Intrigued by the recent threads about rusty Mondeo 3s, I've been keeping my eyes peeled for modern motors with rust. Two examples I've seen in the last few days :
00W Merc E class with rust on sills, front wing and headlamp surround. Yes, I know Mercedes' decline in build has been well documented but this was still surprising. Car was otherwise a straight, genuine looking example ie not accident repaired.
02 02 Volvo V40 with rusty rear arches exactly the same as used to afflict the old 400 series from the ex DAF factory in the Netherlands.
Anybody else got any starters for 10?
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Yes, Mercedes Sprinter vans - even ones just a few years old are basically driving rust heaps. Hardly inspires confidence in the brand.
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Hardly mdern, but I remember a few years ago at the NEC Motor Show a disgruntled Subaru owner parked their very rusty car in a prominent position in the car park with large posters and signs alerting everyone who passed to the dreadful rust. It was an early Subaru (1600?) and can only have been 3 years old or so, but was so riddled in rust anyone would have thought it was an amphibious car that had been driven from Japan to Blightly in the sea.
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If you haven't owned a 1950s or 1960s car you don't know what rust is. All you see nowadays is superficial surface rust. My 1967 Hunter failed it's first MOT because a strengthening member under the driver's footwell, and part of the surrounding floor, was completely rusted away. This state of affairs was common in those days.
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L\'escargot.
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Corrosion has affected many (perhaps most) MB models built between 1996 and 2002, especially the W210 E-class, and also many more recently made models. Some of it has been far from superficial -- suspension collapses, for instance. As a marque, MB is not alone, but I have seen no reports of other marques to compare with the extent of the MB problem. It saddens me as the owner of several older MBs.
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All you see nowadays is superficial surface rust. My 1967 Hunter failed it's first MOT because a strengthening member under the driver's footwell and part of the surrounding floor >> was completely rusted away.
That's because the only rust-proofing they had was a thin layer of dirt and an even thinner layer of paint.
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That's because the only rust-proofing they had was a thin layer of dirt and an even thinner layer of paint.
But at least they put the dirt on over the paint, the Minx had paint on top of the dirt :-(
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I saw an X reg Focus estate the other day with very obvious rust all along the bottom edge of the tailgate.
Probably where some unsympathetic owner has scratched it while shutting the boot, but even so...
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I saw a P-reg Ford Ka go through an auction a couple of years ago, and it looked like someone had crossed the channel in it. Huge scabs of rust on all panels, paint hanging off the doors, the sills were completely rusted through in places as well. Other than this, and a lot of transit-sized vans (particularly Ford and Mercedes), I'm not aware of any major rust problems on modern cars.
Until last year I had a G-reg Nissan Sunny which was almost rust-free. My current W-reg Almera has a tiny patch of surface rust at the bottom of the rear wheelarch, and a few scabs on one of the engine-mounts. I certainly wouldn't expect MOT-failure due to structural rust on a car under 10 years old nowadays. I saw a 1981 (old W-reg) Mini Metro yesterday which looked fairly rust-free(!!!), so I'd say it depends how the car's cared for throughout its life, rather than just "that make/model of car always rusts".
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Saw a 'S' reg Fiesta a few weeks ago. Bonnet completely rusted through in a few places. Never seen such bad rust on a car since the 1970's.
It would appear that Ford need to raise their game regarding bodywork.
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02 reg mkIV Golf TDI estate on the M3 last night which had a strip of rust about 30cm long under the rear screen on the tailgate.
Seen a few mk3 Mondeos with the dreaded door rot as well.
Cheers
DP
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It would appear that Ford need to raise their game regarding bodywork.
We've had this debate before - I agree with the durability of Ford's products not being up to much, although there's always an exception. New Fords always get good reviews for handling, performance etc (despite using archaic engines in the Ka and Fiesta), but it'd be interesting to compare the durability of the major manufacturers' bodywork at 5y/o, 10y/o etc. It always used to be Fiat and Peugeot that had the big rust problems, but they're comparitively "cured" now - It'll be interesting to see how the MkIII Mondeo, and current Fiesta & Focus models fare in 5 or 10 years time.
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We've had this debate before - I agree with the durability of Ford's products not being up to much ..........
I don't know on what you base this opinion. I've owned eight Fords and I've never had any problem with durability, either of the bodywork or of any other component.
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L\'escargot.
