Ford is selling Land Rover and Jaguar to Tata.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7313380.stm
I wonder what the world's cheapest car maker will do with these if Ford couldn't make Jaguar profitable?
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It's been no secret for a while. In fact today's Daily Mail's Letters page includes a reference by one contributor to Tata' s intention to buy Jaguar, set up long before Robert Peston seemed to believe he had an exclusive for BBC News and News 24 tonight.
Edited by Stuartli on 25/03/2008 at 23:23
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Headlines in 5 years time:
Land rover & Jaguar owners to move production to India to save costs.
16,000 people to be made redundant(not counting knock on redundancies from suppliers.)
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Headlines in 5 years time:
Or how about headline "Tata says tata to Land Rover and Jaguar" as the tiny market for those vehicles gets killed off by Darling's VED changes.
Bear in mind that during the time when big cars and 4x4s were the cars to be seen in in Chelsea, even then Ford could not make a profit - "But it is thought that Ford has invested about $10bn in Jaguar since buying it in 1989, for $2.5bn. Despite that investment, analysts say that Jaguar, which has plants at Castle Bromwich, West Midlands and Halewood, Merseyside, has never made a profit for Ford. "
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I can see it now. A Jaguar-badged version of the Nano (see car-by-car).
And the thought of the company who made the Tata Safari getting their hands on Land Rover? Words fail me!
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I wonder what the world's cheapest car maker will do with these if Ford couldn't make Jaguar profitable?
Perhaps they'll come up with something original, and that works, rather than the mediocrity we've seen lately.
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I saw my first XF today. Rear view only but was left underwhelmed - looked like any other Mondeo sized car. Not bad looking, but nothing special. Not helped by being in common as muck silver.
I know the X and S types weren't to everyones liking, but at least they looked different. Looking different hasn't hit BMW too hard!
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If I understand the situation correctly, ford made a big loss in the USA (but no so outside the USA), Land rover are doing well and making a profit. So it would seem Land Rover is being sold to provide cash to bail out Ford in the USA?
Both Jaguar and Ford seem to have improved their reliability ratings in the last few years, so perhaps may have been more profitable in the future.
Sound very much like BMW Rover, they at last make a good/better car (the Rover 75) then just as sales pick up, sell off the company after outlaying all that development money.
Will Tata still get Ford (peugeot??) Diesels for the freelander 2 in the future?.
Only reason I can see for selling Landrover must be that Hybrid diesel -electric or electric power must be the way forward for 4x4 as they get hammered for tax / fuel costs, so Ford would have needed to develop/invest in this technology for heavy duty vehicles.
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Interesting part is this:
The $2.3bn price tag is about half the amount Ford originally paid for the marques, leading some analysts to argue that the purchase was a mistake.
So why Ford is selling at this price?
Edited by movilogo on 26/03/2008 at 16:49
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So Ford are selling Land Rover for less than half the amount they paid for it?
Sounds like the same depreciation our Discovery II suffered since rolling off the BMW owned assembly line!
I guess there is a need for a Glass's Guide to car companies, so investers can avoid the highest depreciating ones!
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Whoever thought that Jaguar and Landrover would be owned by Indians?
They will soon have cheapo tyres and other parts made in sweatshops.
What has this country become, I think it's shocking and shameful that we can't make cars ourselves.
Can you imagine Mercedes or BMW selling out to India?
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I think the Ford Corp. is in serious long-term financial trouble, such that the judicious disposal of peripheral assets makes some sort of sense. It's not alone: GM is not doing so well, and who would invest in Chrysler?
I must say that Ford's ownership of Jaguar and Volvo seems to have been more intelligent than the smothering that other large corps have brought to historically significant marques, i.e. they seem to have done more good than bad.
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Should imagine the sites at Solihull and Castle Brom alone will make Tata a huge profit when they dismantle the plants and sell the sites off for housing/ runway?
Could be some good jobs going there for the next wave demolishing the plants.
We could have a nice little side bet here.
Which politicians will be getting nice little earners when they become directors of the Tata subsidiaries? The same ones who say how wonderful the new investment will be?
Keep your ears and eyes open, maybe we could open a book and offer attractive odds.
You couldn't make it up.
By the way has anyone been past Ryton recently...its gone only one more building to go by the looks of it.
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What has this country become, I think it's shocking and shameful that we can't make cars ourselves.
Why is it any different to the previous ownership by the Americans? At least the cars are still made in the UK, and it has been welcomed by the Unions who know where their next meal ticket is coming from - just as the workers at Derby, Swindon, Sunderland, and other locations where the foreign owned cars such as Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Vauxhall, MINI are made.
Edited by jbif on 26/03/2008 at 17:35
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And the thought of the company who made the Tata Safari getting their hands on Land Rover? Words fail me!
To make a company profitable, one needs more management skill than technical know how.
