HI
Can anyone help. I have a 2001 Fiat Punto. The battery went flat. I bought a new battery. After a couple of weeks the battery was flat again. I got the alternator checked. The output charge is 14.2 volts. It's had a discharge test on the alternator which comes up as ok.
I was unsure about the alternator having a discharge, and I noticed that after I took the alternator off, and put the battery lead back on again, without the alternator fitted, there was no spark from the battery terminal. But when the alternator is back on there is a good spark from the battery terminal. Could the alternator still be at fault, or could it be something else. I have check the obvious - boot light, interior lights.
I took the battery back and had it replaced under warranty for another new one. Put it on last week. Car has run fine for a week, and tonight the battery is flat again.
|
|
you may have a faulty alternator where the diode pack is faulty is the alternator getting warm with out starting the car!
|
Hi
No the alternator isn't hot without starting the car. It's cold!
|
Sounds like a "parisidic" drain - i.e. a slow but constant use of the battery when the engine is off.
Have you any non-standard electricals? Aftermarket stereo, alarm, lights etc?
Have you checked the obvious - that all switches and stuff is off? Boot lights are favourite - shut the boot and look in from the back and check the light is actually off. Same with interior lights.
James
|
Hi
Yes I've checked all the obvious. THere is no boot light, and all the others go off.
I do have an aftermarket stereo with a double live feed
thanks
|
Have you a automotive multimeter? If so pull the fuse and put the MM in ammeter mode across the fuse terminals. If the reading is more than 100ma (0.1Amps) then thats the cause - ideally it should be < 50ma....!
You could try the others in the car - just make sure you don't check anything over the capacity of the meter (usually 10/20A). Just check the in-car fuses....
James
|
Thanks for that.
Quick update - I disconnected the stereo and ran the car for 10 days, battery went flat. Put a new alternator on, battery is flat again.
Have now purchased a multimeter from Halfords. HOW COMPLICATED??? Am scratching head at the moment trying to work out what to do with it :-)
|
Thanks for all the help so far on this one - Has any one got any suggestions please.
Fiat Punto 2001 Mark 2. Recurring flat batttery, suspected parasitic drain.
Done all the obvious - interior lights, boot light etc.
Had two new batteries
Disconnected the stereo
Replaced the alternator
Battery is still going flat. I bought a multimeter from Halfords.
The only voltage showing is through the hazard warning/indicator/clock fuse. I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, but I've got the needle pointing at 200 on the multimeter, and the reading is 01.6
Can anyone tell me what that means??
thanks again for all the help.
(moved to existing discussion as related)
Edited by Webmaster on 29/12/2008 at 12:43
|
|
You may have tried this, but I have come across a faulty heated rear window switch, which rendered the heater permanently on. Took some finding, though in hindsight the fact that the rear window was never misty was a bit of a give away!
|
Hi
thanks for that idea. Just been on the back seat misting up the window. Definately not the heated rear window.
cheers
|
Bob you need the meter set to 10 amps & connect the red lead to the red battery cable, then you need to be prepared to juggle around the next bit. Connect the black lead to the + terminal of the battery, keeping a connection you need to remove the main red battery cable away from the battery post so the current drain is going through the meter. Avoid getting a momentry electrical break when you remove the main cable as it is possible you have a relay that is sticking & drawing a current but once the connection is lostthe relay may drop out. DO NOT turn ignition on whilst messuring the current draw on the 10 amp setting. Once you are getting a current draw, ( I suspect about 1-1.5 amps) you will need to start removing fuses & relay's one at a time to find the culprit.
there may be a bad earth causing a relay to stick on for the ECU or injection relay.
DO NOT connect the meter across the battery connections + & - whilst the meter is set to amps mode. The unit must only be in a series connection.
I Doc
|
I Doc
Thanks for those instructions. I've just been out and done that and am now very confused. The battery is fully charged. I put the leads on, and the reading I am getting is -0.01
I'm assuming that means there is no drain on the battery. So, why does it keep going flat. I've put two new batteries on.
