the dt had it right yesterday with Mandelson coming back with a piece of paper and the italians retreating back to rome
brilliant
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Er there is nothing Wrong with vauxhall, as it has been said on another post about Vauxhall they consistently sell cars, they are Upto date and even "Jezza" said the range looks good.
All the current situation is
GM's fault NOT Vauxhall/opel's
Just because they don't have the snob factor of other brands all the ones I have had have delivered high milages, and although not trouble free what car is?
I would rather have a Vauxhall than anything made from our freinds in France any day after the other two appaling examples of "engineering" I had before.
Ok so Vauxhall may not be the best but sales figures speak for them selves (fleet or not) they may not be a luxury brand but neither is Ford, Renault, to name but a few.
Yes the indicators may be annoying but so are seat belts that constantly pin you to the seat, you get used to it, get over it.
All my Vauxhalls have done starship miles, that's a good enough advert for future products for me.
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I used to work with a guy who had a B-reg Cavalier Sri with 280k on the clock, original engine/box. It sounded sweet as a nut. Tough cars and very simple - my old 1.6 L had a cambelt change done for £70 - more like £700 these days.
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I used to work with a guy who had a B-reg Cavalier Sri with 280k on the clock original engine/box.
My B plate 1.8 SRI had 140k on it when I got rid of it. I was in my early 20's and used to thrash that car everywhere. It got an oil and filter change every 6k religiously, but it really did get a hard time. The engine was still peachy smooth, used virtually no oil, and still pulled like a train. Let me down once when the fuel pump relay burnt out. Otherwise a perfect record.
My fondest memory of it was how free revving it was. It was one of those engines that you didn't feel like you were damaging by driving hard. Super smooth, happy to wind round to 6.5k without any vibes or harshness. Compared to the breathless old donks you found in Fords and Volkswagens of the time, it was a revelation. Weedy, messy looking thing though, when you lifted the bonnet.
Would also run on Unleaded with just a 5 degree ignition retard (good old twiddly distributor!) :-) Strangled it a bit though.
An engine well ahead of its time. The only bit I hated was the stupid arrangement of using the eccentrically mounted water pump as a cambelt tensioner. Was a swine to move, and always leaked afterwards!
Cheers
DP
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I've had four Vauxhalls - a pair of Nova saloons just after I'd passed my driving test (neither of which went wrong but there again there wasn't much to go wrong). I then moved on to an 8-valve Cavalier SRi - understeer city on the original tyres but once I'd put decent ones on it wasn't bad - nice seats, but eventually began to rust inside the front wheel arches.
Then I moved on to a 16-valve SRi, and that's when the problems started - oil blowback into the air mass sensor, failed crankshaft TDC sensor. That was the last one.
Since then, I've been put off by poor ride and an interior that looked like it was designed with a set square and a tin of Halfords silver paint. They're making progress with the Insignia, but to me it's too little, too late.
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When you think every new car designed spends a lot of time in strange , black body cladding being thrashed around remote parts of the world , whilst versions of the mechanicals sit running on test benches for weeks on end, you do wonder how so many reach the real world with problems you would think they'd have spotted.
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Very true Mr X no doubt there's a cost/benefit analysis there somewhere, either don't want them to last 'too long' or the old it will work out cheaper in recall/warranty work
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I bet a lot of car makers don't do proper testing of their cars just to save money.
If it were me running a car company I would give away the first batch of cars to the staff (as company cars) and tell them to pile the miles on.
It would be best for the car company to find the problems before the customers do.
I doubt this happens in the real world, just an idea
Edited by diddy1234 on 01/06/2009 at 09:20
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If it were me running a car company I would give away the first batch of cars to the staff (as company cars) and tell them to pile the miles on.
Certainly Lotus/GM were doing that around 1990, friend of mine used to work there, you could have the Lotus Carlton for the weekend provided you put at least 500 miles on it :-))
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I've owned various Vauxhall's since 1986 and touch wood have had very little go wrong with them.
Mk1 Astra, Mk2 Cavalier (x 2off), Mk3 Cavalier (x 2 off), Vectra-B, Vectra-C (x 2 off).
The only car that left me stranded at the side of the road was my previous Vectra-C when T-boned a VW Passat with it.
Still unsure if I want an Insignia though.
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I've had five Vauxhalls and had problems with only one, an early diesel Vectra... only the engine, though... the rest were reliable, ordinary motoring... like most cars they compete with...
I do wonder if the OP is a windup... coming from a Focus owner?? ;)
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interesting article in one of today's national dailies by design guru Stephen Bayley in which he takes a wide, historic look at the Vauxhall brand and concludes: "No one has ever gone to bed dreaming of one day owning a Vauxhall. And in a business where dreams become sales, that?s fatal."
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Never heard of Stephen Bayley but would disagree with his thinking.
Yes we all dream of exotic cars one day but doesn't mean to say "where dreams become sales"......
Very few of us ever get to live our dreams, doesn't mean we stop consuming and buying meantime!!
