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Perhaps they would not let you recover it yourself because you would disturb fingerprint and any other evidence..?
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Yeah I guess so, I did think about that but other people I spoke to who have had their car nicked have been told where to find it & can they get it themselves, I just thought the charge was unfair. The only thing I can think of is maybe it has been used for something & that is why but I still don't see why we should pay so much.
Just found a story about this on the BBC news website actually saying the govt. are trying to do something about the charges but I know we will have to pay it, I suppose I'm just having a winge!
Thanks for your reply
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Of course you can dispute it - but I very much doubt that you will get anywhere.
The police have already recovered the car, incurring the charge - and the price of £100+ is not unreasonable for that. They're working to resolve the crime and reduce your insurance excess.
Assessing the damage is up to the insurers - the police will not want to be involved in this
I would want the keys and fobs changing - or trade the car quickly.
If your (or your insurance) don't pay this charge, then who will end up paying it ?
Personally, I'd be happy with what the police were doing.
Good Luck in getting a quick resolution.
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They could have just left it where it was and let it get stolen againwould have made another good Police bashing thread :)
I'm not police bashing, I just wondered if anyone knew if there was an argument for the victim not having to pay this ridiculous amount
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I think I'd ask the insurers what the form is - they must meet it all the time. You could always ask the police what happens if you don't collect it!
While I have plenty of time for the police and other emergency services, I was under the impression that this was simply part of their normal job, as would be having your house fire put out, or a trip to casualty in an ambulance. However, in our brave new world of financial targets, PFI and internal invoicing, these things are often charged, and people pay up because: a) it can often be reclaimed under insurance, and b) it seems churlish not to. I'm not convinced it has much legal force, though, especially if no-one forewarned you...
(Well, sir, we'll look for your car, but it will cost you £100 if we find it.)
Edited by J Bonington Jagworth on 25/10/2007 at 16:57
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I'm not police bashing I just wondered if anyone knew if there was an argument for the victim not having to pay this ridiculous amount
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, but just two points:
1) The amount does not seem that outlandish
2) Very rarely does the victim of a vehicle theft or no-fault accident come away without some financial loss. I know this shouldn't happen, but there you go....
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"responding to OS' post" full quote snipped
I think the fact that we have both been driving for over 20 years and have never had to make a claim for anything on either car or home insurance has made this so surprising to us both as we are both a bit 'green' with what can and can't be done in these circumstances.
The amount may not sound outlandish but to us it does as we are both pretty darn skint!
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 25/10/2007 at 18:41
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When SWMBO's old mk2 Astra was found after being stolen, we were offered a choice of either recovering it ourselves, or having the police recover it and store it safely.
What annoyed me most was that the car was 40 miles away, and they wouldn't tell us what state it was in. To a private individual it's a little different recovering a running car with superficial damage and recovering a burnt out shell.
This was 10 years ago, and I seem to recall it was getting on for the price you mention even then,
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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When I thought my car had been stolen, the police took the details and said they would tell me if they found it.
They added that I could pay £100 or some similar sum to get them to collect it and take it to the pound, or I could go and fetch it myself. They pointed out that in the latter case the car would be left where it had been abandoned and there would be the risk of further damage or vandalism.
Fortunately though it had only been stolen by the council owing to my failure to scrutinise a suspended bay notice in the dark some yards away from my car. I say fortunately, but really it cost me more like £150 to get it back.
:o{
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The amount may not sound outlandish but to us it does as we are both pretty darn skint!
Please forgive me, spriggy, if you thought I meant the amount was trivial. Unfortunately, even what looks like a simple recovery operation can cost that sort of figure.
Sometimes, people will suggest using various means to recoup your losses, but these often prove so convoluted that many folk simply give up. Even more galling when, as you say, you've been coughing up for insurances for many years without claim.....
Edited by OldSock on 25/10/2007 at 17:25
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I once had a car nicked where they broke into the house and took the keys. I got the car back with a bit of cosmetic damage, but I was skint so I claimed on the insurance to get the minor repairs done and of course get all the car locks changed.
The insurance claim value was about £750 at 1998 prices, but I subsequently wished I had paid for the work myself instead because my excess was IIRC £250, so that plus losing 2 years NCB cost me more in increased premiums than the value of the claim. All a bit silly but as I say I was skint at the time.
The car was found half a mile away nearly 3 weeks later, I had almost given up on them finding it. Mine didnt need fingerprinting, but in the boot I found some keys from a computer keyboard and some broken glass, that were not there before!