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I don't know on what you base this opinion. I've owned eight Fords and I've never had any problem with durability, either of the bodywork or of any other component.
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Ford forums would be a good place to start.
I had a mondeo that suffered rust on the doors which ford very nicely told me to go away with.
And my 2000 focus estate has some lovely bubbles under the door mirrors and as just started to rust at the bottom of the tailgate.
Too many focus and mondeo are suffering rust from the early(ish)2000 period and i dont think its good enough.
Of course Ford tell you to get lost so,put up or cough up.
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I don't know on what you base this opinion. I've owned eight Fords and I've never had any problem with durability either of the bodywork or of any other component.
Would you agree with me that Citroens are largely trouble free cars, on the basis of my experience of them?
There is plenty of evidence that Ford have a corrosion problem with their current range of cars, including in this forum.
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Saw a 'S' reg Fiesta a few weeks ago. Bonnet completely rusted through in a few places..............
I would suggets that that is not typical of an S reg Fiesta ~ probably a badly sprayed replacement bonnet.
It would appear that Ford need to raise their game regarding bodywork.
You can hardly base your judgement of Ford bodywork on a 9 year-old car. In any case I've no doubt that a lot of things have changed in the last 9 years!
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L\'escargot.
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You can hardly base your judgement of Ford bodywork on a 9 year-old car. In any case I've no doubt that a lot of things have changed in the last 9 years!
Even if a new Ford were immune from corrosion problems with a 9yo car suggest the co was late getting to grips with rust issues. Our 91/H BX went to the scrappy in March 2005 pretty much rust free (it was the steering rack that did for it). The 89/F 205 I ran for a while in the late nineties was equally good, and even the 78/S 104 I had from 82 to 86 was structurally OK and looked no worse when it happened to pass me in Fetter Lane c1990.
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I'd say it depends how the car's cared for throughout its life rather than just "that make/model of car always rusts".
I agree with that. We have a P reg mk4 Fiesta which were notorious for showing signs of rust within a few years. Barring a small bubble which I've just noticed coming up on the bottom of one of the back doors, ours is in lovely condition.
Conversely, we bought an R plate Polo three years ago which had severe bubbling on both rear arches when sold, but our neighbour's example (same year, similar miles) was not affected.
Cheers
DP
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Nissan Navara (Dec 2004 - 54 plate) has gone back for more bodywork problems due to rust, corrosion and paintwork problems than I can count
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It probably depends on how long your car spent here:
tinyurl.com/2phqwm
or here:
tinyurl.com/2nwovc
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00W Merc E class with rust on sills, front wing and headlamp surround. Yes, I know Mercedes' decline in build has been well documented but this was still surprising. Car was otherwise a straight, genuine looking example ie not accident repaired.
Very strange an 00 w e class has plastic sills.
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I'm surprised by this thread, probably because I thought all cars were now galvanized (bodyshell) - is this not so? The wifes N reg 405 is still totally rust free from the sills upwards and it's not been garaged. My Xantias the same but the XM is showing some small bubbling on the arches.
Steve.
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For Sale - Xantia HDi Exclusive.
XM 2.1 VSX.
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Likewise SWMBO's 1995 306 Sedan.
The paint scratches as soon as you look at it, but having crawled all over and under the car a few weekends ago to perform annual service and pre-MOT check, I know that the body shell is rust free bar one known 306 weak spot*. Even areas that have caught a stone chip or where a mechanic's wrench has flaked the paint - even on the exposed end of a panel - are entirely corrosion free. Fasteners, ferrous engine components, and driveshaft nuts (a dull rather than shiny gold colour) are also rust free, and it's pretty accurate to say* the only rust to be found is the expected surface rust on cast iron components. For a cheapy cheap car, anti corrosion measures are completely at the opposite extreme of what applied to its Peugeot predecessors.
*The weak spot is the metal flange on which the rubber door seals run along the roof; peel back the rubber, and nine times out of ten on a 306 they will be rusty. I treated ours some time ago with Dinitrol which stopped it in it's tracks. I have no idea how this weakness got through otherwise superb anti corrosion measures but it's the only thing that stops a 99 score become 100.
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"Very strange an 00 w e class has plastic sills"
Apologies, I meant door bottom
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"It probably depends on how long your car spent here:"
Thanks for the Bedford airfield site pic. My 06 Zafira came from an airfield in Bedfordshire (assume this one) straight to me, but from the seatbelt & door seal dates it only spent about a week there!