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I personally don't think that anything has gone particularly wrong with Vauxhalls, they've not recently been particularly right either. As a previous poster noted, the problem is the competition, Fords are more fun to drive and seem to be better designed/ put together. VAG's have a more desirable badge, and the Japanese equivalents are perceived as more reliable. The image problem does exist, to an extent that I've known people who owned Vauxhall's putting an Opel badge on them, despite being the same car.
The Mk 3 Cavalier SRi I had was ok, nothing special. My dad has owned what I consider to be the best car they made, a Carlton 3.0GSi, now that was a wonderful car. I currently run a Mondeo ST and would not consider the new Insignia even against my older car as I was less than impressed by a test drive.
I think the Corsa has served the market well for youngsters, however the new Fiesta seems to be taking a few of those who would have gone for the Corsa thanks to it's percieved image being more "with it".
It'll be interesting to see how they fare over the coming months.
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what with the likes of recent cars from Korea (Hyundai / Kia), there build quality is getting better all of the time.
I suspect that the main car makers (not just Vauxhall) are not progressing forward as quickly compared to the korean manufacturers.
I am not suggesting that the Korean car manufacturers have better build quality, far from it.
What I am saying is that the Korean manufacturers seem to be making bigger strides in build quality compared to the main rivals.
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"No one has ever gone to bed dreaming of wanting a Skoda" - but they are shifting them (or at least they're shifting the more sensibly marketed models). Some buyers are realists.
Books could be written on GM but it's interesting to compare their strategy over the last 10 years or so with Ford - not an unreasonable comparison. GM have made some truly dreadful strategic errors - diesel engines for instance. With a huge Euro diesel market, GM have merely bought their way in from VM, Isuzu and Fiat, leaving them with no autonomy of certainty of supply when contracts expire. Compare this with Ford who make diesels for themselves and PSA and who bought (a lousy) fuel systems supplier to undercut Bosch on price. There won't be any more Fiat diesels in GM cars soon...
GM have never appreciated that the European market is a more sophisticated one than that in the US. Styling is a personal thing, but Euro Fords look European both in appearance and concept. GM just seem to slap more chrome onto some world "platform" or other - and the result looks just that.
Wankel engine development spending, exiting premium brands, re-badging of Third World products, light commercials - these are all areas in which GM's understanding of the European market has been woefully lacking and where poor far-reaching decisions have been made. It has cost them dear and I suspect similarly poor decisions have been made in the US. They are certainly responsible for a complete absence of US technology being directed at fuel efficiency - and president Obama has the nouse to realise this.
I'm no lover of Ford (they suceeded in making the worst car I've ever owned) but I much admire their business strategy - they'll leave GM for dead.
659.
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What's gone wrong with Vauxhall cars ?
Short answer : Nowt.
Maybe GM in the US has gone wrong, but I believe that Opel/Vauxhall have a strong range of cars.
I'm not going to get into Focus better than Astra, Fiesta better than Corsa, Mondeo better than Insignia lark. To me, thats like saying "My Dads tougher than your Dad"
At the end of the day they (Opel) are producing cars people want to buy for whatever reason. I think some on here are very patronising to suggest buying a mainstream car lacks imagination.
Talk about familiarity breeding contempt! LOL!
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davidh:
Agreed
Vauxhall/Opel are making cars that sell, Vauxhall is a profitable company therefore they must be doing something right.
This whole argument is pointless like the above mentioned ?my dad is bigger than your dad??
There is nothing wrong with Vauxhall this whole sorry mess is all down to GM, who don?t understand what the European market want and are just interested in making huge amounts of profit
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None of you supporting Vauxhall have read the Car Mechanics article on buying a second hand Vectra?
I recommend it- I read it in WHS.
I drove a Mark1 and Mark2 Cavalier. The latter was great and much in advance of its competitors.
But GM engineering cut cost out of the Vectra: and reliability so that the car does NOT tolerate abuse.
Clarkson was right.. (and I am no fan of his).
GM in the US has done nothing strategically correct for decades...Any company like GM which BUYS the Hummer brand has zero vision.. Just like Chrysler..
Edited by madf on 01/06/2009 at 20:02
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didn't the headlights on the early Vectras used to be sealed units ?
An expensive light bulb change.
The early mark 4 Astra's used to have a sealed unit for the driving lights (worked out expensive to change the whole cluster)
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I was just reading an interesting article about Vauxhall which states that the name is a ghost brand, its spirit long gone.
General Motors tore the industrial heart out of the carmaker by forcing it to abandon creative design.
For 40 years the Luton factory has been glueing and screwing Vauxhall badges on German-designed Opels.
Do we, as a nation actually make anything anymore I often wonder?
R.I.P. Once Great Britain.
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My cavalier Mk 3 SRI's ( had a few ) where brilliant & easy do 180K before you had to start spending dosh. Reliable & fun to drive . Excellent performance & fuel economey was excellent. used to average 44 without trying.
