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@OP: If you were to offer me a choice between a Saab 93 and a Mondeo as a company car for high mileages I would take the Mondeo. It is more comfortable and far nicer to drive than any Saab. I'm afraid Saab have been rather left behind by the competition.
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Well folks, that is a pretty comprehensive response and a SAAB comes off the shopping list.
Very interesting comments about the Volkswagon 1.9 engines. I had thought that they were under- powered apart from a sudden peak of power when the turbo kicks in, making general tootling round a bit frustrating, but that is not based on ever having driven one, so I am grateful for the comments. I know it is a well proven tried and tested engine, that was not the concern. What I did not want is for the poor chap to be driving what I assumed would be an underpowered car, particularly considering that on occasion it would not be unknown for him to have 12 hour stints in it (rare but possible).
Having a smaller lower power engine screaming away on the autobahn against a higher power one running at lower revs was my consideration.
From my perspective a 140hp (I know the torque is the more important part, but also it is the nature of the power delivery) engine v. a 95-105hp engine would seem to make the more sense. Every engine is different I will grant you, so I will suggest that he goes out and tries a few.
When I went from my early S60 D5 (with the 163hp engine) to my current 520d with the 177hp engine I expected a more 'grunty' engine. Actually the Volvo felt by far the more powerful engine (possibly to do with gearing too having a 5 speed rather than 6 speed in the BM), so I am not unaware that maybe the same could be the case with the VAG 1.9. We shall see.
Thanks for all the input.
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Sometimes it's tricky to compare on paper figures too. Of those two (Volvo D5 Vs BMW 2.0d) the D5 may make 163bhp, but that is over a range of revs. It actually peaks at 177bhp, just like the BMW. Couple this with the lower gearing and the additional cylinder (power stroke every 144 degrees on a 5 pot, compared to 180 degrees of crank movement in the BMW 4 pot) and you can see why it felt quicker!
I'd also be thinking about aspects like noise and vibration and motorway cruising speed, which I'd guess is quite important if there's the possibility of a 12hr run? I suppose that could be more crucial than outright power where fatigue is concerned.
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considering that on occasion it would not be unknown for him to have 12 hour stints in it (rare but possible).
In that case its seat comfort, ride and noise that matters.
VWs score highly on the first two for long (6 hour plus) stints.
I do hope however that he will not be doing 12hour driving stints for the company without the required rest breaks.
slightfatdirector could end up as muchthinnerafteraspellinjaildirector.
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Aha! Good point. Could do with losing a stone or two, but maybe that is not the way to do it.
No, we are quite sensible, but I also beleive in someone doing things to suit them to a certain extent rather than having me dictate to them.
For example I would rather drive back from the south of Germany in one go, have a snooze on the tunnel before the last stint back home in the UK to snuggle into bed with Mrs.SFD as opposed to breaking the journey up into smaller chunks over two days. If that suited the new guy too, then fine, up to him.
If he wanted to spend more time doing the same trip I would have no complaints at all. Everyone is different and whilst I can do a 12 hour stint in one go I do not and never would expect someone else to do the same. (slightly) Fat director yes, slave driver, no. Hopefully the reason I am asking for others viewpoints shows I am trying to get the right thing for the new chap, or at least present him with a considered short list.
My concern over the comfort and noise issue was partly engine related (hence my assumption that a bigger more powerful engine would run at lower revs and make for a more relaxed cabin).
SAAB always used to be renowned for comfy seats, and Mondeo's are good from past experience. Good to hear the same about VW cars too.
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To give the new guy that genuine GT/pan European experience you could lend him the Jag. :)
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Now there's an idea ifit...
Quick calculation though: 12 hours / 80mph average = 960 miles @ 15mpg = 64 gallons = £290 in fuel, 4 fuel stops and loads of stress for me. Ouch.
Nah, I would rather buy him the SAAB!
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I've had my Mondeo IV 2.0 TDCI Zetec estate for 15 months and 13,000 miles now (company car).
I'm very pleased with it. Huge amount of room, very comfortable (seats better than the Passat it replaced), much better refinement (road noise, suspension bump / crash and engine noise lower than Passat), pretty quick on the road and a real average of 42mpg.
Service every 12,500 miles, it had one trip to the dealer to have an "oil service" display reset (quite common problem), nothing else.
No DPF issues, despite my doing over 60% of my driving on urban / town roads. The Ford system seems robust and effective if it gets a decent run every 500 miles or so.
My only complaint is that there was some sloppy assembly-line work in the engine bay which I've fixed myself (intercooler hoses / vac pipes not properly connected etc), to the benefit of drivability. A disinterested owner may never know how good the engine SHOULD be, because they would never find or fix these minor niggles -- and most dealers wouldn't find them either.
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Having an old car as a company car is very hard on staff on account of the bik rules, isn't it?
If tax is the only driver - and I appreciate H&S may be more important/perceived fairness/provision of company car/whatever - then it's probably cheaper all round (more tax efficient) to sell the cars to staff at 3 years old, and pay a mileage rate which would cover all their costs.
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Thanks for the feedback Craig. You have told me from experience what I expected to hear.
Mapmaker, a six month / 12 month old car is not old is it?
As far as Bik goes they of course have to pay tax on the list price of the car when new. That is unavoidable. But if I bought him a new £20,000 car he would pay exactly the same tax as they would on a 12 month old one bought for £12,000. My view would be that I would prefer to drive that long distances rather than a new £12,000 car that would be significantly smaller.
I do accept that when the car is next to worthless then the relative tax they would still be paying on it's list price when new might be an issue. But generally when the value falls to more than the tax cost the car will be close to retirement anyway and a new(ish) one will be round the corner.
As far as them buying a car at 3 years and running it on a mileage rate is concerned it does not work. Unless you pay an enhanced salary (extra cost to the company), which again is taxed to the employee, then trying to run it at the official government mileage rates is very tough. One of our guys did that a few years ago. Bought a 2 year old diesel Sharan. After tax, insurance, servicing and fuel he was not quite breaking even. Then he had two punctures in quick succession and a year later the gearbox fell appart, all to be replaced at his cost. Didn't work for him. In fact we saw some very creative mileage claims before he left that were helping him to cover his costs..........
My view is that our guy will need a car to do the job. Why put the onus on him to run it and have all the costs and responsibilities falling on his shoulders? I take that as our responsibility. We give him the car, a company credit card to cover all costs, we insure it, tax and MOT it and fix anything that goes wrong. We maintain the condition of it and all he has to do is pay our lovely government a few hundred pounds in tax a year for the benefit. Not too bad really?
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So is it going to be a Mondeo, a 93 or something else?
I'm no tax expert and know little about the costs of administering an employee car scheme but it seems to me that if you have around 12k to spend on a car then a 6/12 month old Mondeo seems hard to beat.
Edit: A quick search on Autotrader picks up a lot of old shape Accord Diesels in that price range, some with high spec. I think the new shape Accord would be hard to find for the same money for another few months.
Edited by Lou_O on 03/06/2009 at 18:24
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