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I saw a morris ital this morning while l was out driving.this got me thinking that next week my son will be six. i remember when i was that age BL was a mass producer of cars in the 70's and looking back at them imho they were all a load of rubbish allegro,princess marina,TR 7 the only one i would duff my cap to would be the 3.5 v8 sd1 not cause of the car but the fine engine.my dad back then had a mk1 cortina which to me wasnt a bad car neither was the escort and vauxhall never made a car as bad as BL so my question is what car maker today will be looked back at in 30yrs time as turning out carp like BL did.
Edited by Pugugly on 21/05/2008 at 18:41
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Might be interesting to speculate just how many manufacturers will be here in 30 years time. I wouldn?t say BL designs were bad when first released (Marina / Allegro aside), just shoddily made & in production for far too long with little R&D investment, but bailed out by government money. I'm not sure any current manufacturer is that poor although Fiat might be a candidate for not screwing the car together very well. I did read an article that the new Corsa was very well screwed together but this similarly platformed Punto was not.
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I remember driving my x-father-in-law's Morris Ital on several occasions, far and away the worst thing I have ever driven. Horrific on motorways, couldn't keep it straight and true and needed new undies every time I hit the brakes.
Up until fairly recently Polonez were still churning out their vile product. When they were designing those things they must have lined up all the contemporary competition and taken the worst bits from each of them.
And be careful what you say about the Princess, shadyarea. Classic.
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With a bit of luck automobiles as we know them will have contracted into a specialist area with a lot of small manufacturers making cars partly by hand and buying in industrially produced power units, gearboxes, brake systems etc., perhaps by then also made by small outfits but using advanced production methods.
This will mean that some cars will be exceptionally good and others will be lamentable.
Not much change there then.
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Polonez
Just had a flash back to 1983 defended a knicker thief who drove one of these in a lurid purple colour (the car that is) I sordid little man in a sordid little car - I feel a name and shame coming on.
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Funny that PU. A minicabbing colleague in the 70s wasn't a little man at all but a former Rhodesian policeman known in the firm as Dirty Jim. He bulged out of his car, an airforce blue Moskvitch, an ugly little motor with few virtues other than cheapness and four doors. Prudent woman punters often declined his services, anyway once they had sampled them, and he was always touchingly eager to carry one of the barmy regular punters, a middle-aged lady of indescribable scent only about half of which came out of a bottle. This was handy as no one else really liked taking her.
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tata to all that ... but dont qoute me on it
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"Just had a flash back to 1983 defended a knicker thief"
Is a knicker thief someone who steals only half the knickers?
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I remember a neighbour across the road had a polonez told me FSO ment For Spares Only when ever it was damp and misty the thing would not start no matter how many cans of WD40 he sprayed at it just would not fire.And we always knew when he was going out the starting motor sounded like it was stirring a bucket of bolts and when it did start he sat there for about 10 seconds holding it on the red line
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Returning to the Morris Ital theme, I found myself sniggering at this advert from the 1980s: tinyurl.com/5wvzld
It was the way the owner slammed the door shut the second the car was back inside the garage that told the whole story. I mean, looking at his other car, left outside in the driveway: did Luigi win the Ital on that week's Spot the Ball? Perhaps it was the first time he'd taken it for a drive in daylight...
Incredibly amateur "speeded up" filming, reminded me of an episode of Joe 90 or Thunderbirds.
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Nearly forgot the Allegro! tinyurl.com/6lq8xr
Priceless 1973 TV ad with Arfur from East Enders managing to thrash the car round a quarry - despite the Quartic steering wheel! - with a totally unruffled (and unbelted!) rear passenger. Now if it'd been Clarkson at the wheel with that car in that quarry....
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I have just watched all the BL adverts they are painfull but have put a smile on my face if adverts was made like that today nobody would sell anything
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I have just watched all the BL adverts
The Allegro one contained what must be an early example of 'knocking copy'.