Vectra Sri 140 was slow, lathargic , heavey on fuel, dreadful around town, diabolical headlights & mirrors. poor vision for parking .
I had headgasket, cam & crank sensor ( several ) ECU failure, alternator fail, air con pipes rubbed through air box. Air con pump failed. Air flow meter. Oil leaks. Diff exploded requiring new gearbox as old one was not repairable. central locking motors, ABS module & ABS sensors. Drop links. Wheel bearings where a regular. Coil spring broke. fuel tank sendor failed. tail gate struts I just aboout rebuilt it at 90.000 miles but worse was to come. The evaporator burst ( big job ) & it went on & on. It was a total pig.
I came to the conclusion it was total cheap parts & poor design but the omega to follow was nearly as bad!. Changed it for a peugeot 206HDi new for the wife & lets just say never ever buy another Peugeot. Bought Fords & ford related cars since & they have all been fab.My brother had vauxhalls like me for 20 years but he's gone to Ford for build quality & reliability.
My friend has aVectra 2.2Dti & within 6 months of it comming out of its 3 year warranty have had wheel bearings, EGR valve twice, injector wiring loom £400 Job & throttle control another £300 & just dread whats next. Would they have another ? not a chance
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b308
it is not a windup
yes i drive a focus now, but i have had many different makes peugeot, fiat, citroen even had a yugo at i one stage and had astra mk I van for work many years ago, which was unbelievable for a 1200 engine, so it's nothing personal about vauxhalls
all i was stating is, what i have read on the tech forum and that you would think that the last thing to cause trouble in this day and age is clutches and camshafts
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What annoys me about my Corsa compared to Fords of the same age is a lack of design flair. Too many bits seem to be off cars it is almost as if GM hired BL's management from the 70's.
My Corsa B is pure Cavilier MK3, Astra F, Astra G and even bits of Corsa C. The bits don't quite blend in properly, Ford do this too but seem to have made it an art form.
I think the problem with Vauxhall is they are hard to get passionate about, I can fall in love with a Ford (Puma) or a FIAT (Coupe) but not a VX. However they sell because they have huge support, lots of dealers, are cheap, look good (VX have a very good looking range) and are ok made.
I think Opel just need to find a niche or there will be an over supply.
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My '99 Vectra misfired gently. It had done for 4 years and 40,000 miles. The garage's advice was to do nothing (apart from a pointless change of the plugs), as there was a whole list of possible known frequent causes for misfiring, and it could have been any one of them. I cannot recall the whole list these days, but coil pack; gummed up valves cracked air intakes and sundry others spring to mind.
Cheap motoring, mind.
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MM - I think that's more a statement about your garage's capability than the car's.
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After the Cavalier I mentioned above, a mk2 Astra, and various friends experiences, I always considered Vauxhalls to be incredibly reliable. When the first Ecotec engines came in though, it seemed to change.
Sis-in-law had an early (93) Corsa GSI 16v which basically never ran right from the day it was registered until the day she chopped it in for a Fiesta three years later. Persistent misfires, power loss, random MIL illuminations, and a full rebuild when the timing belt jumped and smashed four valves into their corresponding pistons. It was always in having something done to it.
That's without the bodykit discolouring and peeling off, the central locking that would randomly refuse to unlock, the alarm with a mind of its own, and the leaking sunroof. Good looking, quick little car, but terminally unreliable.
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I think the problem with Vauxhall is they are hard to get passionate about I can fall in love with a Ford (Puma) or a FIAT (Coupe) but not a VX. However they sell because they have huge support lots of dealers are cheap look good (VX have a very good looking range) and are ok made.
As a long term Vauxhall owner that sounds fair to me ( apart from the Monaro).
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My dear old Vectra B auto is 10 years old and still going strong. It is a smooth, peaceful car to travel long distances in. Yes it has had a few parts replaced, but nothing disappointing / out of routine so far apart from a cam sensor (2x) and a cam cover gasket.
However I am always reminded of what I am missing when I drive a Focus etc ........! Even a humble 1.6 LX Focus feels 100x more nimble than a Vectra.
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I always had a soft spot for the MK1 Vectra GSi, proper wide-boy car and somewhat wayward but all the better for it.
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Best car they ever made was the late '60s Ventora - pure Detroit styling, big lazy 3.3 litre straight six engine, average 18mpg and front suspension prone to collapse. Apart from that, good performance, very comfortable and looked the part.
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>>> Best car they ever made was the late '60s Ventora <<<
Wot, like this one ~ www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/...8
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Yes, that's the one. Can't be many left now. The low mileage probably reflects the mpg.
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I reckon he's asking far too much green folding stuff for it - the pic of the engine bay looks very sad to me!
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Best car they ever made was the late '60s Ventora -
We tried one out at work, and with 4 people in it the springs compressed so much that under hard acceleration wind-up of the rear springs allowed the nose of the rear axle to hit the underside of the floor!
Due to a quirk in the heater system, at town speeds if you switched on the heater fan then air was sucked into the face vents instead of being blown out of them!
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