OK Guys (and girls)
This could be an interesting thread. Some clutch changes are so easy - I remember Vauxhalls from the mid 80's, where you removed a cover, slid back the input shaft from the end of the gearbox, and changed your clutch. Engine didn't need to come out. I counted that 'Good'
Wouldn't really count most rear wheels drives bad, because apart from P6 Rovers, you could just pull the box off after undoing gear lever, propshaft and support.
Then along came front wheel drives. Some of them are not too bad. I changed the clutch in my 1986 MKII Golf TD, and that wasn't too much of a hassle. But now I've got an '05 Mondeo, and from the manual, you either have to take the engine and box out from the top, then split them, or you need to remove subframe, steering rack - sounds like a real pig of a job - definitely 'Ugly'
So what would you say todays (or yesterdays) Good, Bad and Ugly clutch changes are?
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Skoda Estelle was a bit of a fag because the engine had to come out. You could just take the back panel off and wheel it out on a trolley jack, then the only thing you had to worry about was not dropping it or damaging those nice aluminium fins on the sump cover too much. The input shaft fitted into a collar with a wire clip inside the gearbox, and if it got pulled out it stuck out too far and the engine wouldn't quite go back, bit puzzling that till you twigged. You could get into the right part of the gearbox to sort it all out by taking the clutch slave cylinder off. Once you'd done it once though it wasn't hard. Great thing about the Estelle was you could leave the whole exhaust on, very handy that and a cheap part too.
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Skoda Estelle was a bit of a fag because the engine had to come out. You could just take the back panel off and wheel it out on a trolley jack then the only thing you had to worry about was not dropping it or damaging those nice aluminium fins on the sump cover too much. ------ Great thing about the Estelle was you could leave the whole exhaust on very handy that and a cheap part too.
Hillman Imps were a similarly easy job - trolley jack under engine, undo rear crossmember, bell housing, throttle cable etc and wheel engine out. My mate and I both had Imps and changed both clutches in one long morning. Exhaust was a box bolted under the manifold, only cost about £3 in those days (1970's)
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Good: Pre GM SAABs (900 and 99, not 9000) which had a telescopic primary shaft. The clutch was mounted at the front under a plastic cover. There was no bell housing as such and a full clutch change on a 900 could be done in 40 minutes (I did one for a friend at work in the car park during a lunch break).
GM copied this excellent scheme for their first FWD cars, then dropped it.
Bad: Many other more recent designs, but anything which requires accurate re-alignment (Mondeo front subframe) is just plain stupid. Given that most clutch changes are done in the latter part of a vehicle's life, the job needs to be simple to suit the low grade of labour expertise likely to be employed. An "under the arches" job on a 10 year old sophisticated car is almost certainly going to lead to grief.
659.
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"Given that most clutch changes are done in the latter part of a vehicle's life, the job needs to be simple to suit the low grade of labour expertise likely to be employed"
.... maybe that's why they did it... clutch change on Mondeo III probably about £800 at a dealer. It would write off a reasonably old car. Anyone with Mondeo reg MJ53 Nxx (should not post full reg) it had a new clutch last year at 3.5 years and 47k miles.
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Good: Pre GM SAABs (900 and 99 not 9000) which had a telescopic primary shaft. The clutch was mounted at the front under a plastic cover. There was no bell housing as such and a full clutch change on a 900 could be done in 40 minutes (I did one for a friend at work in the car park during a lunch break).
Can certanly vouch for that! I had a couple of 99s (first one had a free wheel device!) - If I remember correctly, couple of mins to remove bonnet, couple of mins to remove radiator and clutch cover, couple of mins to get someone to put their foot on the clutch pedal while you jammed some thick rope in the pressure plate, remove shaft cover, pull out shaft, lift out clutch assembly, put in the new one and repeat previous steps in reverse. 40 mins was what it took me too!
The free wheel device on the first Saab was great - clutch cylinder failed, so all you had to do was select free wheel, and the secondary clutch disengaged when you backed off the accelerator, and re-engaged when the revs built up again. Even in those days, it was possible to get 45mpg out of a big heavy (petrol) Saab!
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I currently have a classic in the form of a Sunbeam Tiger. I understand that it is a 3 day job to change the clutch. Engine, gearbox and front suspension assembly all have to be dropped. It also weighs a ton since the engine is a cast iron Ford V8. Not for the faint hearted!
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Can't they use the same shoehorn to get the engine & gearbox back out again? ;-)
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One of the best clutch changes has to be on the Truimph 1300, the front wheel drive model. The whole job can be done from inside the car, just by removing the carpet and gearbox cover. Indeed, you can even overhaul the gearbox from inside the car using the same method. You don't even get wet if it's raining.
I remember taking my Triumph 1300 to a chap in Ruislip who had a cottage industry of overhaulling 1300 and 1500 FWD gearboxes, he used to advertise in Exchange and Mart. I left the car with him, went off for a walk around Ruislip, and returned about 1 1/4 hours later. My car was parked outside his garage and he was about halfway through the next one. That really was as long as the job took, if you knew what you were doing!