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The lots of good Point here in having the Police recover your vehicle
1 The Police are responsible for it's condition and security so you should get and inventory etc.
2 They will use a "good recovery contractor" no disrespect to a body shop recovery chap but they usually aren't so careful and as well trained as a "Police contractor"
3 You get a recipt and this can be claimed through your insurance and the cost that you quoted is very resonable.
paul
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its because they get paid peanuts to do the recovery paul 1 ,theres always jobs available for what is essentially a 24/7 job in all weathers,a car ended up in some trees near me last year that needed fishing out,ive still to work out how the young girl got it up there,it came down with a long howser and a big thump though
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When you report your car stolen, you're supposed to be asked then, whether or not you are willing to authorise recovery (by a private firm) if the vehicle is found. This costs from memory, £105 and is often easily sorted by insurance companies.
If you weren't asked this and did not authorise it, then in theory the vehicle should have been left where it was and you told where it was to recover it and therefore you'd not be liable for any fee.
However, if the local police want to actively target the car thieves, then they'd want the car to be subject to forensic examination and that is best done in a secure environment like a car pound, so it would need towing.
Then there's the fact that if your car was left where it was found, a fair number of them get vandalised or re-stolen, before you get there.
Personally i think you're receiving a good service and should pay it. The arguement of 'it should be free', is unrealistic really, because there are so many demands nowadays on police budgets and it's been decided...rightly IMO.. that towage and storage fees will not be part of that budget..that service is provided by private companies, who obviously want payment.
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"so many demands nowadays on police budgets"
Yet we were told years ago that local policeman, together with the houses that went with their job, were too expensive. Cue rise in petty crime and huge increase in spend on new vehicles to patrol the streets that no longer had a police presence. If the police need to move a stolen vehicle to assist their detection of criminals, then it is part of their job! Do joyriders get a bill when a police helicopter is used to track them..?
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>>If the police need to move a stolen vehicle to assist their detection of criminals then it is part of their job!
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very true......but one with a cost. Someone has decided, as a policy, not to pay that cost and use the money elsewhere. In an ideal world there'd be enough cash in the pot to do everything....
unfortunately we don't live in ideal worlds and reality dictates there has to be some choices made....this is one i agree with
normally you can 'opt out' if you wish... and many do.....although i know what my choice would be....cough up so my pride and joy becomes safe as soon as possible and if by agreeing to cough up i can help catch the oik that nicked it, then all well and good. Particularly as the ins co. will pay up most of the time anyway.
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Police Forces have been stung by disgruntled punters when their cars were nicked again after they were found - So I guess they can't win can they. Your insurance company will probably look after it.
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Thanks everyone for your replies. I rang the police back today after reading some of your replies & spoke at length with them and now accept that this was the right thing to do. I think it was just the fact that everyone else I spoke to had said they were given the choice but obviously we know where the car is, it is safe, it has now had the forensics do their stuff etc so we can collect it tomorrow. Sounds like there is minimal damage (bashed wing/no wing mirror) so it could have been much much worse. I was just a bit miffed with it all and the fact that we had no choice in paying but I suppose £105 isn't that great amount when you compare it to what it possibly could have cost us in the long run.
Best wishes all x
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Sometimes people will suggest using various means to recoup your losses but these often prove so convoluted that many folk simply give up. Even more galling when as you say you've been coughing up for insurances for many years without claim.....
And council tax, paying for the police service that you've never used.
-----------------------------------------------
2005 Ford Mondeo Zetec 2.0 TDCi 130ps
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And council tax paying for the police service that you've never used.
Thats kind of what I was originally thinking Kith - all the council tax we've paid & have never asked for anything in return but then again, who knows what they have done to prevent anything happening to us that we don't know about???
I'm just glad that the car isn't a burnt out shell and my hubby is also extremely lucky that his newly added alloys are still on the car! I think they are more valuable than the old Mondeo they are attached to!
There is still the worry though that they still have the key & could come back at some point to retake it. I think for the time being he will take the battery off each night until we can sort out new car locks etc.
Thanks again for replying - this has not only been an eye opening & stressful experience but a lesson learnt too.
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tinyurl.com/28akzf
read Question 13
Pretty standard police procedure throughout England.
dvd
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spriggy: don't leave collecting the car too long.
I seem to remember that after some period like 48 hours they start to charge for storage, not all that cheaply. And you said you were normal*.
