I was contemplating things on the trains back from Liverpool this lunchtime (it is so much easier and cheaper to get a day return from Manchester to Liverpool than drive in and park for an hour's meeting) and pondered the question of interior space.
For argument's sake I want to buy a new or nearly new car which has the following criteria: -
1. Saloon or estate only - no hatchbacks
2. Lounging room for four passengers, with a fifth passenger not necessarily being the poor relation
3. No 'high' cars - so so SUVs, no MPVs, just regular saloons or estates
4. No need for very high spec or particularly fast cars, just something that will cruise comfortably at 80mph with the usual creature comforts
5. As short as possible.
Of all the cars that met these requirements in the last 20 years that I can remember was the Passat of about 1988 (which had acres of rear legroom) and the Peugeot 605 which was very long, but used the space well and was effectively a mobile lounge for all inside. The overall internal space of the Outback is quite poor in comparison with its length and would be interested in what experiences other BR member have had.
PS I do not intend to buy a Merc S-class!
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Agree with you about the late 80s Passat, it was enormous inside. The only modern car I can think of which left such an impression of space on me was the Skoda Superb.
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First car that comes to my mind is a friend's Carina E of 1996 vintage,
One car that is in the news right now is the new Skoda Superb ..... until you get to "criteria no. 5 !, which is the killer due to all the toys and safety equipment that we apparently can't do without nowadays.
Incidentally (sorry - not post related), in the 1970's my ex worked in a london hospital, i was always keen to give her a lift to/from work because one of the top surgeons there owned an Espada, and if i was lucky i would catch a view. I remember it looking sooo cool, and sooooo enormous ! I haven't seen one on the road for many years, but i wonder if it would still look big against today's "family" cars ?
Edited by stan10 on 22/01/2009 at 16:27
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If you drop the 5th person out (!) then the Fabia Estate fits the bill... and the Roomster is just about the best for fitting in maximum interior space in smallest possible length... but its a mini-MPV so falls out on that!
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I think to be more specific I would really like a car which combined the external size of the Mk1 Lexus IS200, but with the internal space of the LS400.
I think the modern safety requirements make cars less roomy now. I have in mind a very roomy VW Jetta.
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The Vectra estate I bought for a friend has mountains of rear legroom. Worth a look if that's a priority, and it's cheap.
Unfortunately it's also about 15 miles long, so it fails your shortness criteria. :(
PS It's a pity you ruled out a hatchback, because the 2001-06 Honda Civic has lots of rear seat space.
Edited by NowWheels on 22/01/2009 at 18:40
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It is interesting that it is now very difficult to buy a short but spacious car, unless you go up in height.
I am not considering changing cars, but just curious. However, I forget one modernish car which did what I wanted (although it was a hatchback) and that was the original Merc A-Class in LWB form. That has a huge amount of passenger space.
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I was looking at this thread earlier and was stumped for suggestions - how could I forget the Mercedes B-class given that I had one before the current Golf estate?
Avoid the truly awful combination of dlesel + CVT, but the B200 petrol might be the nearest you'll get. Lots of room in the back, comfy seats all round and a good square boot. Just don't expect it to be great to drive.
Edited by Avant on 22/01/2009 at 21:36
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the original Merc A-Class in LWB form. That has a huge amount of passenger space.
But surely that's a 'high car' and a hatchback? If you can have a Merc A-class, I would suggest a Citroen Xsara Picasso. Bags of room, not long, but comfy and cheap. Or a Berlingo.
If you're sticking to a saloon or estate, I would nominate a Superb, Mondeo or E-class - although none are what you would call short.
Edited by boxsterboy on 22/01/2009 at 21:56
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>>(it is so much easier and cheaper to get a day return from Manchester to Liverpool
>>than drive in and park for an hour's meeting)
I love the way that because this is a motoring forum you feel the need to make excuses for your choice of public transport...
Anyway, in answer to your question, surely the TARDIS must be the answer.
The A class did certainly have huge amounts of space in the back, but you wouldn't want to take one further than Tescos - ghastly thing to drive on the motorway with its 12" wheels.
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I don't understand why you will consider an estate, but not a hatchback.
Is it to do with boot space? (Saloons usually have bigger boots than their hatchback variants, if the rear seats are in use - so maybe you're needing a boot big enough for the luggage of four (or five) people - is that what it is??)
I don't remember the Jetta being overly roomy - it appeared to sacrifice some back seat room for the enormous boot, as with the Toldeo and Octavia.