What on earth can I do?
thanks for all your help
Rob
|
its possible that a relay is sticking & sometimes it releases. If you broke the connection even for a fraction of a second IF a relay was sticking it would drop out & there would be no current drain.
Have you jsut bought the car ? or had any key problems. I just wondered wether someone had tethered a key chip to the ign barrell ( its a known fiddle but on some cars causes a battery drain )
|
Hi
No there was no break in the connection. The only time the reading changed from -0.01 was when I opened the door and the interior light came on. It went to -0.62 then.
I have replaced the ignition key. I took the chip out and put it in a blank new key. There is no chip tethered to the ignition barrel.
Thanks for your help
Bob
|
your on the right track, I would set up meter cables for a current drain test but re-attach main cable & run car then switch off & retry checks.
Even try locking the car if it has central locking to check that all the door motors switch off, its possible a lock is faulty & the C/L isn't shutting down. just leave the bonnet up to check battery readings
|
what I've done now, is turned the car on. Turned on and off everything on the car - lights, heater, wipers, city button etc, run it for a minute or two and turned everything off. Now I've done the test on the battery again. Before it showed a reading of -0.01 now its showing a reading of -0.16
I've pulled out all the fuses one by one, and nothing makes a difference. The drain stays at -0.16
Any ideas??
thanks again
|
|
places to check, try unplugging or check for warmth, rear & front wiper motors, boot solonoid & central locking solonoids. ECU & ignition coils. these are possible causes of current drain that would be enough to flatten battery. I would of expected more than .01 so it sounds like you now have a proper connection. You may find the residual will drop after 20 mins
|
I have unplugged the front and wear wiper motor - no change and cant feel any heat from either.
We had the steering column changed a while ago because the electric steering failed. Although this problem of flat batterys was going on before the steering went. But I have noticed on a test just now, that when unplugging the main two power leads to the ECU for the electric steering, the multimeter reading goes down from 0.16 to 0.01
Could this be the problem?
|
admittidy its not much help but out of interest the .16 is 160ma/hours. So thats 4 amps per day - and thusly 10days would kill a 40a/h battery.
Good efforts so far. let us know how you get on.
James
|
Thanks for that James. The battery is indeed going flat after about 10 days, so that's useful confirmation that I'm on the right track. :-)
cheers
Bob
|
Just spoken to a helpful chap at the Fiat main dealers. He says he's not surprised there is a discharge from the electric steering and it should go down within 10 minutes or so. He suggests cleaning all the earths, so will give that a go tomorrow and see if the discharge does go down after 10 mins.
All good fun!!
|
sorry Bob, had to pop out, sounds like your on the right track. Do check the earths properly & as i said earlier do check readings 10-20 mins later.
ya doing well.
|
Well, I've had a full day testing on the car. The drain didnt get any less, even after 20 minutes.
I cleaned up all the earths thoroughly.
I have checked all the fuses and relays. The only thing that makes a difference is when I pull out the blue 60 amp fuse in the engine compartment. I have followed this red and white wire back through the system and it leads back to the steering ecu. I have had advice from the Fiat main dealer and a couple of other specialists in the area who seem to think it could be an open circuit in the steering ECU.
What do you think? Thanks for all your help
|
"THere is no boot light"
Are you sure Bob? Our 2002 Mk2 Active has one.
Regards
Edited by oilrag on 30/12/2008 at 18:38
|
Hi
Yes absolutely certain. No bootlight :-)
|
|
How long does the car have to be standing for (how many days), for the battery to go flat enough not to start the car?
|
|
About 10days, there is a 0.16 draw showing on the multimeter
|
I'd expect a boot light to be about 0.5 amps.
|
There is no bootlight.
The problem is at the electric steering ecu
cheers
|
Bob, Given its age, why not just fit a battery isolation switch that you can use if you are leaving it unused for more than a week?