*normal: adj., skint or broke (OED).
:o)
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This nonsense started in the 1980's when they tried to get what should be public services operating like 'private business'.
I remember having a Nissan Sunny Estate nicked off our forecourt in the late 1980's. Got a call from police to say it was found in Carlisle, about 150 miles away. Could not get any info as to the state of the car (coppers there were really awkward you-know-whats). When we eventually got there the car was wrecked. Of course there had been no effort to determine who the thieves were - some of their belongings still left in the car. I don't think the police had even bothered to open the door and look inside.
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I remember years ago when mum's mark 1 Escort was pinched, police found it and took the HT leads off it to prevent it going any further.
My dad had to collect the leads at the Police Station on his way to the car.
--
2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
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Commiserations on your loss - and on the expense of recovery.
Inevitable in this day and age. Analogies spring to mind here of charges for a Fire or Ambulance callout in certain cases, an excess on a lost credit card, damage to a hire car, etc. (Even if you pay all the charges and tick all the boxes on a car hire form, look closely - there's always an excess and it may be as much as 500 Quid!) The local police here (in Spain) have recently started charging for attending to assess an accident, i.e. if you want to claim and the other party denies it.
In these cases, it's not necessarily someone's "fault", just that someone eventually has to pay. Insurers (bless 'em, eh?) will undoubtedly argue keys should never be out of your sight, the alarm wasn't a Thatcham 4, blah, blah...
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Spriggy, it may be cheaper just to have an immobiliser fitted to the car rather than changing all of the locks, I know it means that it will be easy for them to get in the car but at least they can't take it again. To be fair, if they want to get back in for some specific reason they'll get in whether you have new locks or not! :-)
Blue
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The charge is unreasonable. You've already paid for their services in your council tax.
Would those that support this £100 charge also support a bill from the police if your house got broken into and you called them?
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Would those that support this £100 charge also support a bill from the police if your house got broken into and you called them?
But would you need a recovery truck and have a storage facility for a house break in?
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Quite, DD.
I think that last post gets the 'specious argument of the week' award :-)
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The charge is unreasonable. You've already paid for their services in your council tax.
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so is a prescription charge and paying for the hospital car park etc,
someone has had to juggle the figures and charge you for some things, so that other areas can benefit......no easy answers unless we're taxed considerably more...don't suppose you'd want that either
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"unless we're taxed considerably more"
I appreciate this is getting OT, but we're taxed more now than ever previously! Unfortunately, a lot more of that money goes into the pockets of extra layers of management, 'consultants' and contractors who charge for services that were once done in-house, but have now been outsourced in the name of efficiency! (hospital cleaning/MRSA anyone?). The government lies low on this because it knows that there aren't enough 'real' jobs to keep everyone employed, so it tacitly approves of inefficiencies that keep people off the streets, while trying to screw extra funds out of Joe public at every possible opportunity.
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I wouldn't bother changing the locks. They nicked the car by nicking the keys. Provided they have left the keys behind, I don't think they'll have gone to the trouble of paying to have some more cut in order to re-steal the car in due course; do you?
And whilst you are out of pocket (and I sympathise about that), it is a salutory warning to be more careful with keys.
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Just an update really, picked the car up this morning - cost £170 altogether so the 2 police officers that I spoke to & who said don't worry no extra costs etc obviously had no idea! Anyhoo, its been crashed into something so have been intouch with the insurance co who are going to take it sometime today to assess but they were arguing with me that we shouldn't have collected it, the police should have rung the insurance co for them to collect. This gets more and more confusing as the days go on.
What is really guttng tho, on getting the paperwork today it was actually recoveredfrom the next road up! It looks like they have driven round the block, crashed & done a runner. Full tank of petrol still, all the tool still there, alloys still attached, baby seat still in place....guess it could have been so much worse!
Thanks guys for all your replies, a lot of them made lots of sense and thanks to those telling me off as well and I shall make sure my hubby 'logs in' his keys every night when he gets home!
