My brother is the proud owner of a new Prius. I was astonished at the amount of legroom for rear passengers.
Like me, he is over 6 ft tall and he has his pushed seat right back. I had plenty of space to get my size 12's in and sit very comfortably. In fact, the rear space for passengers is better than my C4 Picasso (5str) Dammit!
However, the batteries take up a lot of the floor space in the rear hatch area so the storage space is very shallow.
I was surprised at the amount of road noise coming into the cabin too.
He pays 15 quid a year road fund.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 26/01/2008 at 20:42
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>in the rear hatch area so the storage space is very shallow.
Yes it may be shallow but you can get plenty in.
When my aunt had to come unexpectedly to the airport to pick up me and my family I was frankly amazed that all our many suitcases and bags fitted in with space enough for the 5 of us!
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Yes, that was my impression too. Friends in Cape Town have one, and it's fine around the city, but
(a) it's noisy accelerating on open roads as you have to use most of the available power
(b) as the petrol engine is working most of the time out of town a good diesel is much more economical
(c) our friends were warned by their dealer not to take the Prius on to dirt roads as the dust will harm the electrics. (Sorry I don't know anything more techincal than that). Unfortunately this warning only happened after they'd bought it.
I'd consider a Prius if I lived and drove mainly in town, but although I liked driving it, it doesn't quite suit my needs. But yes, very comfortable for people both front and back - I was going to say provided they don't all have luggage, but the above post reassures us on that count.
Edited by Avant on 26/01/2008 at 20:57
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The boot space of the Prius is listed as 408 litres on whatcar. A Focus hatchback is listed as 396 litres.
Looking on toyota.co.uk all the interior dimensions of the Prius are listed as n/a. How ridiculous is that?
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I too was more than pleasantly surprised by the amount of rear legroom in a Prius II. I don't need a large boot and do mostly urban/suburban driving, so it may be my next car unless the diesel automatic Subaru come out pronto.
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With respect to Tack's brother, Prius drivers are hypocrits, there is so much embedded carbon in a Prius it needs to do something like 250,000 miles over 10 years or so with no major component needing replacing to come any where near a normal car in overall carbon impact.
It is nothing short of scandalous that it is only subject to £15 VED.
I am not Toyota bashing, a Yaris or Auris D4D would be a much sounder environmental proposal.
EDIT: Though much better still to run your current car into the ground and avoid the need for a new car to be built, even if it is a 20mpg V8.
No joined up thinking, that is why embedded carbon is not being accounted for.
Edited by cheddar on 27/01/2008 at 08:23
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But I think the Prius was made with the USA in mind, where the Nitrous Oxide Smog neo-religion has a hold on the minds of the masses, rather than the carbon-footprint worship we have in the E.U.
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I am not Toyota bashing a Yaris or Auris D4D would be a much sounder environmental proposal. EDIT: Though much better still to run your current car into the ground and avoid the need for a new car to be built even if it is a 20mpg V8.
Yes, to an extent correct, but when I want to change my car I want something smaller than my Outback on the outside and bigger on the inside. I also want an economical automatic for urban use, so the Prius fits - to an extent. I agree that I should simply keep my current car, but I am not a hairshirted liberal.
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but I am not a hairshirted liberal.
That is the problem, the do-gooders who buy a Prius because they think it is doing good and the legislators that allow them to belive that.
Though if you buy one simply because it suits you and are honest about is real environmental impact then no problems.
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I know two people who have bought one. The one in London was bought for a combination of automatic economy (it gets about 40mpg around town) and low Ken Tax. The one in Israel was bought for similar reasons - the traffic is awful in Israel in towns - the Prius is a real winner there and because the extremely high import duty on cars is reduced for the Prius.
Neither owner bought their Prius becuase it was going to save the planet. They see it as I see it - as well specified and comfortable car that is more economical than the competition.
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My brother got the car because he is a fan of Toyota. He has always driven an Avensis petrol 2ltr. He is coming up for retirement and was looking for something of similar size to the Avensis or slightly smaller, but more economical (i.e in mpg and car tax)
Prius fitted the bill very nicely. He is getting 40mpg around town at present and only paying £15 tax. Sounds sensible to me matey. I don't think carbon came into his decision making, other than the collateral effect of it being cheaper to tax.
