Looking around for a new car lately, it occurred to me that, above 3 years old, hardly any cars have a full service record.
How come this happens? Is the average car owner really this negligent? I'd have thought that putting a car in for service at least at the same time as the MOT is done would be a given, yet it seems not.
What makes things even worse is that one service in three years when the car has only done a few '000 miles is considered to have "service history". What???? I'd class that as neglect of the highest order.
Do these documents simply get lost in 99% of cases or should the entire car-owning population of the UK be shot?
Forget these parking / environmental fees etc, I'd say that the environmental impact of all these neglected cars littering our roads should be looked at first. Overtax those who refuse to service vehicles!!
Anyone agree?
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As some service intervals can be up to 20k I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Not all, and indeed a couple of examples I was looking at were Primeras where the service interval is 9000 miles.
The main issue though is the huge numbers of cars with either no service history at all, or advertised as having service history where there is only evidence of one service in three or four years, because the owner has taken the service interval to be 1 year/10K, whichever comes *last* rather than *first*.
As for the 20K thing, I've always been very anti-this practice anyway. Personally I wouldn't touch a 6 year old car that'd only been serviced every 20K/2 years with a bargepole, even if that were the manufacturer's recommendations, but that's beside the point.
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" Is the average car owner really this negligent?"
Yes, and sadly many don`t even know it what constitutes neglect.
I tried to buy a newish used car, underneath all had subframes rusty and seemed to never have had salt jetted off.
Looked under 20 or so, no one bothered to keep the brake lines smeared with grease.
I could go on for at least 3,000 words but will spare you :)
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I tried to buy a newish used car, underneath all had subframes rusty and seemed to never have had salt jetted off.
Aye, and the self-same cars will often have been cleaned (in car-washes) without the underside even being looked at.
Am I really being overly cautious having the underside jetted once a month at least, and wax-undersprayed every two years (cost £60)?
I guess the problem is that people only keep cars two years, so don't give a damn.
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They may service their own cars - one of my family members is an ex mechanic and for the past twenty years has always serviced all our cars regularly (just it wont be in the book). However must say with cars becoming more difficult to access and more complicated its becoming more of a job for the garage.
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>>Why does nobody look after their cars?
Nothing like a nice bit of generalisation is there?
Obviously I am but a figment of imagination and my properly maintained, fastiduously cleaned, two cars and motorbike are but a pipe dream? ;-)
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>>Why does nobody look after their cars? Nothing like a nice bit of generalisation is there? Obviously I am but a figment of imagination and my properly maintained, fastiduously cleaned, two cars and motorbike are but a pipe dream? ;-)
You (in common with most on forums like this I'm sure) are one of the rare and welcome exceptions to the rule :)
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The other angle is that most people have worked out that no matter how well you look after it and service it, your car will still be regarded as a variety of dog dropping when you want to sell or trade it at anything more than 5 years old. As for ten year old cars, you have to pay people to take them away, no matter how good they are. Disclaimer: My impressions from living in UK from '97 to '03.
Here in NZ it's a little better, as the environment is nowhere as corrosive, but there is still a vast pool of near-new Japanese imports available at bargain prices. This means that people don't see their car as a valuable asset, but more as an appliance. Televisions used to be expensive, serviced regularly, and looked after. Now, you just dump it and get another one. Cars are going the same way.
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> Televisions used to be expensive, serviced regularly, and looked after. Now, you just dump it and get another one. Cars are going the same way.
Nail on head. The disposable society.
Causes more pollution and environmental damage than running an old smoker will ever do.
Like I say, rather than shuffling the deckchairs, I feel that the Government should go for the jugular and "encourage" owners to maintain cars properly in order to (a) maximise efficiency and therefore minimise damage, and (b) have the knock-on effect that cars last longer.
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Yeah but jase, speaking as a latecomer and nevertheless sticking in my 2 cents' worth, then we'd have to go back to a more easily maintainable sort of car. It could easily be done somehow on a modular basis.
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A lot of people dont even bother to check tire pressures, if I had a pound for every car I saw with spongy or near flat tyres id be a milionaire. My brothers pasat boiled dry the other day, he hadnt had it serviced it for 18 months or even checked the colant level! His take on things is that he will get rid in a years time so why bother.
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Well if it makes you feel any better jase, Im looking after my littel Suzuki van very well as I want many years service out of it. I wash it twice a week, polish with carnuba wax once every two months, remove tar, Im waxoyling the underside this summer and I even polish the metal floor in the back to stop corrosion from the wet valeting gear I carry.
I also service it religiously and make sure tyre pressures are right and lights work once a week.
We arent all car abusers, but it depends what you want from you vehicle. I want long term reliability and durability, hence my approach.
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Tend to agree with you jase1. When I was looking round for an Accord end of last year many traders thought that service histories were ok if they had 1 in 3 present. Ok I admit I was looking at R regs but even so. Went to look at one advertised as FSH, 67k on the clock, No history since 50k and at least 2 years - now it should have had a new cam belt at 60, but nothing to say it had!!! There were lots like this around. I ended up getting a 97k mile example with FMDSH, so there are a few out there, but did take some searching.