Sam x
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roughly similar happened to me
car was nicked
my brother found it, we went and told coppers, and THEY decided to tow it away for fingerprinting
they wouldnt let us have it back without paying (the police garage), we complained to inpsector who told us to pay and worry about it afterwards, we paid but were careful not to sign the disclaimer they wanted us to sign
consulted solicitor, expense of invesigation is police cost not yours, told the police in no uncertain terms that refusal to return car without payment was extortion, issued small claims summons and police returned money by cheque
this all happened in the middle of many other hassles, as we knew who had nicked it, we knew their parents were big in the underworld, and we also found out they had contacts with the folk running the compound where the police take stolen cars
nightmare absolute nightmare
this is what happens when you try to be a good citizen and try to stop thugs these days, they nick your car, and you only get grief from the police as well, oh and we got the car back with the bolts holding the brake calipers on lossened right off
anyways we left town in disgust, will never go to deleted* again
* town removed, enough to be considered naming & shaming
Edited by Webmaster on 26/10/2007 at 14:46
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"Question 13"
That seems the thin end of a long wedge. It implies that any outsourced service used by the police (in the execution of their duties!) could be charged. How long before bills are presented for forensic examinations, running costs of Tetra facilities or tea ladies?
Howcome the victim gets the bill and not the perpetrator?!
Edited by J Bonington Jagworth on 26/10/2007 at 16:32
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we are both pretty darn skint!
I just hope you have enough spare to cover essential maintenance so that your car remains safe to be driven on the road.
--
L\'escargot.
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"enough spare to cover essential maintenance"
Shall I hold them while you kick them? That was uncalled for.
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My very thought JBJ. Perhaps escargot would like to offer them a soft loan, since he is so concerned for everyone's safety?
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Thanks, Lud. I'm not normally that intemperate, but it riled me. Perhaps they would be able to maintain it better if the police hadn't just relieved them of £105!
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Since, presumably,your insurance covers the vehicle for theft, any attributable costs from moment of theft to return of (repaired?) vehicle should be covered by it one would assume.
On your insurance claim form why not simply include this recovery cost under 'miscellaneous' of whatever the out-of-pocket expenses section is called. It probably won't even be queried by the insurance co. if accompanied by the recovery company's receipt.
It should then be up your insurance co. to pursue the police for the recovery(!) of the recovery cost if they deem it unreasonable.
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That figure of £100 seems unreasonable to me. After all, isn't this part of the polices job to collect evidence from crimes etc?
And how come the figure is a nice round £100. Very convenient!
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Thanks everyone - My dad has actually lent me some money so if there are any 'essentials to keep us and everyone else safe' then we are okay. The insurance co are taking it away for it to be assessed anyway so we are not using it therefore not putting anyone, including ourselves, at risk.
Just wanted to clear this up escargot.
Snakey: The actual cost of it all was £170 in the end - apparently the £110 standard charge goes to the police and the rest to the recovery people. The recovery people did agree to not charge us vat at first which cost us just over 140 but then the insurance co needed a receipt for the reimbursement so we had to go back to pay the vat to get the receipt.
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You have a choice about parking in a hospital carpark or getting a prescription (not much of one, but if you disagee, you can simply not have the medicine).
You have no choice if you wake up one morning and find that in the course of the night somebody has nicked your car then the police picked it up without asking you and towed it somewhere.
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You have a choice about parking in a hospital carpark or getting a prescription (not much of one but if you disagee you can simply not have the medicine).
I was about to post something similar - the NHS is supposed to be free, yet ordinary working people have to pay towards prescriptions etc. It really makes me mad that we're paying taxes for NHS, Police etc, yet when you you need them you're still expected to pay.
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You have no choice if you wake up one morning and find that in the course of the night somebody has nicked your car then the police picked it up without asking you and towed it somewhere.
The police are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they leave the car where it was abandoned; it could be stolen again, parts robbed from it, or just vandalised. Car owner sounds off at police for not ensuring car was safe and secure. If police arrange for it to be picked it up and put in a safe storage area, car owner then complains to police about how much it has cost to do so.
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Actually, that reminds of the time (around 15 years ago!) when my car broke down on the motorway. I was 1/2 mile from an interchange so I walked there to phone a friend who came and took me home to get changed (it was chucking it down).
I arrived home 30 minutes after breaking down and was collecting a tow rope to remove my car when the police called telling me they were going to remove my car in the next 45 minutes and charge me £175 to do it! Fortunately I beat them to it.
That was some time ago, so the price hasn't gone up that much I suppose!
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Someone I know was charged £180 gross ten years ago after an accident. The net figure was a bit less after an exchange of letters.
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"The net figure was a bit less after an exchange of letters."
I'm sure it was, but doesn't that imply that the legal basis for the charges is a bit shakey? It sounds to me as if the police know that they'll get their money from most people, especially if they can reclaim it from their insurers, but if they are challenged hard enough, they will back down. If anyone has to pay, it should be the perps!