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>>I don't think carbon came into his decision making other than the collateral effect of it being cheaper to tax. >>
>>They see it as I see it - as well specified and comfortable car that is more economical than the competition.>>
Fair enough in both cases though, for instance, a Focus / C4 / S40 / V40 1.6 D would be better to drive and more economical albeit not auto.
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No Cheddar, the Volvo S40 has nowhere near the amount of internal space as a Prius and having listened to an S40 1.6D this afternoon, i'd say rather noisy as well as cramped.
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Cheddar: that's the Jeep propaganda, based on a reversal of the energy balance involved in manufacturing versus operation and disposal. Utterly exposed as a sham. Its been worked though on this board.
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I call them the 'Toyota Pious " based on the self satisfying clap trap spouted by the people who drive them.
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Some derogatory comments here from people who, I'm guessing, haven't actually driven a Prius. I was sceptical about them until I got one as a rental car during a business trip to San Francisco. I was so impressed that I now take them out of choice whenever I'm on business in California (where they are extremely common due to tax reasons). In fact if I wanted a car largely for city driving I'd be tempted to buy one. A Prius is far nicer in town than any diesel I've tried. It has lots of torque from 0rpm, no turbo lag, no rattly diesel engine and a smooth automatic gearbox. When stopped at traffic lights the engine switches off reducing both exhaust and noise emissions to zero and below 30mph it will also cruise purely on electrical power. It's an impressive and, according to the german reliability reports, very reliable piece of high technology. Wouldn't fancy one for extended autobahn journeys but it wasn't designed for that.
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What happens to the batteries when it's past its useful life ?
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Cheddar: that's the Jeep propaganda based on a reversal of the energy balance involved in manufacturing versus operation and disposal. Utterly exposed as a sham. Its been worked though on this board.
Who said anything about Jeeps?
And as far as being worked through on this board the carbon on use versus carbon in manufacture/disposal point has been discussed before here with no clear conscensus however the truth is clear to me.
Two points:
1/ The Prius has loads and loads of embeded carbon so a normal average family car is a much better environmental proposition.
2/ If environmental conciderations are to the fore its is much better to carry on driving whatever car you currently drive and thus not create the need for the new car to be built and accordingly avoid the embedded carbon that goes with it.
I am not saying dont buy a new car, I am not even saying dont buy a Prius, just do so with your eyes open, because it suits you best and not for psuedo-altruistic reasons.
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1/ The Prius has loads and loads of embeded carbon so a normal average family car is a much better environmental proposition.
If only considering carbon them the Prius is not great for the environment. On other emissions it is much better than the competition. Despite the current media obsessions environmental pollution does not only consist of CO2.
If I wanted an economical town runabout then a Prius would be near the top of my list.
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Cheddar. OK, it was a Hummer, similar aspirational crapology, just a different name. I have the references. What "loads and loads of embedded carbon"? Prove it.
Edited by nortones2 on 27/01/2008 at 21:15
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Cheddar. OK it was a Hummer>>
Who said anything about Hummer?
Lets make it simple, a Prius is quoted as being ultra low in CO2 and it is marketed and hyped on that basis though in normal use is no more economical than a 1.5/1.6 ltr TD - look at road test figures.
However it contains more embedded carbon than its conventional TD contemporaries and also requires more carbon to recycle it so over a lifetime it simply cannot be a better enviromental proposition - yet commands ultra low VED, zero congestion charge etc etc etc.
I am not advocating tree hugging or gas guzzling, you pays your money, you make your choice, I just dont think it is right that the environmental message is skewed so.
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A useful article about energy consumption in manufacturing the Prius compared with SUVs and the Hummer is here?tinyurl.com/33t94a
Ratio of lifetime consumption to manufacturing consumption is 90/10. Even if the Prius took much more energy to manufacture, which is untrue, it is the fuel consumption which is the primary issue. In the USA the Prius is very frugal compared with most petrol cars. There are very few diesel cars. Here, it gives good fuel consumption figures, considering it is not a diesel. Perfectly viable choice for urban users, and my well be preferable.
