Hi.
I'm trying to find out what constitutes an 'equivalent quality' car when your own is written off by another party - entirely their fault. Have been dealing directly with the 3rd party insurance as it was hoped this would make it easier to settle.
The car is an almost 10 year old Rover 400, well maintained with full service history, and receipts to prove recent belt change, new clutch, and new pas pump. It was a rare model (though I know that doesn't make it priceless) with a factory green leather interior and hatch spoiler, and specifically a 5 door diesel.
The problem is we can't find another one the same anywhere, let alone locally. In the local area, there are only half a dozen Rover 400's of the same age and type - but not of the same spec or mileage.
Insurance have offered £1475 for the car (already having raised that from £1100) and claim that is top book price, but I can't see how it can be replaced like for like (or equivalent) for that money. For a start I don't want an older car, and to have a newer car means looking at a Rover 45 - which obviously are higher priced than Rover 400's - though I still haven't found the same spec in a 45.
The latest trick the insurance have now tried is to send a cheque for the value of the car, plus the 2 weeks vehicle hire I'm due. So now I can't cash the cheque for the vehicle hire costs without accepting their valuation of the car! It specifically says in the letter that cashing the cheque is acceptance of their offer.
The accident happened 4 weeks ago now.
On top of that, the other driver also took out the garden wall at the same time, and despite sending an estimate as requested for the cost of repair, that's not been paid out either.
I've just spoken to the Ombudsman helpline for advice, but I've been told that they only deal with disputes between you and your own insurance not somebody elses. She did suggest that I cash the cheque and still dispute it, until I told her what it said in the letter. So then she said didn't have anything else to say. Very poor.
So - what now? Suggestions gratefully accepted!
Thanks.
|
You need to find evidence of the car's value. Keep searching Autotrader online til you come to something close. The leather, spoiler (of no use, either) has no bearing on the market value in a car of that age, the five doors perhaps 10%. Print off and send to the insurance company. Cashing the cheque may not be an acceptance of the offer, but check.
There are 41 x 400 5 dr diesels on AT in the UK - only one is priced at more than your offer! Ten of the eleven 99/00 cars are £1295 or less.
Edited by oldnotbold on 24/04/2009 at 13:35
|
By not dealing with your own insurance company, I think you have very few rights
It sounds like a fair offer, I think you should cash the cheque
MVP
|
"By not dealing with your own insurance company, I think you have very few rights"
Your rights do not change.
|
|
|
|
How much would you settle for? With no knowledge of prices etc, I can't imagine it can be valued at much more than they have offered, and you have to consider whether the additional revenue is worth the additional effort.
|
How much would you settle for? With no knowledge of prices etc I can't imagine it can be valued at much more than they have offered and you have to consider whether the additional revenue is worth the additional effort.
Well, part of the problem is that there are very few Rover 400 5 door diesels available locally. And not being awkward - but it does need to be 5 door diesel - most of which have done more miles. So even if I believed it was a fair price - I can't actually buy another for that money (or as it turns out for more money). So that was why I wanted to know what constituted "equivalent quality".
And what's a fair distance to search?. Especially considering that once paid out, there won't be a car or money from the insurance to pay for travel, let alone the time it takes to find a good car. I know from past experience how many 'mint' or 'immaculate' cars are nothing like that.
|
|
|
|
|
So basically you're saying the spec doesn't differentiate between models. So if you had two cars - both with same mileage, history etc, but one is poverty spec, the other top of the range - there's no difference? I don't believe that to be the case at all. Whilst I know the difference in price wouldn't be the same as the original purchase price difference, there is a difference.
As for a spoiler of being no use - I agree - it doesn't mean it's worthless. Lots of things on cars are of no real use - but that's a different argument!
I've also looked at autotrader for that past few weeks, and the cheap cars are either bottom of the range, or mega-mileage.
I still really need to know what 'equivalent quality' means.
|
"So basically you're saying the spec doesn't differentiate between models. So if you had two cars - both with same mileage, history etc, but one is poverty spec, the other top of the range - there's no difference? "
At ten years old the leather, metallic, alloys etc. have little bearing on the price. The L will be worth not much less than the Ghia or its equivalent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Take the offer - it sounds very reasonable, more than you would have been offered in part exchange and probably as much as you could have got selling privately.
|
|
cash the cheque
|
Take the money
Its a good price for what is a 10 year old car. Extras and spec values get diluted heavily over the depreciation of the car. A fully specced car of that age will only be easier to sell over an equivalent base model, not higher price.
|
I'm beginning to think you lot all work for insurance companies ;-)
|
How did it go again?.....
"Take the money"..... "Open the box"......."Take the money"........."Open the box"
Personally, I'd take the money - no connection with the insurance 'industry' :-)
|
|
|
You should have been clearer if you only want one type of opinion :-)
By any definition this offer is very generous and you should take the cheque. Depending on the extent of the damage you could consider repairing the car with the payout after negotiating ownership from the insurance company.
|
|
|
|
Its a good price for what is a 10 year old car.
