Hi All,
Thinking (again!) of changing my car.
I like big cars with all the toys and literally you're spoilt for choice around the 6k mark and about 5 years old. I'm thinking here of mass market cars such as Mondeo 2.5's / Vectra 3.2's / Omegas / Volvo S60's , each would typically have about 50/60 k miles on the clock.
Its these types of car that I've always seemed to end up with and they've ALWAYs cost an arm and a leg to keep fuelled and on the road.
I find that at 5 years old I'm picking up the first or second owners (sometimes) big maintenance bills that they've avoided having to spend such as exhausts, clutches, brake discs, batteries, shockers, bushes, and a gearbox rebuild on one occasion etc etc.
I then find that after 2.5 years when they get to be about 7.5 years old they start to look and feel baggy and I'm tempted to change to yep, you've guessed it another 5 year old car! and so start the cycle of exhausts, clutches, brake discs, batteries, shockers, bushes etc etc.
As far as depreciation goes, my lovely 6 grand car after 2.5 years and then with 80k on the clock is suddenly worth 1500 as a trade in after I've spent a load of dosh getting it pukka.
Every change of car brings with it new problems and less initial trust (i.e. I need a period of say six months to find out a new cars foibles). I also end up paying a dealers profit more often by changing more often.
My current logic is to perhaps spend say 10k and get a year old modern diesel car such as a cdti Vectra / Peugeot 407 HDI which are well equipped, possibly just as quick as the above cars in normal driving, have 2 years warranty left and keep it for longer - perhaps four years so that its actually me that gets the best life out of the car.
I've worked out that I could save a 1000 pounds a year on fuel alone never mind lack of MOT's for two years and all new componentry that would be fitted. This fuel saving would pay for me to get that 4 years newer diesel car.
I know that even a newish car needs maintenence and costs to run, and it seems like I made up my mind to get the newer car, but what I'd like to hear hear from you chaps is wether my logic works or I should just hang on with a car till its dead?
Seems to me that high spec 6K/5year old cars are very expensive in the 2-3 year term - anyone agree?
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All 5-7 year old cars are going to need batteries, exhausts, shocks, bushes, discs in that sort of time period.
Where you're going wrong a bit is buying the high spec cars, because any of those components tend to be expensive. Cam-belts as well, which on some newer cars can be ruinously expensive even on the smaller models -- one reason why I always try to buy either (a) a simple car where the timing belt replacement is cheap (and doesn't involve other bits at the same time), or (b) one with a timing chain.
My approach is to buy a car with heavy depreciation, relatively new. That way you're getting some of the cars best years without having to pay too much.
Looking at that spec-list, it's no wonder I kept going back to Nissan really.....
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Work out what it costs you on a monthly basis.Then look how much it costs to lease a new car from somewhere like Lings,you may well be surprised.
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You (davidh) are buying the cars that I sell! We tend to buy new (or very nearly new), keep for 5 yrs and then sell. Hopefully, all we have to pay for is routine maintenance, and maybe tyres and sometimes an exhaust back box.
We generally *do* lose a fortune in depreciation though ? on some smaller cars we?ve got back 50%, but it?s usually worse than that.
However I?m buying peace of mind - I?ve run older cars in the past, sometimes to the extent that we had to have 2 or 3 of them to ensure we had one working vehicle available. That?s the trouble with an older car ? they?re always carrying some kind of niggle.
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It sounds as if you enjoy the big car feel & luxury (a bit like me) - I go through this analysis too, but tend to buy
1-2.5 years old & keep for 1-1.5 years - so have either maufacturer's or approved used warranty 'peace of mind'.
I reckon to spend (in depreciation terms only) about £5K per annum, with fuel + (maybe) tyres + (maybe) MOT costs
on top.
On your figures it seems you spend about £2K p/a 'flat' depreciation, with say, £1200-1500(?) p.a on maintenance (exhausts, shocks etc.)
+ the usual: fuel, tyres etc, so about £3.5K p/a 'true' depreciation ( flat depreciation + exhausts, shocks etc)
For that you get a nice car, but the 'worry' of knowing it may require time off the road for major bits. (or may even break down)
- it looks simple to me: You either 'trade-off' the fun of the larger/luxury car car for a more prosaic beast (sensible family diesel etc.)
or buy more more fun with (possibly) added hassle.
