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have a look at the c4 grand piccasso. i love mine and very comfortable
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check if the Nissan note or Renault modus (both with super economical 1.5 diesel engines) have high enough seating.
I suspect however that the Ford C-Max is going to fit your bill.
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Another vote for the Ford C-Max - great to drive, brilliant and proven Peugeot 1.6 and 2.0 diesels and they have the dials ahead of the driver. We'd have bought one if the boot had been bigger. Very car-like to drive, but with the elevated seat position and extra headroom of an MPV. Brilliant car.
It seems a shame to dismiss the Scenic II just for the instrument panel position. The Renault dCi engines are peachy smooth and make a lot of other diesels sound and feel almost unbearably agricultural. You also get loads of toys to play with, and the whole car has clearly been designed to be completely painless to live with. Super comfy as well.
But it does have a digi dash in the middle - could you live with it?
Cheers
DP
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I'd agree about the C-Max, I've got one and it's a pleasure to drive. Very easy to get into and out of. Seats 4 very comfortably (especially with the rear seats slid back ). The instruments are very clear, and right in front of you.
There are actually three diesel engines in the C-Max, the Peugeot 1.6 and 2.0, and the older Ford 1.8.
The 1.6 and 2.0 are more refined than the 1.8, though the 1.8 has proven to be more reliable.
I've got the 1.8, and it's very economical on a run, but much less so around town, especially on short trips when cold.
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Berlingo. meets all your requirements and is cheaper than the alternatives.
And I have got one myself.
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>>brilliant and proven Peugeot 1.6 and 2.0 diesels >>
There are actually three diesel engines in the C-Max the Peugeot 1.6 and 2.0 and the older Ford 1.8.
The 1.6 and 2.0 are not simply made by Peugeot, they are a joint project between Ford and PSA and are fitted to many different cars now.
>> The 1.6 and 2.0 are more refined than the 1.8 though the 1.8 has provento be more reliable.
The 1.8 is a much older design mechanically though uses the latest control, systems and is actually very refined, IME more so perhaps that the 1.6.
Edited by cheddar on 29/01/2008 at 17:51
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The 1.8 is a much older design mechanically though uses the latest control systems and is actually very refined IME more so perhaps that the 1.6.
I've driven both the 1.8 and the 1.6. The 1.6 was extremely quiet - it didn't sound like a diesel at all, even when idling. It seemed pretty quick off the mark, but I didn't get a chance during my test drive to take it up to motorway speeds.
The 1.8 I've got by contrast definitely sounds like a diesel - it's noisier, especially while cold, has a distinctive diesel tick-over, and you can hear some clatter at low revs while accelerating. At motorway speeds it's smooth, responsive and has lots of torque.
Actually I wanted the 1.6 when I bought my car, but they were in short supply (in fact the dealer lied to me about their total lack of availability; I think to shift some of their 1.8's). I'm fairly satisfied with the 1.8, I just wish it were a bit less clattery and more economical around town.
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Haven't driven the 1.6, but my opinion on the other two engines would be as follows:
I drove the 1.8 in the S-MAX and although very impressive, and a revelation compared to the older incarnations of it in the Escort / Mondeo TD, the car I drove had a marked "dead" zone on the first inch or so of accelerator travel which made the car feel sluggish at town speeds. Once rolling it was fine, but definitely not as "petrol like" in its responses as our Renault dCi or the 2.0 Ford/PSA unit, and seemed to suffer from turbo lag. Maybe this example wasn't well.
That 2.0 Ford/PSA unit is incredible though. Punchy, refined and responsive. Have driven this engine in a C-Max and a Peugeot 407 and it blew me away both times with its clout and refinement. It's proper, back in the seat stuff when you ask for it, and very smooth and quiet even when worked hard. Haven't tried the 1.6, although a friend had it in a Pug 307 and reckoned it was a very sweet unit.
If I were buying a C-Max, I'd buy the 2.0 just because it's a superb engine in its own right. I seem to recall some road tests clocking this to 60 in the high 8's which is ridiculously potent for a diesel MPV.
Cheers
DP
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Lads,
Thanks for all the replies.
DP: "It seems a shame to dismiss the Scenic II just for the instrument panel position. The Renault dCi engines are peachy smooth and make a lot of other diesels sound and feel almost unbearably agricultural. You also get loads of toys to play with, and the whole car has clearly been designed to be completely painless to live with. Super comfy as well.
But it does have a digi dash in the middle - could you live with it?
Cheers
DP"
I don't know.... my perception is that the constant (albeit slight) head-turning will cause a bit of discomfort, but maybe I'm being over the top, or imagining something that isn't there.
Comfort-wise, I am very happy with my current scenic, which may yet make it to 2009 with me, however I'm less than impressed with its mechanics, and the bills I have had, which makes me look unfavourably on Renault as a marque.
I would like to test-drive the C-max some time soon, and I would also like to take a look at the Berlingo/Kangoo type of vehicles (on the one hand they're rather van like, but on the other hand I don't want to dismiss them when in fact they appear very practical).
Re the Nissan note, does that have the spedometer in the place I want? I've already discounted the Renault Modus as being too low, but would at least like to go see the Nissan. I've looked at www.nissan-note.co.uk but didn't want to go through all the flash graphics in the hope that there might be an interior picture...
Thanks again
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I don't know.... my perception is that the constant (albeit slight) head-turning will cause a bit of discomfort but maybe I'm being over the top or imagining something that isn't there.
I don't find the location of the instruments to be a problem unless you have a nervous passenger and want to make progress in which case it's a massive pain! When you break the speed limit, you may as well have a big yellow flashing light and a siren to alert them to your indiscretion! ;-)
I'm still not sure whether I like the digital readout more than the location. You don't get the view of the needles in your peripheral vision which means you have to divert your eyes from the road, if only briefly.
The 1.9dCi in the Scenic II has many modifications over the older unit that had such an awful reputation in the Laguna, and is by all accounts a tough, reliable unit as long as it's serviced regularly.
Pleased as we are with the Renault, if I didn't need the boot space of the Grand Scenic though, I'd probably have bought a 2.0 C-Max, as I said before.
Cheers
DP
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