I don't think you can generalise like that. It clearly depends upon the car, and it's condition, and history.
I know some people are quite happy when their car is written off and they get to choose a new one - but this one had years left in it yet and was certainly not going to be sold any time soon.
|
>>It clearly depends upon the car, and it's condition, and history.
Too right. To the extent that your current (lamented) motor is probably going to cost the insurance company to dispose of it. Tatty, with 3 months MOT it would be worth a few tenners only. So £1,500 is a very good lump of cash.
It hurts. You have been stuffed. You have all my sympathies. But you are going to have to accept it. At least they were insured so you got £1,500 not £0. Somebody scratched my car last week and stuck a nail in a tyre; all down to me to repair.
|
|
|
I don't think you can generalise like that. It clearly depends upon the car and it's condition and history. I know some people are quite happy when their car is written off and they get to choose a new one - but this one had years left in it yet and was certainly not going to be sold any time soon.
>
Sorry mate you can. You are looking it it as "it my car I know it and how good it is and how well cared for it is and good the spec is"
None of that is worth a bean on a car over 10 years old (unless its very rare or a classic) to others - its "just another car"
Really I know it hurts, but your car just aint that special when it comes to money. No-one is really gona kill themselves to buy a 5 dear 10 year old rover 400 diesel regardless of how good it is.
|
Really I know it hurts but your car just aint that special when it comes to money. No-one is really gona kill themselves to buy a 5 dear 10 year old rover 400 diesel regardless of how good it is.
I take the point, I really do, but I wasn't selling - and all I REALLY wanted was the car repairing, or to be able to go out and buy the exact same one.
|
|
Much as I sympathise, wanting to be able to go out and buy the exact same 10 yr old Rover 400, not exactly a car renowned for longevity or likely to be cherished by many, seems a little unrealistic. £1500 seems like an extremely generous offer to me, I'd take it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oh dear. Old bangers (do not be offended by that) like your car are never worth what you think they should be.
Sadly, the new belt, clutch etc. do not increase the value of the car by anything like what they cost. Not even much more than sixpence. And as for the new pas pump, it merely reinforces the point that there's going to be a new ABS unit required soon - hence why old cars aren't really worth very much.
It sounds like quite a generous offer to me. Notwithstanding the point that your wonderful car has been written off, and you are going to be out of pocket (in some sense, anyway for £1,500 will buy you a lot of car). I sold my T-reg 72k FSH Vectra for £600 last week - poverty spec and petrol.
Don't forget to check with your own insurance company to check if they will load your premium for the accident - and claim for that loss as well - for several years.
If you still have the car, you presumably qualify under the Government scheme, and thus have £3,500 to spend towards a brand new car.
As for the garden wall, ring 'em up; speak to a supervisor and get the cash out of them.
Just remember that had you been dealing through your own insurance company, you'd have been sent a cheque for £1,000 less your £500 excess.
JBIF will be along in a moment to tell you that you DO have a contract with the third party's insurance company, and he will post a link to prove it.
Edited by Mapmaker on 24/04/2009 at 14:21
|
|
if your not going to take the money will you please open the box
|
|
bb- (old) great minds think alike!!
|
|
|
|
|
Take the money, it would be hard to get that privately and its a generous offer for such an old car.
|
stunorthants>> Take the money it would be hard to get that privately and its a generousoffer for such an old car.
That completely misses the point. It is replacement cost, not value for which OP is being recompensed.
However, eBay item 250409804059 is a 5 door turbo diesel with half leather and mega-ugly spoiler and 16" wheels that made £335.07 - 12 months' MOT 4 months' tax.
That's what your car's REALLY worth. I'd grab the money and run. Very, very, very quickly.
|
|
|
|
Sadly the new belt clutch etc. do not increase the value of the car by anything like what they cost.
I know that - but if you were selling 2 otherwise equal cars, if you had recent receipts to prove such work was done for one of them, I suspect you'd charge a premium for it over the other one.
Don't forget to check with your own insurance company to check if they will load your premium for the accident - and claim for that loss as well - for several years.
Well, I'm not sure I need to notify my own insurance (that's not to say that I won't). The car was parked (legally) with nobody in it at the time.
If you still have the car you presumably qualify under the Government scheme and thus have £3 500 to spend towards a brand new car.
It's about 2 months short of the cut-off date unfortunately. :-(
JBIF will be along in a moment to tell you that you DO have a contract with the third party's insurance company and he will post a link to prove it.
Now that will be very useful to see! Not that I expect it to make any difference.
PS. Thanks everyone who has posted - I appreciate the responses even if I don't agree with all the comments!
|
>> JBIF will be along in a moment to tell you that you DO have a contract with the third party's insurance company and he will post a link to prove it. >> >>
Now that will be very useful to see! Not that I expect it to make any difference. >>
The relevant info is in one of HJ's faq [I ain't telling you which one*] and the link is in a number of my previous posts on this forum.