Unfortunately , there's no easy answer, it's known as 'Glass's Paradox' or the 'CAP-in-hand' syndrome
& only resolves itself when the 'BangerNomic' line on the graph crosses the above two.
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On your figures it seems you spend about £2K p/a 'flat' depreciation, with say, £1200-1500(?) p.a on maintenance (exhausts, shocks etc.)
If my car was costing me £1500pa in maintenance it'd be out the door.....
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If my car was costing me £1500pa in maintenance it'd be out the door.....
But you'd be happy to get the newer car and pay £1k extra in depreciation, but £1k less in maintenance?
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Work out what it costs you on a monthly basis.Then look how much it costs to lease a new car from somewhere like Lings,you may well be surprised.
As long as your circumstances are pretty stable, and you don't do too high a mileage, then personal leasing or PCP may well be a good answer. It might still be a little more expensive but you shouldn't have to do anything other than routine servicing - no need to bother with 3000 mile oil changes etc.
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May be I have been fairly lucky but the 6 year old car I bought at 75,000 miles has had little needing repairing over the past 2 and a half years. There have been 4 new tyres (£50 each), new battery (£60), new clutch (£800 - ouch), new glow plugs (£45), new discs and pads (£200), and a s/h rear wiper motor (£20). There have been 3 MOT's plus annual servicing as well. The injectors are just going to be serviced as they have now done 92,000 miles and will cost about £230. Added up this is far less than the depreciation than you would have on a new car. I certainly do not consider this motoring to be bangernomics, but the car has only depreciated by about £1000 to £1200 over this period.
davidh I would certainly keep an eye on political developments as smaller engined and lower emissions will certainly keep the taxman at arms length, so it may be better to buy a newer smaller car or possibly face a huge amount of depreciation (large 4x4's have recently dropped heavily).
--
Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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David,
As we all cars are never cheap nad our experiences all differ. What to do ? - buy new for piece of mind but suffer massive depreciation or buy s/hand , less depreciation but more wear and tear so possibly bigger maintenance bills. The costs can be the same.
Personally I've always bought sensible cars, Vauxhall Belmont 1.6, Renault 19 RT TD and currently a VW Polo TDI estate. I always buy a 2/3 year old car with a sensible mileage (up to 20k - 25k) for about 50% or less or less of the new price. I then have a current model car, with any snags/teething problems sorted and sometimes the balance of manufacturer warranty.
My curent car the Polo (1999 T plate) had 23k miles on it when i bought it at 3 years old for £5695. It's now up to 79k and worth £1700 trade in perhaps £2000 for a private sale. I've had no reliability issues, it has averaged 60mpg year round, insurance is cheap (group6), maintenance costs £150 per year for straightforward servicing other than that - the exhaust was replaced last year and I've replaced 6 tyres and a couple of rear light bulbs - thats all. Thats all the other cars mentioned above cost me too!
I sell them on again only when major problems are looming - usually around 7/8 years old. The VW though is bucking the trend and all is well so I'll keep it a little longer. It is a basic no frills car. The only ' toy' it has is electrically adjustable mirrors. No central locking, no sunroof or A/con, no CD player - but so what. It does what it's intended to do that's transport me and mine safely, reliably, comfortaby and cheapily anywhere, anytime.
IF I WANT FUN I HAVE A FULL MOTORCYCLE LICENCE (currently between bikes).
My advice is buy a sensible low spec car and get a motorcycle for sunny days.
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Why not consider buying new and keeping the car longer? Spread the finance over a longer period. My 2000X Audi still looks and feels new and I don't think of it as secondhand. It's done 78k miles with no reliabitiy issues at all, still has original exhaust, battery, etc. I've only changed tyres (apart from cam belt etc at 60k). AND ... I know e xactly how it has been treated and serviced, which is priceless.
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I think I've found the tipping point with my BMW, I bought at 7 years old with 100K on the clock, I had no trouble for the first 6 months but now it's starting to throw up some more bills, I'm going to see how it fares when it gets serviced this week and if there's a list of things that need doing then it's probably going to go the journey!
On the other hand, if there's not much wants doing then I will definitely keep it, at the moment I'm getting nice powerful motoring on a relatively cheap budget!
Blue
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