I
don't know how far back in time you're prepared to go...
the Montego saloon and estate were roomy, and not very big by today's standards,
but the daddy has to be the Austin/Morris Landcrab.
(The Maxi was even shorter -and had 5 gears, the better for your 80mph cruise- but had a hatchback, so you'd rule it out.)
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Given that a sphere has the largest internal volume with minimal surface area, I'd nominate the BMW Isetta. www.3wheelers.com/bmw.html Useful to remind BMW owners that this little thing rescued them from failure:)
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"I don't remember the Jetta being overly roomy - it appeared to sacrifice some back seat room for the enormous boot"
Because it's a Golf as far back as the rear seat back, but yes, the boot is huge, and makes a great crumple zone when you get shunted, as I did by Ian Holm (actor, luvvie). Full payout from his insurance, and carried on driving it!
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Sorry, I forgot you were looking for something new or nearly new.
Still going back a few years, the only 'low' car that springs to mind as having notably large rear room within a shortish length, was the previous-generation Honda Civic.
Still a hatchback of course.
Did they do a saloon version for Japan, which might be importable?
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The Renault Megane saloon has loads of room in the back and is not too long.
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As I have said - I'm not buying just curious.
Why estate and no hatch - well, lets say I would want a dignified car suitable for carrying senior executives.
But then if I was buying simply for myself to act as Dad's taxi and go out with a couple of friends then anything would do. I suppose the best example is the Merc B-class but I don't do S&M and Avant gave it up a year ago or so.!!
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>>Why estate and no hatch - well, lets say I would want a dignified car suitable for carrying senior executives.
Errrrmmmmm don't you mean saloon???
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Why estate and no hatch - well lets say I would want a dignified car suitable for carrying senior executives.
I'm very puzzled by this. Take a car such as a Mondeo, available as a saloon, hatch or estate. In what way is the hatchback less dignified than either of the other two?
I notice that in the USA, it is now common for the high-and-mighty to be driven in SUVs, which doesn't seem to detract from their sense of dignity. Except for Obama, who is usually driven in "The Beast", a truck-based monster which appears to be akin to an SUV which has been massively stretched and disguised to assume the proportions of a saloon car. (As well as having 20 tons of armour-plating, sharp-shooters in the boot, etc). But when The Beast is unavailable, he travels in a Chevrolet Suburban SUV.
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I remember from before, Espada - as a practising professional you have this interesting but quite difficult compromise between too showy (your clients will think you charge too much) and not showy enough (they will think you're unsuccessful and may go bust).
In the 50s you'd have had a Rover 90; in the 60s a Triumph 2000; in the 70s a Ford Granada; in the 80s a Saab 9000 (from Saab's heyday before GM got to them); in the 90s perhaps an Audi A4 or A6.
So what's the equivalent in the 2000s? I'd have thought your Outback came close, but you find it short in the rear room department.
Skoda Superb as suggested above - or is it too long?
Volvo S60
VW Passat
Possibly a Mercedes C-class? I don't think these have quiote as expensive an image as they used to.
I presume that the Mondeo and Insignia are too long?
Ah - one more perhaps slighly left-field thought - the Toyota Prius has masses of legroom in the back. I'm short so I don't know if headroom is a problem for some.
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What about the very original MK1 Mini?
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I was going to say the Mini too!
Only a few inches longer than the Smart.
Can be driven by a 6'4" man.
Loads of room for Espada's gold in the boot......
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Quite right Rattle, the Mini was a marvel of packaging in its day, as big inside as a Minor 1000 but much smaller externally thanks to Alec Issigonis's radical transverse engine with gearbox in sump and compact (and cheap) Moulton rubber suspension. The 1100, Maxi and Morris 1800 used the same design features in bigger sizes, the 1800 being enormous inside although quite compact. Of course safety legislation hadn't bloated cars as it has more recently. The Mini used every cubic inch of its internal space and didn't even have door trims. The doors were seen as useful containers (hence the slightly tiresome sliding windows). 2CV Citroens, also very spacious for their size, used a different system with split windows whose bottom half hinged up and was retained by a simple rubber grommet and plug. The later, more designerish Dyane used sliding windows a la Mini.
I can also vouch for the size of the Jetta's boot. A son-in-law who is a jazz drummer could get his whole drum kit, anyway most of it, into the boot of his much-loved Mk 1 Jetta.
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