Mapmaker has covered most things, so good luck.
[*Sorry, I am sulking a little, but I have decided not to be too helpful, as some in "management" apparently do not like my style. I know a possible solution to Armitage's problem in CRQ vol 182 but again he too ain't getting any help from me today. I think I'll leave it to Rattle to sort it out for him.]
Edited by jbif on 24/04/2009 at 14:50
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
A very quick search throws up this car for you:
eBay item 220393481483 £995. 1999, new glowplugs, recent reconditioned 'box, 5 new tyres, full tank of fuel and professionally valeted.
I'm sure the remaining £500 will get you the second hand leather interior transferred across from your old car - make sure the ins co doesn't take it away, plus a cambelt change.
Sorted.
|
If you still have the car you presumably qualify under the Government scheme and thus have £3 500 to spend towards a brand new car.
>It's about 2 months short of the cut-off date unfortunately. :-(
Well, wait 2 months...
|
>> If you still have the car you presumably qualify under the Government scheme and thus >> have £3 500 to spend towards a brand new car. >> >It's about 2 months short of the cut-off date unfortunately. :-( Well wait 2 months...
I was under the impression it was a fixed cut-off point. Am I wrong?
|
I was under the impression it was a fixed cut-off point. Am I wrong?
Car has to have been rgistered before 31 July 1999 and have a current MOT test certificate.
The scheme is to be audited by the DVLA and I would be very surprised if they haven't thought to exclude wrtten off cars.
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks - I'll take a look when I get home. (Ebay is blocked at work. Can't even search autotrader).
|
This car is like valuing an antique - it's a rare item, but that doesn't make it's worth tens of thousands. You can only estimate what it would cost you to get something similar.
At £1500 for a 10 year old Rover 400 I'd take the cash. I know someone with an 04 reg Rover diesel, I bet a dealer wouldn't offer him 4 figures in part ex.
|
|
Using Glass's via Vauxhall 'value my car' I couldn't find any Rover 400 worth more than 350 quid. I feel the pain, I was in much the same position 8 years ago when I wrote off my Carlton 3.0 12v CDX estate, manual box. Couldn't find another one for sale anywhere, took the money anyway :-/
|
|
|
|
|
Ask your insurance people to deal with the other drivers insurance. Add the cost of property damage to the claim.
The main task of EVERY insurance company is to settle for the least amount possible so dont feel badly about manking your insurance people earn the excessive amount they charge you. Every day they can put off paying the real value of your claim is money in their pocket.
|
Ask your insurance people to deal with the other drivers insurance. Add the cost of property damage to the claim.
Very funny. VERY bad advice; sorry, suggestion. The property insurance will be on a different insurance to the car insurance. So OP would have TWO sets of excesses to pay/reclaim from the third party.
possible so dont feel badly about manking your insurance people earn the excessive amount they charge you.
Scarcely. The more you claim, the more excesses you pay and the higher your premiums will be next year.
>>Every day they can put off paying the real value of your claimis money in their pocket.
True, but it's not really money out of your pocket at current interest rates, is it now?
|
|
The truly sad part of having insurance is that you are betting against yourself and hoping that you lose,, that you never have to make a claim. Either way you still come up on the short end.
|
Thats the insurance business model. Collect as much as you can from the punters and pay out as little as you can. They may dress it it as much as they can in fancy ribbons, but at the end of the day thats the only way you make money out of insurance of any kind.
|
2 q's:
1: In the offer made, who gets your car?
2: What is the actual damage?
I would ring them up and accept the amount as long as you get to keep the old car - or negotiate a trivial payment for it.
You then have all the trim/spoiler/new bits/etc and the cash to buy a replacement and make sure it can be brought up to spec.
~Changing seats is generally a trivial task.
|
|
I'd take the money
|
|
hmm
Edited by GroovyMucker on 24/04/2009 at 17:24
|
|
|
I'm with the take the money bods...
Interestingly enough this came up in one of the Classic Mags recently where someone who owned a classic had just used "ordinary" car insurance... the value on an "agreed value" basis was about £6k more than he got... expensive mistake... at the end of the day its a fairly common car, they won't look at what you have spent on the car or its spec as unless its very rare, and has been insured on that basis, then as far as they are concerned its just another 45.
I'm not sure that you can have "agreed value" insurance on ordinary car policies, though.
|
|
You need to sort the wall business out - I assume you've told your own insurance company about the incident ? Have you got legal cover on that policy ?
|
If they're happy to pay for the car, they'll be "just" as happy to pay for the wall.
My mother had a similar incident last year when somebody drove into her garage door. Damaged her car and her garage door and the third party's insurance co paid out everything. (Also paid out on my old Audi which had died there some months previously; they gave me £450 and the scrap man gave me £100. IIRC I paid £650/750 for the car and drove it for 2 years.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
