I've just been browsing through the back room archives and decided to bring this topic back up as I'm sure someone can help me. Although I am very impressed at how smooth and quiet my Vauxhall Omega is, I've noticed that there appears to be a considerable amount of tyre generated noise. This is obviously more noticeable on certian surfaces, and manifests itself as a rumbling "boxy" sound. My car currently has a pair of Pirelli P6000's on the rear and a dunlop and michelin as the front tyres (came with the car). I've also noticed a slight small bulge in the side wall (outside) of the rear tyres. Does anyone have any ideas on this, and should I replace the tyres? If so what are the recommendations for the lowest noise, they are 195/60/15's as far as I remember. I seem to have read that the p6000's are generally very quiet.
Regards
Simon
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Simon,
As a general rule the quieter tyres tend to be made from the "softer" compounds and the louder ones from the "harder" compounds. The drawback is that the softer compounds will wear quicker than the harder ones.
I've used various branded tyres on my 535 (235/45ZR17 all round) and IMO Goodyear F1 offer a great compromise but are quite expensive. Michelin Primacy's were also very good too but again quite expensive. I tried Avon ZZ1's, which are mid-price but hated the ride/noise and the handling wasn't that great either. There's not too much choice pricewise in this size, however I recall you have a 2.0 Omega - so your running 225/55VR16 91V rated?? There maybe more choice in this size/rating.
My friend's bought 4 BF Goodrich "Profilers" for his 3.0 Omega in 205/65VR15 at about £58 a corner around 2 months ago and seems very pleased with the ride/noise/handling compromise and the wear rating is quite high too.
HTH
Chad.R
Not all BMW owners are bad drivers - just the majority.
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Sorry - should have read your post more carefully; your running 195/60/15's - in this size the choice is massive.
Have a look at
www.tyres-online.co.uk
for tyre tests or for advice
www.micheldever.co.uk and give them a ring I'm sure they'll be happy to recommend a "quiet" tyre.
Chad.R
Not all BMW owners are bad drivers - just the majority.
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What is the state of your floor insulation/sound proofing?
Could be that some carefully cut underlay under the carpets would cut down on the noise?
DVD.
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isn't tyre "noise" as much vibration through the car as actual noise ? If so, I'm not sure how much insulation would help.
M.
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I don't like the sound of the small bulge in the side wall of the rear tyres you refer to. Anything other than the regular spread of the tyre sidewall due to the tyre profile should be investigated immediately. Virtual diagnosis is difficult but it sounds like both your rear tyres may have a defect which may cause a blow-out at any time. I reccommend you drive s-l-o-w-l-y to a reputable tyre specialist immediately to have this checked out. It is also not recommended to mix brands or tread patterns as you state on the front of your car. Whilst not illegal as far as I know I'm not sure what your insurance company would say if you were to have an accident.
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Following the recent post the alarm bells rang and I went out to the car park to have a closer look. It seems the slight "bulging" I mentioned and noticed before isn't there anymore, at least I can't notice it since I had the wheels rebalanced. We are talking very slight though, but I will keep a constant look now and see if I notice it again.
As for the tyres themselves, the front tyres do have the same tread pattern although they are different manufacturers. The rear tyres are both P6000 protac, but what's interesting is that the direction of the grooves (outside) seem to be different on both sides of the car. Is this wrong? I wouldn't have thought they would be fitted on the wrong way, but it did appear slightly odd that the outside tread points in opposite directions for each side of the car. Is there an easy way to check this?
I've checked the pressures which are 32 psi all round, the tyres by the way are 195/65/15 size. I dont fancy the expense of renewing all 4 tyres but if it would make a significant reduction in noise then maybe its worth it. As for the floor insulation I have the standard factory carpeting and omega velour floor mats front and rear. Perhaps a couple of inches of Axminster wouldnt go a miss? :-)
Thanks everyone for your comments, I'll visit my tyre dealer as soon as possible and get everything checked out.
Simon
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Simon,
Regarding checking the "direction" of your rear tyres - all directionally treaded tyres come with a "rotation ->" type marking on the sidewall indicating, believe it or not, the direction that the tyre should rotate in, so you should be able to check this quite easily.
Chad.R
Not all BMW owners are bad drivers - just the majority.
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Hi
i would like to uphold chads views
Mixing tyres is silly you should have two the same at the front and the same at the back otherwise its like mixing diesel with petrol it dont work,
James stephenson
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sorry i meant Godfrey H's views
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Mixing tyres is silly you should have two the same at the front and the same at the back otherwise its like mixing diesel with petrol it dont work,
Are you refering to the same brand front, same brand rear, or mixing cross ply with radials. If it's the latter, then yes - its a no no. If its the former, then providing they are all radials, then there shouldn't be a problem if each tyre on each of the 4 corners are all different manufactuers.
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DD,
Sorry I'm with GH on this one. I hate to see a car with 3 or 4 different makes/patterns...... and having two different ones on the front is not good at all.
