My newly bought 106 diesel was having trouble starting from cold so after looking on this site and talking to the vendor of the car, I decided to replace the Glow Plugs. (Vendor has offer to pay for Glow Plugs and is offering a full refund of the car if they don't solve the problem- top guy!!).
I have replaced three of the plugs no problem but the last one seems to have sheared its "grip" nut. I can attached the correct sized socket and it turns the nut forever and a day but the nut is just turning on the central pin (the pin that the wires connect to)
Thus the Plug is not coming out!!!
Any suggestions- other than the non starting hopefully to be solved with new glow plugs it a great little car and I'm loathed to return it.
Just another point- I know a couple of people elsewhere on this site have suggested you can just run on three plugs but typically this plug is the nearest to the battery and the top part of the glow plug (where the cables slip on) also shear away with the holding nut so I cannot even re-attach the cables to run one old plug with the three new ones!!!
Is there tool someone can suggest that will grip the central spinal rather than the nut?
HELP!!
Still thinking back to front - re-edited it to make sense
Edited by Pugugly on 07/12/2008 at 21:15
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Do you mean the small nut the holds the wire on? If so, my Dad had this trouble with his AX diesel. I think he just filed the nut off - either that or he cut the plug off behind the wire, then filed the back off till it would come apart. If you mean the big nut and the plug is turning in the head, then the head is scrap and you should take it right back...
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Hi RichardW,
It is the big nut but its not turning in the head- the head still has the Plugs main screw body held.
What has happened is that the nut that forms the basis of the main grip to screw the plugs in and out has sheared from the main body of the plug.
I've been working on this all afternoon and in a further development the entire central spindle has now come away and all that is left is the lower half of the plug rusted into the block with about 2mm of the main thread showing.
Is there any technique anyone knows that I can use to get a grip on the remaining part of the plug to unscrew it. I have given up for tonight and left it soaking in lubricant hoping this will soften its grip!!
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I'll assume that the body of the glow plug has sheared (10 mm AF hex).
You have two choices - as it's an old car, I wouldn't discount the simpler solution (1).
1. Leave the old sheared plug in place and remove the wiring to it - the tag from the controller will have to be "moved up" a plug. This engine will start pretty well on 3 plugs - a bit rough and smoky to start with but it always goes. If you leave it like this, make sure you have 3 good Beru plugs - it won't go on 2.
2. Check that the plugs you took out were Beru type GN 912. These have stainless steel bodies and don't usually jam really tight and so might come out. After much releasing fluid (not water dispersant), break off the upper portion of the plug, gouge out the magnesium oxide filling and ballast coil and hammer in a Torx bit of the right size to be a really tight fit. Use a "T" handle wrench, go carefully and pray.
If the plugs you took out were not Beru, I would definitely choose option 1.
659.
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Hi 659,
I was hoping you'd respond- you seem to be the guru on here!!!
The Plugs I removed are two Champion ones and one with no markings but they are all stainless steel (Does Beru make plugs for third parties?)
I'm going to consult with the seller of the car and with a view to your option 2- I can't see any other option.
Thanks
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****Update*****
I chickened out of doing any work myself and called the RAC (and had to pay for home callout)
The RAC Technician suggested either getting it into a garage or using an Easyout tool.
I have done neither (can't afford the garage and don't want to damage the engine by doing the work myself).
He also spotted a small hairline crack in the cylinder head next to the jammed plug suggesting that a previous owner may have cross threaded the plug and its expanded in the hole or has used too much torque when screwing it in.
I have asked the vendor to take back the car (as he offered to do if the glow plug replacement did not work)
He has refused to take the car back "as it was me who broke the glow plug in situ". I don't know where I stand on this as it was his instruction for me to change the Glow Plugs in order to prevent me bringing the car back in the first place!!!
In addition as this car was bought on a certain auction site, he is claiming to be a private seller and therefore does not have to provide a warranty.
However looking at his auction history- tell me what private seller, sells a car nearly everyday since November as he has?!!??
I'm sure if he is a private seller offering no warranty then the inland revenue might be interested in his activities??