'Cheaper than the equivalent Ford Escort...' says the narrator.
The All-aggro was probably not quite as bad as painted, but I'd still rather pay a few extra quid for a Dagenham dustbin.
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Mrs P had a 1300 Escort MK2 when we were er....considering a merger. This was a pretty good car, built solidly, it had delightful steering and handling and gear-change that Ford can barely get close to these days. This box could be changed up and down without touching the clutch, was as precise as rifle bolt. Mundane and ill-equipped they may have been but light years ahead of the equivalent BL product.
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Mrs P had a 1300 Escort MK2 when we were er....considering a merger. This was a pretty good car built solidly
Some rose tinted memories there PU? I had a 1976 Mk2 1.3L and it was a heap of junk. I spent most weekends trying to keep it roadworthy. It appeared to be made cardboard, rusted chronically, refused to start whenever it rained and the interior was falling to pieces. All this in a 5 year old car. My regular maintenance brought me into intimate contact with a world of dreadful quality electrical connectors, underdimensioned wiring and fasteners that were simply not fit for purpose (e.g. the bolts holding the alternator in place fell out). In despair I swapped it for a 1 year older VW Passat. This was in a different universe in terms of build quality and never once let me down in 3 years of ownership.
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That made my evening Bilboman! Especially the mad nutter Ital driver seriously tailgating the Merc W123.
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PU is spot on about the Escort gear change - never been bettered.
As to the rest of the car, at the time we used to say: 'Bits of tin and bits of board, go together to make a Ford.'
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What was the headline in the Local paper?Was it"Knicker Nicker Nicked"or "Pantie Pincher Pinched"?
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I don't think that cars of today are really comparable with the rubbish produced by BL and the like of 30 years ago. But I do think there are many 'pointless' brands (we can't call them manufacturers now), that I feel might well have disappeared in 30 years time.
I don't for instance envisage GM ever managing to make Saab work - they've had long enough, and look how quickly Audi and Volvo got turned around. Frankly I would be surprised if Saab are still here in 30 years. I also wonder about Jaguar (next five years will be critical imo).
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Wasn't it Prof. Garel Rhys who said that by 2020 there will be only 6 motor manufacturers left in the world - plus Morgan.
I'd imagine that the ones to get swallowed up first, and eventually closed, will be those whose cars there is little compelling reason to buy - Perodua, Proton, and sadly I think also Saab. I don't think Kia and Hyundai will both survive - there's precious little already between Picanto / i10, and Ceed / i30. But one of them probably will.
Edited by Avant on 22/05/2008 at 00:08
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Oh, and Daihatsu is another one to go - I can't think of anything they make which other Japanese companies can't do better. Maybe also Suzuki: the Swift is a lovely little car but they don't sell well, over here at any rate.
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> plus Morgan
The interesting thought is what changes will Morgan make? In the last 30 years they have changed to rack & pinion steering, telescopic dampers and 5 speed gearboxes. Sadly they have lost the Buick inspired Rover V8.
If legislation allows I could see a revival in kit cars by individuals who do not want to drive the small/medium/large version of the clone car to their clone highstreet!
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Wasn't it Prof. Garel Rhys who said that by 2020 there will be only 6 motor manufacturers left in the world
His "world" probably did not imagine the impact of India and China. Often commentators, pundits, and academics forget that the world is much more than the UK.
In 30 years time, the car makers who will be around will be the successful manufacturers who have invested in and/or moved their production to China and India.
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Oh, ay up. Here we go BL bashing.
Were BL cars bad or just badly made? - I think theres a distinction.
Granted the Marina/Ital were old hat when they were introduced but the Allegroand other front wheel drive cars were quite advanced.
The Mini - revolutionary - nuff said.
The 1100/1300 - Crisp design, well packaged and rode/handled well.Sold a million or more.
The 1800/2200 - Massive cars inside, front wheel drive - very rigid solid cars.
The Maxi - a hatchback before the Golf (behinde the R16 admittedly) and loads of room/great packaging. Double bed etc.