Look at any tyre tests and see the different ways alternative makes handle, particularly in the wet. I really wouldn't want to have a top wet grip tyre on one side and a rubbish budget on the other in a marginal braking incident.
My Xantia has different pairs of Michelins front and rear, not ideal but the older pattern on the rear has been discontinued. There is a huge difference in wet road grip such that swapping the pairs from front to rear will seriously change the handling balance. Put the best ones on one side and wet braking would be lethal.
David W
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DD, Sorry I'm with GH on this one. I hate to see a car with 3 or 4 different makes/patterns...... and having two different ones on the front is not good at all.
It depends on what money you have available. I know lack of money shouldn't compomise safety, but if you're running an old banger on a shoestring, and lets say for arguements sake its not going to break the sound barrier, then personally I don't think it matters as long as each corner has got more than the legal thread requirement. Friend of mine always buys his tyres from the scrapyard and has so far had no probs. In fact the car is only kept on the road because of his local scrapyard!!
If on the other hand you have a decent car, then obviously you can afford the rubber.
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DD,
Your comments are reasonable and do reflect real life tyre fittments I see. However my comments reflect advice as given to customers that may save damage/life one day.
Losing control at 25mph in a wet street can be hazadous. If someone is running a car on a budget then it is likely to take sensible sized tyres, they should be available new in a reasonable brand at about £25-£35 a corner...not a fortune.
Like everything in life though you have to make your own choices.
David W
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I've just had a close inspection, the rear tyres are Pirelli Powergy P6000 195/65 R15 91H Radials. There is no indication of rotation direction or outside/inside on these, but it seems that the tread patterns are as follows...
LEFT rear (outside) \_/||/--
RIGHT rear _/||/-\ (outside)
Hope my wonderful drawings make sense!
So as you see the outside tread grooves seem to point in opposite directions... which I found odd.
The front tyres are :
LEFT (passenger side) - Michelin Energy 195/65 R15 91H - XH1 Radial XSE
RIGHT (drivers side) - Dunlop 195/65 R15 91H SP Sport 200E Radial
Tread patterns on both fronts are the same, just different makes. Front tyres have rotation indications which are correct (unless I drive in reverse!)
Regards
Simon
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I run a Rover 820 Vitesse Sport. Unfortunately Rover 800s are very sensitive to tyre noise if the wrong tyre choice is made. I've recently changed to Goodyear Eagle F1s (all four) and am very impressed with this tyre all round. It's quiet, comfortable and has phenomenal grip in the wet (something this powerful front driver desperately needs). They're wearing a tad quicker than my previous tyres at around 1mm per 4000 miles on the front, but this is a price well worth paying for the wet performance (the ABS threshold in the wet is superb).
A car always performs best when all four tyres are the same and in good order. Technically you can have four different tyres at each corner as long as they are all radials. I rotated my tyres so I could replace them all at once.
I disagree with the comment about the price of F1s - I paid £105 per 215/45ZR17 tyre.
Another very good tyre is the Dunlop Sport SP9000. The only slight niggle with the F1 is that steering isn't quite as pin sharp as it was, though this is unlikely to affect you in your size. I intend to try the SP9000s next as they should be slightly better in this area. The best price I could get on SP9000s was £125 each.
If you're in the Midlands or around Manchester I can let you know where to find these prices if you email me.
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I disagree with the comment about the price of F1s - I paid £105 per 215/45ZR17 tyre.
Cyd,
I bought my set of F1's about 3 years ago and paid about £160 per tyre and that was one of the cheapest quotes! I expect prices may have been a bit higher then. I'm on Michelin Primacy's now and they seem to offer better ride/noise quality but the handling isn't as good.
It must be middle-age creeping up on me, but with my 2 daughters in the back my driving style tends to be far more "restrained" so grip levels seems fine :-)
Chad.R
Not all BMW owners are bad drivers - just the majority.
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On my last-but-one Cavalier, I replaced the noisy Pirelli P600s with Yokohama A520s. Not only were they noticeably quieter, the wet grip was vastly improved and, best of all, they were £20 a tyre cheaper.
As for mixing tyres across an axle, the reason this isn't a good idea is that you can get differental grip from one side to another. Although the tread pattern may look the same, the compund the tyre is made from may be different. In extreme cases, the car car veer to the side with the most grip. If you have to have different makes, then I'd suggest putting them on the rear rather than the front.
Andy
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Are your noisy tyres worn evenly across the tread? I had very excessive noise from the Michelin XH1 fitted on my Astra but this co-incided with a long spell using full load pressures (as recommended by Vauxhall) during towing duty. This has the effect of wearing the front tyres in the centre because towing reduces the weight on the front tyres, not increase it. Since then I have kept the replacement Michelin XH1 at normal pressure on the front, even when towing. This has led to even tyre wear and much less noise.
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Also - Michelin XH1 are not directional, just assymetrical. They have to be fitted correctly to the rim but can be used on either side of the car.
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