Our Puntos have no issues with batteries being disconnected (for maintenance) even the radio code is retained.
tinyurl.com/824syl
I used one of these to good effect on a 2CV once and I think Halfords sell them.
|
Interesting thread,I had a similar problem,except my car would decide to barely turn over even after a 100 mile drive.Charging was fine,it turned out to be the starter.Still have a problem with an overnight drain,am currently(no pun intended) disconnecting the (new)battery overnight.Have tracked it down to a particular fuse covering int.lights,no,there is no boot
/g/box light on,radio,clock and c/locking,so the comments re that are interesting.Also I don't think I've kept power on to ensure relay operation during test.If mine took 10 days to go down I would be ecstatic!
|
Thank you everyone for your thoughts so far.
I have spoken to the company who supplied me with a new steering column about 2 months ago. They will send me another one under warrantee so that I can replace it and see if there is any difference. Will keep you posted.
Thanks again everyone.
|
My son had a problem on his P reg Corsa where the (new) battery drained after standing for 4 or 5 days.
With tips from the backroom, we traced it to the replacement radio that we had fitted. Because the radio isolator switch had failed in the ignition assembly on the steering column, we wired the radio so that it was constantly supplied with power - we didn't realise that the radio front caused such a significant drain on the battery. The problem was solved by ensuring that the removable radio front panel was detached at the end of the day.
|
About 10days, there is a 0.16 draw showing on the multimeter
So it takes ten days for the battery to flatten to the point where it won't turn the car over. I personally don't think that that is too bad. Okay it is not perfect and it is probably draining via that ecu, but I think I could live with a car that was demonstrating this problem.
If it is going to cost you money to fix it properly then I don't think that I would bother shelling cash out to do that on a seven year old car. The easiest thing to do would be to make sure that you start it every week and run it for ten minutes, or as it has already been suggested, just fit an isolator switch.
|
Hi
Thanks for your thoughts. I need to get to the bottom of what's going on, becuase the steering failed when my wife was in a very dangerous position in the road, she could easily have had a very nasty accident. I can't just leave it in case this has anything to do with the reason the steering failed, and it could go again.
I know there are shortcuts, and it's not a brand new car, but I can't replace my mrs if anything happens to her.
Happy New Year
Rob
|
Hi everyone.
I'm pleased to say the problem is as I thought, the electric steering ECU had an open circuit and wasnt shutting down fully, and it was drawing the 16ma which was flattening the battery. Had it replaced under warantee, they said it was an unusual problem, but there we are.
Problem diagnosed and dealt with. Car back on the road :-)
Particular thanks to injectiondoc for the practical help and instruction.
BIG BAD BOB
|
|
Glad to hear you got it sorted and many thanks for reporting back to the Backroom - I wish everyone would do it!
|
|
Good news. I think that should read 160ma not 16ma thou!
|
|
Thanks for the update & well done in the diagnosis, only those who do it know how challenging it is. Especially in the cold weather. You should be an expert now in how to use a multi-meter. Bet you could show the odd garage a thing or two with one of those!
|
|
Your steering would not "fail";it would get very,very heavy but would still work.
|
Hi Guys, im new to the forum and not that much of a mechanical whizz so i might require some "lamens terms" but oh well
Ive had the exact same problem, i recently passed my test and have a 2001 mk2 1.2 16v punto sporting, the battery would consistantly flatten, even after charging all night with the battery charger, after a full charge it would fire up, but the second you turn the ignition off and try again it was flat
ive now replaced the battery and all seems to be good, but i still have to give it a tiny bit of revs in order for the engine to fire up, my power steering has failed a few times, but worked the next time i turn the engine off and on,
now the injection warning light has come on, and after reading about possible ECU problems from this i am starting to think all these things are linked
Bob, how did you fix your problem again? something about an ECU? how much did it cost as i might have to do the same.
Thanks, Matt
|