I get ours done every year, with 6 monthly oil changes mid way -reason being they do mostly round town stop start work. I also get the ATF changed every year, makes all the difference on the gear changes!!!
But I don't do it for re-sale value, I do it for piece of mind and because I cant afford for them to either break down or to keep changing them.
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A lot of people I know haven't got a clue about cars and maintenance. They fall into 2 camps, one group will only buy a new car and have their car serviced at the limit of the recommended period, then they sell the car and buy new again to avoid having their car go through an MOT (go figure - more money than sense !). The other group spend as little as possible on their car, cheapest fuel, cheapest tyres and servicing etc.
I won't buy a used car without a full service history, and I don't sell a car without it having a full service history. I consider it my responsibility to care for any car I own or drive as well as doing my utmost for the safety of other road users and that means spending cash of proper maintainance.
Walking around the streets it's horrifying to see how many cars have low or illegal treads on tyres. Have you ever thought they could be the car following you too close on a wet road and what would happen were you to stop quickly ?
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The people I see jetting their cars in public round here are the 'look at me' types . I am a more retiring character- perhaps that has got something to do with it.
I'd never jet the car anyway as the Passat is too close to the ground to gain access and it is likely to rip off paint,underseal and force water into wheel bearings etc. I've seen it happen to a colleagues car.
As for greasing brake pipes, well who knows what can be disguised by such like.
I follow the manufactures service intervals which are indeed 10k/1 year whichever comes sooner. Not last.
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I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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"Am I really being overly cautious having the underside jetted once a month at least, and wax-undersprayed every two years (cost £60)"
Sounds good to me Jase, Its what I do re the underside cleaning. Sound good value for the wax spray, I didnt know you could get this done, is it a specialist firm?
I used to do this spray waxing myself but now have nowhere that I could reasonably undertake this re the mess it makes,
Regards
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Stu, That Susuki van of yours is definately going to last 20 years at that rate!
Just a thought though, (with respect.) I`m not sure about the twice a week washing as thats going to get dampness into the door bottoms and crevasses that would otherwise be often dry. Washing salt off regularly sure, but in summer *when it is dry* I often leave my car for a month between washing just so the door insides are not constantly damp.
Just a thought and only IMHO
Regards
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"As for greasing brake pipes, well who knows what can be disguised by such like."
I grease them on a new car and then every couple of years, implicit (but not stated properly ) in my post about this is that I expect others to do the same from new too :)
I know i`m a sad old git but I cant sleep if my brake pipes are not protected by grease :)
( same about piles of rock salt sitting on the subframes)
Regards
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"Why does nobody look after their cars?"
Cars are cheaper now in real terms. Even young lads and lasses seem to afford fairly new cars whereas twenty-odd years ago the best we could aim for was an old banger.
People are busier.
People have other interests. Why be messing around under the bonnet when you could be putting some decking down in your garden?
A lot of things are becoming disposable. Our washing machine has started making a funny noise (it's a Zanussi and has been brilliant for the last 11 years) but I don't think it's even worth calling a technician out when you can buy a new one for less than £200 - although I think we will get a more expensive one all the same.
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You could wash your car every day and it won't get any wetter than it is at the moment.
I suspect a lot of apparent neglect is due to the poor reputation a lot of main dealers have earned, why pay hundreds for service when you suspect all that was done was an oil and filter change?
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The disposable nature of cars has ironically got a lot worse due to all the 'environmental' factors.
I.e Would you spend over £300 on a catalyst for an 'old' car? The car might only be worth £500 but the without the cat it will fail the MOT, rendering it useless
I used to fix and repair cars until the bitter end. Now if a large bill looms, the car goes and I invest in a newer model instead.
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I've got an N-reg Xantia, which to all intents and purposes is worthless, however I know it's history and what's been done do it. If a £500 bill came up I'd have to fix it, a replacement would be much more and I'd be buying something totally unknown, most people seem to sell when something expensive is on the horizon. Cars these days don't rust like they used to, so the incentive to cut your losses is lessened.
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Why pay £80 per hour to have your car serviced when it will hardly have any bearing at resale time?
As long as it's running on all cylinders and passes the MoT emissions, then that's good enough, isn't it?
Most people aren't petrol heads, but they do notice the bank balance dip when the car goes to the dealer.
That pretty much covers it I think!
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Stu, That Susuki van of yours is definately going to last 20 years at that rate! Just a thought though, (with respect.) I`m not sure about the twice a week washing as thats going to get dampness into the door bottoms and crevasses that would otherwise be often dry. Washing salt off regularly sure, but in summer *when it is dry* I often leave my car for a month between washing just so the door insides are not constantly damp. Just a thought and only IMHO Regards
Every part of metal that is visable, including under the bonnet and engine bay is polished twice a year ( this is parts aside from the exterior paintwork which i do more often ) so I most likely have the cleanest door hinges in the county! I would also point out that I leather off all the non-exterior paintwork so its never wet for that long. I wash all my door bottoms to stop the dirt that holds moisture and thus leading to rusting door seams and onto rusted out door bottoms.