The Allegro - Nippy, economical, roomy+comfy for its size.
The Princess - Well a Rolls Royce of a car. If it was good enough for Terry Medford, its good enough for me.
Dont look back on 70's cars and say they were rubbish. Its like saying "wasnt the abacus rubbish when you've got a dual core processor"
Things move on.
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Here Here Davidh!
But you forgot the Big Triumph /Rover range (2000*).
In my opinion a '70's Rover would be far preferable to the later '90's early 00's apologies of motorised transport, and the Triumphs should never have been phased out, but "developed", what a car they would have been by now!!
As for the original question, I have to go along with the afore mentioned thought that there will only be half a dozen "car assemblers" in the world, - but no two cars will be the same, because component manufacturers will be offering "buy one get one free" deals and the "assemblers" will shop around, mix and match and buy the cheapest parts available at the time.
In fact, I imagine them to be vehicles very similar to the ones Johnny Cash sang about in "I got it one piece at a time".
Billy
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I also agree with David, the Princess especially was very underated and far better than the Cortina it competed with, all it lacked was fifth gear (and build quality - which was really the achilies heel of all the BL range...).
Back to the Ital for a second, I never had any problems with it "wandering" on motorwyays, and it was a far better and cheaper tow car than the 1.6 fords everyone else was using at the time (1.7HL), but it was a horrendously outdated design....
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Incidentally are we taking who will be the worst car maker based on build quality or design? As said BL had some really good designs but awful build, whereas the Fords and Vauxhalls of the time were 50s engineering but with decent (for the time!) build quality...
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My dad had a 1978 Princess 2 2.0HL when we were kids, and it still remains by far the most comfortable, spacious, and smoothest riding car I remember him ever owning. Reliable too. I was talking to him about it the other day, and in the 3 years he had it, it only needed the rad cooling fan motor replacing. That Hydragas ride was brilliant - I remember seeing a few reviews of the time saying it got close to a Citroen CX in terms of bump absorption.
The Maxi 1750 was also a good, useful workhorse, and again ours was very reliable. Seem to remember it went well too, and had a 5 speed 'box! A big deal at the time.
Both good cars in comparison with the other options at the time. Maybe we just lucked in on two good 'uns.
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In terms of engineering they did some clever stuff, but in terms of visual design BL cars were completely out of step. I actually liked the Allegro, but put it alongside a Golf of the same era and its lameness becomes obvious. Golfs are recognisably the same shape--if rather more lardy--now as they were 35 years ago, which is telling I think. In some ways I suppose the Allegro was ahead of its time--the bubble shape was a 1990s thing--but being ahead of your time generally doesn't work out well when you're trying to sell something today. In contrast the Golf was exactly the right car for the moment; it was built well and it looked the part.
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Oh, and Daihatsu is another one to go - I can't think of anything they make which other Japanese companies can't do better. Maybe also Suzuki: the Swift is a lovely little car but they don't sell well, over here at any rate.
Daihatsu is basically Toyota. They make drab yet excellently reliable cars.
Suzuki may not sell well in UK but their bread & butter is Indian market.
30-year is a long time. However, I think most luxury European/American brands will struggle. The fuel price will rise further, European economy will plunge into red even more. European automotive market is already saturated. Economic situation is forcing people to downgrade to smaller and fuel efficient cars. The way gas guzzling American cars became extinct, some European cars will suffer from same fate.
In distant future, any car maker, who can't capture new economy market (eg. India/China/S.America/Africa) will struggle to survive.
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Fast forward 30 years.
Me being "dave" at the local pub.
Yeah, you remember the Mondeo from 2000-2007 - utter rubbish. Subframe bushes - go regular as clockwork knock knock knock - used to need special tools mebbe adhesives - off the road for 24 hrs - never happen to day! Dont get me on about rusty door bottoms on 'em incredible for the millenium. Oh and the TDCI - unbelieveable.
QED
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