Edited by nortones2 on 28/01/2008 at 10:56
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I thought the main environmental concern regarding the Prius was the heavy metal pollution produced in manufacturing and presumably in the future disposing of the batteries.
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A canard posted by a rival paper: they had to withdraw the story. The plant featured, is in Sudbury Ontario, and refines nickel, 95% of which goes into steel alloys and electroplate. Prius accounts for 0.2% of the annual usage, taking into account that the batteries should last the life of the car and are recyclable.
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I knew as soon as a thread was started about the Prius that someone would call Prius drivers hypocrites and/or do-gooders - I think we've had both above.
The Prius is simply a car that fulfils some people's needs, and fulfils them well - Tack's brother for example. Let's be thankful that - at last for the moment - we are free to buy the cars we want / can afford. Anyone who tries to stop us doing that - now there's a do-gooder that we can do without - although I accept that something has to be done to control ever-increasing congestion.
In fairness to Ken Livingstone, he isn't trying to tell us what car we should buy; he is just trying, rightly or wrongly, to control what comes into central London.
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'I accept that something has to be done to control ever-increasing congestion. '..
So lets start with those councils ( like St Helens MBC ) who have spent the last 5 years narrowing the amount of road space available by introducing all sorts of ghost islands, sticky out bus stop lay byes and converting dual carrs in to two lane high ways.
Lets start with tackling the un corordinated activities of the Utility companies whose road works bring large sections of our roads to a standstill as they proceed with their operations at a snails pace.
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the amount of rear legroom seems also to making the "sell" of the Prius to a number of private hire/govt car service/chauffeur companies easier. you see alot in London being used for such services and when seeing them in traffic they look very spacious for that in town chauffeuring job. Also they gain from no Congestion charge and low VED for the operator.
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I saw a few Priuses as minicabs/ taxis in Belfast this summer.
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I would think with the current Prius the downside for purely city driving is the batteries are only charged by the petrol engine. Do mostly stop-start driving and eventually the engine has to run.
I believe they will bring one out in future that can be plugged into the mains to recharge. But not this one.
And if the mains electricity is not from renewable energy or nuclear then that means CO2 needed.... but if the engine/brakes used to charge it needs to produce CO2 anyway.
And if you don't run mostly on electric a good diesel probably does have lower CO2 emissions.
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I bought my Prius without environmental consideration. I wanted a good city car with the ability to do intercity runs up to 400 miles per day without discomfort, carry 4 passengers in reasonable confort [ I was also impressed by the rear-seat room ], and to minimise fuel consumption just to spite tax collectors. It does all of these for me. On approximately 50 / 50 split between city driving including traffic jams, and open road driving, I routinely get the fuel consumption numbers published by H.J. in his road test. { Yes, I have corrected the numbers for both odometer and fuel flow meter inaccuracy.} Routine servicing by the main dealer from whence I bought it sets me back the equivalent of 80 pounds each 10k miles. In 20 months / 30k miles, the only fault has been a reversing camera - replaced under the 4-year unlimited distance warranty.
I leased a 1.6 HDi Pug 307 S/wagon in Europe last year. That gave me marginally better fuel consumption than the Prius, although the difference was within the gain to be expected from a manual over the Prius automatic transmission. Regrettably, diesel cars are almost taxed out of existance here, otherwise I would have been tempted by the Pug { but not for Green reasons !!}
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"Regrettably, diesel cars are almost taxed out of existance here"
Like petrol for UK company cars.
Good to know we live in a joined-up world!
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I am told by a fellow Robocop that pacemaker wearers shouldn't go in 'electric cars', of which the Prius is certainly one. When you travel by air they don't even ask to see your card, just let you walk round the magnetic scanner and give you a fairly thorough patdown frisk depending on airport (Dublin notably less fussed about it than Heathrow, not surprisingly I suppose).
Don't look forward to Rosa Kleb pulling on the rubber gauntlets in some future airport though.
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