Arrange the following with those at the top being of greatest importance.
These are mine:
1. Value for money
2. Handling/Performance
3. Reliability/Quality
4. Running costs
5. Active safety
6. Passive safety
7. Ride quality
8. Interior space
9. Luxury equipment
10. Aesthetics
.........................................
53. Brand image
.........................................
96. CO2 emissions
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1. Ease of access
2. Ride and internal comfort
Are my main two followed by (in no particular order)
Interior space
Performance/economy balance
Value for money
Equipment level
Safety features
Thereafter and someway below are aesthetics, brand image and CO2 - although this is partly accounted for by the performance/economy balance.
I would not look at a car that was not reliable so that is self selecting before I apply the criteria.
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1. Reliability
2. Economy
3. Comfort/space
4. Build Quality
5. Practicality
6. Torque
7. Clever design
8. Compactness
9. Equipment
10. Ride
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1. Value for money (3)
2. Handling/Performance (7)
3. Reliability/Quality (4)
4. Running costs (5)
5. Active safety (1)
6. Passive safety (2)
7. Ride quality (9)
8. Interior space (8)
9. Luxury equipment (6)
10. Aesthetics (10)
.........................................
53. Brand image (important but not very)
.........................................
96. CO2 emissions (is linked with running costs now due to tax)
My biggest concern though is insurance groups, followed by safety followed by reliability. I also do like a nice dash and seats as you spend a lot of time inside the car.
I would happily drive a modern Kia for example, but I would not want to drive say a Kia Pride for all the of the reasons above.
I would not buy a Golf MK4 because I would be paying a premium price for a none premium product, and I would rather drive a Lada than a BMW 1 series.
I just want something well built, safe, reliable, quick enough for the city, reliable, comfortable for short distances, and a bit of toys to play with in a traffic jam,.
Edited by Rattle on 24/02/2009 at 22:49
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1. Value for money 2. Handling/Performance 3. Reliability/Quality 4. Running costs 5. Active safety 6. Passive safety 7. Ride quality 8. Interior space 9. Luxury equipment 10. Aesthetics ......................................... 53. Brand image ......................................... 96. CO2 emissions
I'd change no 1 to "Performance for money", make no 2 "Petrol not diesel" and move all the rest down one, and cross no. 96 off the list entirely.
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For my car (commuter / station use only) it's basically
1. Price (it's going to get knocked about so I don't want a big investment, and don't want to be worrying too much about it)
2. Comfort and refinement (I spend 3-4 hrs a day in it)
3. Fuel economy
4. Reliability
5. Toys (see comfort and refinement)
For the family wagon it's
1. Safety
2. Space and practicality
3. Fuel economy
4. Reliability
5. Comfort
6. Toys
Couldn't care less about either brand image or CO2 - they don't even make the list.
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1) Galvanised
2) Chain not belt
3) Diesel (without DPF)
4) Hydraulic tappets
5) Easy access filters
6)Easy access auxiliary belt belt (with simple run, no aircon)
7) Easy access heater motor resister pack
8) Easy access light bulbs
9)Wind up windows
10) manual door locks
11) non metallic paint
12) Big load space
13) 79mpg (when trying)
14) Steel wheels
15) full size spare
16) no dealer (special tool) only reset of service lights.
Looking through this list - really these are all joint number one....
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Just sticking to your original list I would have the following priorities:
1. Aesthetics (I wouldn't buy a car I thought was ugly)
2. Reliability/Quality
3. Active safety
4. Passive safety
5. Luxury equipment
6. Running costs
7. Ride quality
8. Interior space
9. Value for money
10. Handling/Performance (Not a boy racer anymore)
.........................................
53. Brand image (Not a brand snob)
.........................................
96. CO2 emissions
Edited by andyfr on 25/02/2009 at 08:56
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Oilrag - I can see where you're coming from with a lot of your points, but really I don't think 2), 4) and 7) have any more than a negligible impact on the TCO over a typical ownership period.
Timing belts can (and do) last to the point now where most will only ever need to be changed once or at most twice during a car's entire useful life. Also timing chains aren't without their problems. They're are known for being the first mechanical thing to go on modern motorcycle engines, and they don't have a perfect reliability record on car engines either.
Solid valve lifters seldom need clearance adjustments. I checked my old Mondeo 1.8TD's (shim lifters) at 120,000 miles for the first time in its life, and all clearances were still within tolerance. And this is an engine, as Clarkson might put it, designed when Ramesses III was still on the throne. And I don't ever recall having to change a heater resistor pack (that's it, I've done it now!)
I find myself nodding sagely at most of your others though. :-)
Cheers
DP
Edited by DP on 25/02/2009 at 09:10
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Equally important:
1) looks (subjective, in my judgement)
2) must be big
3) price preferably< £1,000, might go up to £2,000
4) ease of DIY working
5) robustness
6) classic, or even better, future classic
7) good for 40 years or 500,000 miles
8) plentiful spares
Unimportant;
1) performance
2) economy
3) shinyness
4) CO2 emissions
Definitely not:
1) air conditioning
2) sat nav
3) air bags
4) plastic bumpers
5) plastic engine cover
6) bulbs that can't be changed in 30 seconds
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1/ looks
2/ ride
3/ handling
4/ comfort
5/ equipment
6/ space and ease of access for dog
7/ practicality
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"And I don't ever recall having to change a heater resistor pack"
It was a Maestro Clubman D, DP ;-)
Dash out to do it - but instead I rigged up (non automotive) ballast resisters and wired them up under the bonnet due to the heat
The fan speeds were slightly different - but it did the job
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Access
Comfort
economy (overall cost)
ease of parking/town driving
reliability incl rust etc.
reasonable acceleration and power (0-60<15 secs).