Anyway lesson learned and this applies to anyone buying a used car......
If your car goes wrong straight after purchase take it back for a refund- no ifs or buts or I'll repair it for you or "just stick some new plugs in yourself its easy"
I'm now going to talk to citizens advice to see where I stand. Worse case- at least the car starts and runs on three plugs although its putting a strain on the battery for each cold start and it will also strain the starter motor in the future.
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Hi,
Sounds a bit of a shark to me. Report to Ebay if you think he's running it as a business, talk to the local council (trading from home?) and finally talk to the Inland Revenue. You could ask him first if he would like to take back the car before you do these things, hint hint.
Good luck with getting it sorted out.
Steve.
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you don't say what sort of deal this was. If it is pure banger teritory - you get what you pay for, you won't get anywhere in court- and may risk paying fees for both sides.
Old diesels are a PITA ( and many new ones- I know) so go for a simple petrol car next time.
You may get a second hand head from somehwere, but all diesels heads carck sooner or later.
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I'm not going to comment on the deal or the seller - that's your territory but obviously "caveat emptor" applies.
It's fair to assume this vehicle is being sold for a low price in automotive terms. I would regard my "Fix 1" proposal to be entirely appropriate in this instance. If everything else is right, you won't have a problem starting it.
The TUD5 and its XUD stablemate are the best "old" (IDI) diesels on the market. Given fair maintenance, they will do huge mileages without engine trouble. If fitted with a Bosch fuel system they will do this with no expensive peripheral failures.
659.
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Thanks 659,
I have to admit that the TUD5 in this 106 runs like a dream apparently on diesel fumes as the needle never moves (Unless the fuel gauge is stuck!!!)
Many reviews have stated that the Diesel 106 is noisy, non responsive and rough at higher speeds- I have to say that it is not that much worse than my girlfriends 1.7 '02 astra.
With regards to the car dealer I have to admit we have come to a fair compromise- He will either accept a return on the car less £200 for repairs OR we keep the car and accept a £200 refund. This, I believe is a very generous offer considering the legal mess I would have got myself into trying to claim a refund.
As per 659's suggestion I will probably run the car on three Glow plugs and then get the Cylinder head changed (for the small crack) when I have enough money to do the timing belt (and get the water pump and gasket done at the same time). I'll just keep an eye on the small crack. (its located on the mount for the stuck glow plug, so as long as it doesn't increase it should do no harm).
Based on the car having cost £595, what are anyone's thoughts about the costs involved in swapping the cylinder head? I have seen good quality pressure tested and cleaned re-con head for £175- is it possible to get one cheaper from a yard? Due to the quality of the rest of the car I'd be willing to spend up to £400 inc parts & Labour (obviously £200 from the dealer), is this a realistic price to get the job done?
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If you really can find a good second hand head as a loose item (the good ones are usually on running engines) then fit it at your convenience, changing the belt, idlers and water pump at the same time.
The term "frying pans and fires" often applies to second hand cylinder heads - if yours does your job on 3 glowplugs and has no leaks, I would leave it on the engine.
659.
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If there is enough thread protruding to get at, weld another nut onto it, assuming its steel, then give it a good soaking with oil, this will give you a good grip and the expansion and contraction from the heat will help loosen it. I have shifted a number of broken bolts/studs this way.
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In the case of the TUD5 engine, if the hex shears off the glowplug the remaining part of the plug body is practically flush with the cylinder head - hence the Torx bit method.
659.
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Hi Peter.N
Thanks for the suggestion- indeed as 659FBE states the plug is virtually flush with the cylinder head mounting (about 2mm left protruding) so not much left to weld to.
I don't have access to a welding tool anyway but thanks for the suggestion as I'm probably going to leave it in for now (Engine starts well on three plug - just a bit lumpy until the forth cylinder sorts itself out), but its another suggestion I can make when it comes to a mate with a workshop (and more engine knowledge) changing the cam belt and I might have another go of removing the plug then.
Just like to say this is a fantastic site even for a total novice to car maintanance like me!!
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