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I spent Good Friday afternoon sanding off rust spots, repairing 3 small holes and repainting the sills of SWMBO's 2001 Fiesta (23000mls from new) they were devoid of any form of underbody protection. Ford had a go at 2 rusty seams and the flanges that front door seals push onto a year ago under warranty. These botches have proved useless, so have had a go myself. We are now resigned to the car lasting another 3/4 years at the most, until the rust finally proves uneconomical to repair. Terrible in this day and age!
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I was in the local Mercedes spares dept a couple of years ago - spares guy told me he had just had to order 4 new doors for an E Class that was 3 years old.
Our 1980 300D original panels were still in good nick - how the mighty have fallen, but I guess there are mugs who will still pay a fortune for a three pointed star, whatever the quality.
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Reports continue to emerge about corroding MBs of various types, including top-spec CLs and the like. My goodness I'd be angry if I'd spent £75k on a car and found it rusting within months. Ten years ago I got pretty stroppy about the corroding brake callipers on my new Golf VR6, made all the more noticeable by wide gaps between alloy-wheel spokes, and had to fight VW to get them painted -- which of course needed redoing after five years or so.
As we're discussing Ford . . . I have a 1984 Capri 2.8i that is almost free of corrosion, although it has led a relatively sheltered life in its 75k. Contrast that with the Cortina Mk II estate acquired new by my bro-in-law in the 1960s; it had to be totally resprayed within a year.
I'm disappointed to learn about poor-quality Ford bodywork. I thought they had raised their game so effectively (see reviews of the new Mondeo) that such weaknesses were long gone. They couldn't be hoist on their own petard of built-in obsolescence, could they -- make sure it will degrade, but, oops, it's happening too quickly? Could that be the case with MB too, I wonder?
I take it that Audi at least, and no doubt others, are still getting it right, water-based paint notwithstanding. The paintwork of my 100E was in remarkably good nick when I sold it in 1999 after ten years of use from new. Actually, the quality was clearly better than that on the 1995 MB that replaced it.
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My mates 02 Focus Ghia has a rusty tailgate
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One of my friends 1989 G Plate BMW 316 saloon has 70K on clock and they have owned it since new but the car had a rusty passenger door at the bottom and a rusty rear valence. BMW dealer quoted £1100 + VAT to fix the door alone so they went off to a very good independent bodyshop and got the door and valence fixed for under £500 the car is now totally unmarked and will live on for a few more years
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One of my friends 1989 G Plate BMW 316 saloon has 70K on clock and they have owned it since new but the car had a rusty passenger door at the bottom and a rusty rear valence.
To be honest, if you have a few spots of rust on a car that's 18 years old and worth a few hundred quid, you shouldn't really mind.
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i suppose it doesnt help that all cars use the body work as a neg path back to the battery, why dont they have a sheilded earthing system that doesnt require common earthing? i wonder if any flash motors have a different system?
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i suppose it doesnt help that all cars use the body work as a neg path back to the battery why dont they have a sheilded earthing system that doesnt require common earthing? i wonder if any flash motors have a different system?
I would expect cars with a carbon-fibre bodyshell use a different system ;-)
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wonder how they get round it, and carbon fibre doesnt rust anyway i suppose!
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Most Land Rover products - still.
Ford again - I wonder if Volvos rust now?
659.
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Interestingly enough, the Merc S Class introduced in 1992 doesn't seem to suffer from superficial rust. It seems to be built like a tank and nearly all of them I see still look superb...Would quite like one of those
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why dont they have a sheilded earthing system that doesnt require common earthing?
Cost. Every electrical component would then need a "neutral" wire.
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L\'escargot.
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The 1990s MB S-class (W140) was part of the good old MB engineering-led culture. However, it has to be said that it does succumb eventually, as do the W124s (wheel arches first), W126s (underneath back window, wheel arches), R129s, R107s and even the redoubtable W201 (the 190 -- first C-class). All those weak spots have shown up typically after a decade or more, rather than within months to a few years of delivery.
The W140 has many fine qualities. It can be a bargain buy, but watch out for wallet-shredding repairs of electrical components in particular. It's a BIG car, too big for my taste and a constant challenge in normal parking circumstances. The complexities of the S600 V12 would scare me to death as a prospective purchase.
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