All the rest is trivia.
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Suitability for my needs (ie 4 doors) and no bigger than I need.
Looks (very important)
Relative rarity
Price
Safety
Performance/Driving v's Running costs
Reliabilty (although this has never really affected my choice)
Out of interest I drive a new Mazda 2 which ticked all the boxes for me. 4 Doors, looks superb, still the least common of the Superminis, reasonably priced, highest safety ratings, excellent compromise between performance and costs and Mazda reliabilty is pretty good.
No doubt when I come to change, there will be many more around so it will possibly be welcome to an Alfa MiTo.
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I find one of the biggest problems in buying a car is the dealer. The first car I ever bought with my own money was from a main Nissan dealer who forgot to mention it was a personal import from Cyprus (more fool me for not checking). So one of the top prioirities is can I trust the seller, and can I get it serviced by some one I can trust.
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1. 'Specialness'.
That is all. There are one or two other issues which might be important for whether I can have the car, but that's it for whether I want it.
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all round visability
big mirrors
reliability
torque
practical
comfort
low insurance
economy
quick easy repair
proper automatic
a radio
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Looks
At least six cylinders, preferably in vee formation
Big
Nice soundtrack (see 2nd down) :-)
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Three stages for me:
- Broad suitability: a long-list of what I think is the right shape, size, price band, mechanical type etc.
- Paper analysis: mostly to do with costs and features, such as whether I can have one with climate control but without a sunroof. (I've crossed off Hondas at this point in the past.)
- Suck it and see. An extended test drive is essential - I scrubbed the Mazda 5 from our family wagon list partly because the dealer's idea of a demo was ten minutes with the salesman doing most of the driving. This is when you find out that you can't get the head restraint where you want it, or that the doors vibrate at your favourite cruising speed - or that the radio can't do long wave for TMS.
When I was choosing my present car, a Passat estate was yards ahead after stage 2, while the S60 was an outsider because I didn't want a saloon. I tried both on 200-mile test drives (company car days!) and the Volvo leaped ahead, while the Passat dropped out of the game because I simply didn't like it. I've now had the S60 six years (bought it when I left that job) and I've been very satisfied.
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1. Looks
2. Straight six engine
3. Rear wheel drive
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Looks
Large capacity cross plane crank V8
Rear wheel drive
...
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Clutch Rest
Good Leg Room
MPG
Reliability
Cruise Control
Chain Cam Engine
Not important:
Alloy Wheels
Painted mirrors
Brand
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No, no, no - you're all wrong. What matters is:
1. Reliability
All else is chaff I can't afford!
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1. Comfort/refinement
2. Handling/steering feel
3. Looks
4. Economy/performance balance - which usually means a diesel
5. Practicality - therefore hatch or estate
6. Spare wheel (or at least space saver - definitely no run-flats or cans of gunk!)
7. Decent stereo
8. Local dealer
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(Shamelessly stealing Cliff Pope's format...)
Equally important:
1) Reliability
2) Ease of service / repair
3) Cost of spare parts
4) Comfort & general practicality
5) Safety
6) Plenty of dealers
7) Air con
Unimportant;
1) Economy (unless it's excessive i.e. less than 20mpg)
2) Residuals
Definitely not:
1) Diesel
2) Electric handbrakes, automatic headlights, wipers etc.
3) Climate control
4) Sat nav
5) Bulbs that can't be changed easily and quickly
Completely unimportant:
1) 'Image' - whatever that is
2) CO2 emissions
I am amazed that comparatively few people have rated reliability as Number 1. For me it's absolute top priority, completely non-negotiable. In my work a breakdown can cost me money. All the other priorities are pointless if you're stuck on the hard shoulder...
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Just before you melt completely...why don't you want CC? Have I missed something I shouldn't have?
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I prefer to control it myself. Also there's less to go wrong.
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1) Diesel
2) Cheap - preferably what someone can't be bothered to mend.
3) Toys - as many as possible.
As for image and CO2 emissions - not interested.
PS: What's a dealer???
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I am amazed that comparatively few people have rated reliability as Number 1. For me it's absolute top priority completely non-negotiable. In my work a breakdown can cost me money. All the other priorities are pointless if you're stuck on the hard shoulder...
Reliability is pointless unless you can fit in the car!
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If you avoid the obvious and well publicised (here at least) lemons of the car world, most offerings are surprisingly reliable these days. Such is the general level of reliability that I think it's fair to consider other factors first - certainly fitness for intended purpose.
So, here goes for my priorities:
Suitability for intended job
Safety
Value for money
Efficiency
Scope for main-dealer avoidance (pattern parts, diagnostic software etc). No coded parts.
General knowledge of weaknesses and fixes - implying a reasonable market penetration
Long life (galvanised body essential)
Reliability
Limited obsolescence - some Third World offerings have very short model lives
No obvious "sillies" like scooter wheel spares
There must be others, but my general philosophy is to buy a suitable, efficient, well made and easy to fix vehicle, look after it and keep it a long time.
659.
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