I think it's shocking and shameful that we can't make cars ourselves
... in globally competitive price.
Welcome to global economy.
Edited by movilogo on 26/03/2008 at 17:27
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So why Ford is selling at this price?
Because that is the best price they can get for it. Tata will probably find it hard to find any buyers when they come to realise their mistake in purchasing another British lame duck brand & manufacturer.
I found it interesting that the BBC lunch time news referred to this sale of JLR as a sale of iconic British companies to a foreign company. The reporter did not seem to realise that JLR was not currently British owned! Interviews with workers and the Union boss showed that at least they accepted the deal as a welcome development that would save their jobs for the next 5 years - unless Tata finds it cannot revive sales and decides to cut its losses before then.
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there's a fair chunk of negativity on here re this.
Ford have sold Jaguar and Land Rover because they've got real problems in the USA and in the big scheme of things for them Premier Automotive Group was a side show. The fact that most of it was profitable and the group as a whole was profitable does make it a strange decision by Ford to sell...but...politically i'd imagine they can't bin factories in the States and something had to give... and their US losses dwarfed PAG 's gains.
Jaguar is on the verge of profitability (and will more than likely do so now with the rave reviews of the XF) and Land Rover has been quite healthy, but to Ford, both products are harder to sell in the States because of the weak dollar and the exchange rates, so maybe that was part of it i.e. 'we can't sell them here, so why bother'.
Tata IMO is a good move for both Land Rover and Jaguar. Multi billion pound company with enormous resources who wants into those technologies... unlike BMW with Rover who only wanted a small part of what Rover had and in some areas had a similar product, so Rover would have been doomed from the start, with just the 4x4 and Mini parts to it being snatched and the rest sold down the river.
Tata have a proven history of buying companies (some of them British) and mostly leaving them alone to prosper e.g. Tetley and Corus... so what if it's Indian, does that matter? What's the difference between an Indian company owning LR or Jag, or an American one, they're both non British.
I'll stick my neck out and say i think it'll work.
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so what if it's Indian, does that matter? What's the difference between an Indian company owning LR or Jag, or an American one, they're both non British.
The bottom line is that some people can't accept the fact the a country which was under British rule for 200 years, made enough money/power to buy (once) British companies ;)
Edited by movilogo on 26/03/2008 at 18:03
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In my industry, India has been a long term source for components and indeed fully made product. In many cases the the workmanship and quality far exceeds that of the equivalent traditional European sources. The most desirable and upmarket of brands have strong links in Indian manufacturing and this source is known for delivering quality product on time. I shall watch with interest, and not inconsiderable optimism, to see how this scenario develops. The British sites should be readying themselves for the most demanding of management.
Edited by shoespy on 26/03/2008 at 18:25
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Saw my neighbour out today kicking the tyres of his X-Type. I guess he must have heard the news....
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I don't think it is quite so clean cut as Tata now own JLR and Ford are out the door.
Ford will still have quite a stake in the company as both brands rely heavily on Ford platforms, mechanicals and stamping.
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I'll stick my neck out and say i think it'll work.
I have no problem with who owns the company and I think it is great that someone is prepared to invest here to preserve UK jobs. I wish all the good luck to Tata to succeed where Ford failed.
IMO, I think Tata have probably misjudged the problem of selling luxury cars and 4x4s in the "changing climate in the market" due to the UK's obsession with taking the lead on "climate change". To be able to sell their cars with the new VED regime, they ahve to compete against the likes of BMW and Toyota who have been investing heavily in and developing low-carbon technologies for some years.
Incidentally the reason why Eastern continents can afford to pay for these takeovers is that their culture is one of saving, quite the opposite of the Western habit of living on debt. Nicola Horlick explained this eloquently on Question Time a few weeks ago.
Edited by jbif on 26/03/2008 at 19:12
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I have no problems with TATA owning these. Land Rover has been profitable for a while but Ford has linked it so closely to Jaguar both had to go. And to buy the slightly lame but improving Jaguar they had to sweeten the deal. Well that's how I see it.
But has anyone else not thought that for the steel based JLR vehicles (most of them?) then might the Corus link not potentially offer a saving? Cheaper steel? Would that be allowed?
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one they're both non British. I'll stick my neck out and say i think it'll work.
Got my work ethic and methods from listening to Indian Businessmen. Brits lazy incompetent shoulder shrugging unimaginative negative fools from my experience and that is 34 years of being self employed. No not all Brits before I am berated, but I think it is a vast majority. Too busy worrying if the next man is making a penny more and certainly don't think the Guvnor should have an earn. Pathetic. Don't moan that the Indians have bought it. It was for sale and they have come up trumps or otherwise. If anyone else can do better then do so.
Waits for the flack..........MD
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I prefer the Indians to own it than Americans, all they did was tell people in boardrooms to up their game and raise their profile and appoint team leaders.
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Americans eh! Very large Goon show.
MD
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