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The Police do not charge anyone. They arrange for recovery through a recovery scheme. Any financial transaction is between the owner and the agent.
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I took this of Suffork Police's Website
Will I have to pay if the police recover my stolen vehicle and if so, how much?
There are statutory fees you are legally required to pay. The Government sets these in the form of statutory regulations, which they make under section 102(2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. The fees are currently £105 for the removal and £12 for each storage period (or part) of 24 hours. No VAT is payable on these fees.
Can the recovery operator charge more than the statutory fees?
Under section 101 of the Road Traffic Regulation act 1984, the police must release any vehicle they have removed on payment of the prescribed fees.
However, if the recovery of the vehicle was particularly difficult or involved specialist equipment) e.g. burnt out vehicle/overturned vehicle, the recovery operator may charge additional justifiable costs. You should notify your insurance company immediately of any such additional charges.
Whom do I have to pay?
The fees are due to the police. You will pay the recovery operator acting as our agent.
How much profit do the police make out of the recovery scheme?
None, the fees are intended to meet the costs of removal and storage.
How soon will I know that the police have recovered my stolen vehicle?
The recovery operator will write within 24 hours of your vehicle being recovered.
Will my insurance always cover the costs I have to meet and will any claim affect my no claims discount?
That depends on the particular insurance policy you have chosen, so it is best to check with your insurer.
What happens if I do not contact the recovery operator?
If the police use their powers to recover a vehicle and there is no contact from its owner or last known keeper within seven days of being notified of its recovery, the police will normally authorise the recovery operator to dispose of it. This can be sale or by scrapping it. Any profit from the sale (after recovery and storage costs) is payable to the owner if claimed within a year. A full audit trail for each vehicle recovered is maintained.
I do not want to reclaim my vehicle, do I still have to pay?
If the police removed your vehicle using their powers under the Road Traffic Regulation Act, they are entitled to recover the statutory fees and you will still have to pay.
If you do not reclaim your vehicle, you lose your claim to its load. The ?load? is any items you had in it, on it, or attached to it. The only items from the load that you can always have back without payment are the ?essentials of life?. These are defined in law as follows:
1. Any medicines and medical equipment.
2. Financial items such as cash, credit cards, cheque books, pension or benefit books.
3. Keys, such as house or shop keys.
4. Clothing needed immediately, such as a raincoat or jumper.
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re "The Police do not charge anyone. They arrange for recovery through a recovery scheme. Any financial transaction is between the owner and the agent."
sometimes this is true, cops ring owner who agrees to have it taken to safe place cos they are too far away or whatever
BUT sometimes the cops decide to tow it away as their own decision, indeed sometimes they refuse to let the owner drive it away, and insist on taking it away for fingerprinting (confiscating evidence i suppose)
in the second circumstances it is indeed the police that are liable for the tow and storage charges
they will indeed try to get you pay, they will try and force you to sign an agreement to this, but you do not have to
and the police in some place use storage garages owned and run by shady characters who are hardly the kind of people you would want to be looking after your property, and indeed their staff screaming at the public just trying to get their cars back, does the police no favours
the whole experience of the honest decent member of the public suffering a car theft and the interactions they have with the police and their subcontractors (the tow and store people) should be looked at, as it really does the police no great PR favours
oh and getting your car back covered in fingerprint powder is no fun either, if you have tried to clean this stuff off it is terrible stuff to try and remove, the police should really do themselves a favour and clean it back off
so mlc having been the victim i can tell you it varies widely, some police forces are quite good and i have been really grateful as the victim, others are clearly out of control and providing terrible service and should really be forced to sort out their act
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oh and getting your car back covered in fingerprint powder is no fun either if you have tried to clean this stuff off it is terrible stuff to try and remove the police should really do themselves a favour and clean it back off
maybe they should just leave the car in the street and not bother investigating the theft at all
or
pay a specialist cleaning company to be on stand-by for just this service, would cost of course, but hey it won't matter if another service is axed instead will it?... or maybe there could be a one-off £105 fee that the owner could be charged for... no one would mind, would they?
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a laughable response
im on the side of ordinary bobbies doing their best BUT
we already pay for the police to investigate crime and associated costs
damage caused to car by fingerprint powder is i am afraid down to the police to sort out
and having scum garages screaming at me when all im doing is asking when i can have my car back does the police no favours
Northumbria police on the other hand have been great when ive had cars nicked in their patch
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