edited by rtj70 on 02/10/2009 at 01:07
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Yeah but this is the MK4, it has leather steering wheel, velour (haha) seats etc so it is quite plush inside, the most tacky bit is the fake wood on the dash. All the reviews of the Hyundais/Kais seem to mention vague obstructive gear change which would be a problem for my dad has a has a metal plate in his arm. He finds my Corsa difficult to change gear and I don't have any problem with it for example neither did my mate.
I will probably have to go to that Microdirect tomorrow so I will pop into that dealer then I know exactly where it is now you mention it so if I am at MD I will visit tomorrow and see what I think. Once I have seen the Kias/Hyundais in the flesh I have a much better idea.
I will enquire about interest rates and such and just see if its worth going any further or just keep the Fiesta a bit longer and buy a 6 year old sort of car.
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Thinking about it, the dealer is probably Hyundai only but it's where I said. Called Hatfields.
www.hatfieldsstockporthyundai.co.uk/
Possibly worth popping in?
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Because mortgage rates are low at the moment wouldn't it be worthwhile considering remortgaging their house, buying a new car, and paying back the extra interest over the proposed 5 years?
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Rattle, have you considered the Perodua Myvi or VW Fox? They start at 7-7.5k before scrappage.
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