Worst clutch change has to be the Mondeo. Have to drop the engine on the subframe below the car, although I do understand that some have managed it by taking the engine out from the top.
And they call that progress!
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Did an MX5 clutch in the home garage back end of last year over a weekend. Other than trying to lift and position the gearbox while laying on my back, it wasn't too bad.
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Some of the worst are RAV4's & Freelander's & Clio diesel's & Rover825d & the best were the vauxhalls, saab's, ford range & Triumph 1300FWD. Nowday's there are lots of nuts & bolts & an awfull lot to disturb
Doc
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Renault 5 Turbo.
Book time for changing the clutch - 14 hours.
Yes, that's 10 times the book time required to change the Clutch on a Cavalier.
Actually, as I've done a Vauxhall clutch in 15 minutes, the time for the Renault clutch is perhaps nearer 60 times that of the Vauxhall.
Number_Cruncher
Edited by Number_Cruncher on 05/02/2008 at 21:13
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Helped do one on a Citroen Light 15 once - now that was different !
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I recall doing a Maxi in an evening, although getting the new oil-seal in was a bit of a pain.
Land-crabs took a week of evenings.
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Land-crabs took a week of evenings.
Thats just taken me back a few years, and i wonder if the holes are still in the road where the lifting gantry sank. Did the rings/big ends/mains and clutch (and far too much else) on a 2200 land crab as well, did you know that it held 22 pints of oil?
Havent changed a clutch in donkeys years (last one was a Seddon Atkinson), but helped my son change his impreza clutch last year, that took us a weekend, and i tell you that gearbox is one heavy blighter.
As i only run auto's hopefully i won't have to do another......oh no youngest will be getting back on the road soon.
Had a soft spot for the old land crab though, still had more rear leg room than just about anything since.
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Toyota Celicia 4x4 - 4wd.
I watched a clutch change in a garage. Most engine ancillaries removed, engine lifted up, took about 3 days .
A real pig of a job.
Easiest: Original Mini. Piece of cake. In situ about 3 hours.
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The land crab with the 2200 six cylinder engine was doddle did not have to get under the car under 1 hour whereas the 1800 version was a nightmare,datsun sunny could be done in your dinner suit without getting the cuffs dirty.
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The land crab with the 2200 six cylinder engine was doddle did not have to get under the car under 1 hour
Your right, Andy, the 2200cc, was, if I remember correctly, a six cylinder development of the 'E' series OHC engine used in 4 cylinder (1500 & 1750 cc) form in the Maxi.
It was such a doddle.
Support engine, remove one engine mounting, remove big circular end cover (with release bearing attached), and change clutch. I remember the release bearing actuating arm used to sieze. Gave the same symptoms as a slipping clutch. Sometimes would stay totally depressed, and you would have no drive at all.
Why, of why, has it got so complicated?
Anyone want to give a list of current cars (i.e., mid 1990's onward) where a clutch change is within the means of a competent home mechanic?
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That Vauxhall "in situ" clutch replacement design was fabulous, and must rate as one of the best bits of engineering design I have ever seen on a car. I changed the clutch on my mk2 Cavalier, on my own, in about 40 minutes - the pros I'm told could do it in half that! I bought a Draper "Vauxhall clutch kit" consisting of clips to hold the clutch in compression, and a small slide hammer complete with an adaptor to attach the slide hammer to the input shaft. It made the job even easier (the shafts can be very tight). I still have these tools, used just once, in my toolbox - I wonder if they will ever be called into service again?
The Mondeo is a nightmare! Not only is it a swine of a job, but if you're not millimetre perfect when you refit the subframe (a distinct possibility even using the proper alignment tools), you end up with all kinds of handling and tyre wear issues afterwards.
Cheers
DP
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Saxo/106 looks easy. Going to do it on son's 106 as crankshaft oil seal is leaking - all over my garage floor:-(.
I reckon about 6 hours with coffee stops as driveshafts have to come out and I'll replace those oil seals as well.
Waiting for warmer weather.
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Most modern FWSD stuff is nightmareish. I have read a description of doing the clutch on a CX GTI Turbo though - that's enough to give you cold sweats... Engine and box out (mare, because there's no room, and the driveshafts jam in the diff so you usually have to split the inner joints); then once on the floor you find that the camshaft runs THROUGH the gearbox and drives the suspension pump, and you have to remove a bearing from the end of it before you can separate the engine and box - and you usually find the bearing is rusted in. Who knows what the book time is, and as for the actual time.....
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/02/2008 at 12:54
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I had the pleasure of the CX GTI early 80.s . Actually mini cabbed in it ( dont ask ) book time for clutch was 23 hours. Splendid car, power steering and brakes were an acquired taste.
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Agree with NC about the Renault 5. Not just the turbo job, but all of them.
Another awkward one was the original Daf 33 - 46 range. Engine out and six little centrifugally operated brake shoe sort of things to replace.
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