I've never heard of any recognised or taught braking technique for learner drivers that involves braking in the apex.
Left foot braking for the highly skilled perhaps- not to be learnt on public roads however it is possible to employ such techniques on them once the skill is acquired.
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>> as if the car is rear wheel drive i.e. Brake at the apex of the corner instead of before and accelerate through the corner. >>
Is that right? I've always had rear wheel drive cars, and it has never occured to me that I ought to be braking on the corner rather than before. Slow before, accelerate gently once half way round, was what I was taught.
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brake before the bend, in a straight line if possible, constant speed around the corner and feed in the power gently as you leave, was how i was taught
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'braking should be done in a straight line before a corner '
I was taught (at Siverstone) that braking should continue a little after you start turning in. The weight transfer forwards loads up the front wheels, and increases grip.
Definitely not to be practised on public roads!
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I was taught the same at Oulton Park, and I use that technique daily on the road.
Tell that to an IAM observer, though, and expect fireworks.
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Brake before the bend, in a straight line or as near as possible, and accelerate through it. If it's a slow bend or you are in a hurry drop a gear or two for better acceleration.
Slow in, fast out.
Braking on turn-in or at apex may unsettle the rear end of a front-drive car and give a bit of beneficial oversteer. Then again it may not... don't start experimenting when you're going fast, the road is wet and there's a lot of traffic. Do it cautiously when there's no one about.
Of course wet roads are useful for exploring a car's handling because the car unsticks at slower, safer speeds. But unless you're sure what it will do, best try these things cautiously if at all.
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Of course wet roads are useful for exploring a car's handling because the car unsticks at slower safer speeds.
Less tyre wear, too. :^D
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Left foot braking ie while using your right foot on the accelerator can stabilise the car during hard cornering as I already intimated.
However this isn't something I'd expect to see a novice driver being taught which is the question here.
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Left foot braking ie while using your right foot on the accelerator can stabilise the car during hard cornering as I already intimated.
Even in a FWD?
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Left foot braking in a FWD car will definitely unstick the rear end as long as the accelerator keeps the front wheels turning. It's what rally drivers do. But unless you are already a rally driver, be damn careful or embarrassment may result.
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I'm gonna have to go find myself an empty car park I think...
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A rich friend of my youth, when an undergraduate, bought a 1947 Buick Special from a US airman at Brize Norton: a side-valve straight-eight, two door fastback in cream and maroon. The gear linkage was broken, but you could select any of its three gears by moving the rods under the bonnet by hand, depress the clutch when starting the engine and drive off easily, even in top. In second gear, on an empty car park with a nice dusty surface in St Aldate's in Oxford, I ascertained by spinning it repeatedly, on purpose, what fun, that it had lots of torque and suffered from violent roll oversteer that might not always need to be provoked deliberately...
When the gearchange part finally arrived from America my friend, still a friend today, used it as his car. But he wasn't really a car person. I warned him about the roll oversteer, and mentioned the very low-geared steering, but he nevertheless lost it one day going up the twisty hill on the old A40, up the escarpment between Thame and High Wycombe, and it went up a tree. No one was hurt, but it was a pity about the Buick.
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Race, rally or normal road driving .
Any corner; Slow in fast out. Fast in dont come out !
In other words get all the heavy braking done before the turn, only light braking is then needed to "control" the car through any corner!
It applies from novice through karts to Formula 1 !
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Sometimes unsticking the rear or causing oversteer is the fastest way round a corner. Works a treat in a FWD with the right set up like a Focus RS.
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Hence the "control" of the car through the corner with only light braking required to do it.
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I don't think the OP knows what an apex is
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I was always taught to brake before any steering wheel movement into a bend, and to apply power through the rest of the bend so the car is driven through.
I have since learned to left foot break as well, and with some experience can dab the brake to get some tuck in and let out the rear. Works well on FWD cars that want to oversteer.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Me I was always taught to lose all the speed you need for a bend before you go around it, and follow the "arrowhead" so that the speed of the car always matches the speed at which the "arrowhead" opens up. Brake on the apex of a bend in a rwd car don't think so unless you want to experience the sensation of a terminal spin !
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Me I was always taught to lose all the speed you need for a bend before you go around it and follow the "arrowhead" so that the speed of the car always matches the speed at which the "arrowhead" opens up. Brake on the apex of a bend in a rwd car don't think so unless you want to experience the sensation of a terminal spin !
You should have done all braking before the bend, and the engine should be pulling you through the bend, i.e. not coasting and not big acceleration. In this case the car is properly balanced.
Or that's how they used to teach it.
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Works wellon FWD cars that want to oversteer. ------------------------------
I think you might have meant understeer.
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>>I think you might have meant understeer
Understeer is normal for FWD, but left-foot braking with the power on give oversteer in a corner - terminally if you're not very careful!
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errm I sometimes wonder if people bother reading what's been written prior to their commenting.
The poster I was replying to suggested
" Works well on FWD cars that want to oversteer" referring to left foot braking.
I then suggested that he actually meant "Works well on FWD cars that want to understeer" ie the normal state of a FWD car is to understeer in extremis.
Left foot braking doesn't necessarily give oversteer in a FWD car either, you can also induce 'neutral steer'.
Here's a great link for people who want to understand more.
www.rallyracingnews.com/lfb.html
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It's raining outside, the roads will be very greasy, I'm going out shortly and attempt to brake mid-bend in a powerful rwd with all the software overridden. If I don't post in 24 hours send MrsP some grapes for me ! Don't brake on the apex of a bend it can hurt.
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If I don'tpost in 24 hours send MrsP some grapes for me !
I dont want the old landy, but drop the "3" to me in your will.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Yes it was a typo, i dab brakes to chnage behaviour from understeer (normal fwd behaviour) to oversteer (normal rwd behaviour)
And yes you have to apply power to prevent the provoked light rear into terminal oversteer.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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IMHO with a FWD car, when I approach a corner at the right sort of speed and get the line into the corner about right, I find I can get sufficient change in the line through a corner just by judicious ( and reasonably gentle) use of the throttle to save me the bother of correcting minor steering "pointing errors": gentle throttle is the norm and relatively neutral, off throttle tucks the nose in with a tendancy towards oversteer, a bit more throttle than "gentle" will also tighten the line. Heavy throttle isn't an option.
Only if I've got it badly wrong, or something unexpected has happened, do I need to brake in the corner.
Probably goes back to being on 2 wheels in my younger days.
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I was always taught to brake before any steering wheel movement into a bend and to apply power through the rest of the bend so the car is driven through.
This dogmatic way to look at it. Probably because instructors believe learners need a simple message.
It all about trading off grip available for steering and braker/accelerating. You can do both together, as any good driver should, but the sum needs to below the threshold of skidding.
I have since learned to left foot break as well and with some experience can dab the brake to get some tuck in and let out the rear. Works well on FWD cars that want to oversteer.
Never liked it. Somehow my left foot has amazingly acute finesse on the clutch, but not the brake..
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