I do 12,000 miles a year and leaving my van for more than a few weeks means dirt gets far more ingrained, esp on the steel wheels which rust very quickly if they are left with brake dust on them for some reason. Plus I am a car valeter and I of all people should be turning up at customers houses in a sparkling vehicle. Im a great believer in practicing what you preach :-) So far, accident damage aside ( another thread coming on that! ), my van is as good as the day it rolled out of the showroom.
Everyone has their own ways and reasons.
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Sound good value for the wax spray, I didnt know you could get this done, is it a specialist firm?
Well, Hyundai actually recommend you do this, and have the equipment ready to go. My local dealer charges £99 for this, so I'd imagine they all would, and for any car.
I spoke to my back-street mechanic about it, and he pointed me in the direction of a small body-shop who still does this for the £60. It might be hard to find one of these in your area, but certainly if you have a Hyundai dealer nearby the £99 job should suffice.
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The lack of service history is probably because it has been binned and the car clocked.
Why should I lay in a puddle under my car greasing brake pipes for the benefit of the next owner who wont pay any more for the privilege. Surely brake pipes on modern cars last well over 10 years in any case?
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I don't grease my brake pipes. Mine are covered in a plastic film which stopd damp. I do cover the exposed unions which are not protected with Dinitrol-- once.
I thought all brake lines were plastic covered or have I missed something?
madf
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Re waxing the floor to prevent corosion, paint it with protektakote or get it speedlined.
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The only time in 17 years of driving that I have ever greased brake pipes was to get my Allegro through its' MoT in about 1991/2, because a main car repair chain failed it on loads of items including 'excessive corrosion on brake pipes' which I didn't believe. so I wirebrushed them, smeared old oil on them and then threw dirt at them and took it to another garage. It passed and it was all ok for another 18 months until I sold it...to my mum, who I don't think ever suffered brake failure in the 2 years she had it :-)
Never cleaned a car underneath or jetted salt off or anything. Whilst I have owned a string of unsuccessful British built cars with very variable build quality, since going to Primeras they only seem to rust after about 10 years+ with no jetting off of salt etc.
I do check the oil, coolant, PAS fluid, brake & clutch fluid every often so though, every 2 months aprox,, ditto tyres and whoever it was mentioned about bald tyres on cars, they're right. In that game of "Who is going to aquaplane first on the M6 at 80mph+" I don't want to win it, whereas some people seem keen on doing so.....
cheers
Stu
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"I thought all brake lines were plastic covered or have I missed something?"
??????? I have to get my close up glasses on next time I go underneath :(
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Why waste time polishing your car and waxing its nether regions? It's a tool for a job that loses money irrespective of the amount of TLC you lavish on it.
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Why waste time polishing your car and waxing its nether regions? It's a tool for a job that loses money irrespective of the amount of TLC you lavish on it.
Becuase some of us enjoy and take a pride in the cars we own.
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My Escort is worth nothing, literally, but I still wax-oyl the underside every year and change the oil twice over that. It was garaged for 13 years and looks the better for it, and I only take it to a third party for the MoT.
The only area I'm lax is cleanliness. It'll get a wash once per month or two if lucky (particularly at this time of year) and I'd sooner see the engine bay covered in oil spillages, grime and wax, that way I know it's protected.
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Mike Farrow
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2 reasons cars don't come with complete service records:-
1) Your average mainstream car dealer will charge an absolute fortune for a basic oil change etc
2) The work is often carried out to poor standards or not at all
Personally I am happy to get the spanners out and do the essential items like oil changes, filters etc. There are some jobs I have to get a mechanic to do as I don't possess either the time, tools or expertise to tackle - e.g. cam belt change.
I think mainstream dealers can charge these rates because they get a lot of fleet cars in and they know they can charge what they like. Average Joe gets stung as a result.
Just my opinion.....
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2 reasons cars don't come with complete service records:- 1) Your average mainstream car dealer will charge an absolute fortune for a basic oil change etc 2) The work is often carried out to poor standards or not at all Personally I am happy to get the spanners out and do the essential items like oil changes, filters etc. There are some jobs I have to get a mechanic to do as I don't possess either the time, tools or expertise to tackle - e.g. cam belt change. I think mainstream dealers can charge these rates because they get a lot of fleet cars in and they know they can charge what they like. Average Joe gets stung as a result. Just my opinion.....
My main dealer, with my last car's 1st main service, couldn't be bothered to stamp the service history booklet and this has happened several times in the past with dealerships dealing with both Ford and Rover.
It does not bode well if they cannot be bothered to do even the most basic things related to a car's welfare and owner's satisfaction. Unfortunately, I'm now of that age where I do depend on the 'experts' carrying out my wishes etc.
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Oldgit....may I, with respect, draw your attention to: www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=42...2
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