I was in Cardiff yesterday and decided to come back overland to Manchester to have a bit of fun on the bends in the Legacy.
Somewhere in MidWales this 1974 MGB GT in absolutely A1 nick decides to pull out of side road in front of me forcing me to brake and then takes off at full pelt. I was already driving with "great gusto" so I carried on in that style and it was obvious that he was out to teach me what a real car can do....
I wiped the floor with him over the 20 or so miles we were together, OK on the straights they just don't corner as quick as the Legacy but my point is that he was giving it everything in a car that's over 30 years old and I suspect is his pride and joy - is that brave or stupid?
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Neither. Probably very fun though!
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Both stupid. Afraid I get rather prudish about racing on public roads.
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IanS
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My personal opinion is you are both stupid. When will people get away from this machismo image of driving everywhere with foot to the floor? Roads in mid-wales can be lethal and to drive with "great gusto" into bends is really trusting to luck that:-
a) you have the ability to control the car
b) some other looney is not doing exactly the same thing in the other direction and cannot control his/ her car
c) the car is set up correctly and properly maintained
Even with all the modern electronic limiting devices on todays vehicles there is a point where they will not be able to bail the driver out.
Don't take this message as a personal affront to your driving ability as I don't know what your abilities are but this may serve as a reminder to others who aren't so able.
As a professional competitive driver I would never consider doing this on normal roads, too many variables involved. Book yourself a track day instead. there are loads to be found
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Firstly I am trying to get my head round OK on the straights they just don't corner as quick as the Legacy
Secondly, an MGB GT, was a pile a poo, it handled like a pile off poo, the performance was a pile of poo, poo was better built, and poo is better looking.
Had I been the poo owner i would have waited for a 2CV had come along before I tried to flex my muscles.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Racing on a public road is illegal.
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Got it pretty much right there, TVM, except they don't really look that bad, unless they have those dreadful chromed spoked wheels.
There's nothing to prove these days by outrunning an MGB and the whole thing was pointless on the sort of road when any unsuspecting other driver might have been making their way innocently in the other direction.
So, stupid for both.
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Stupid I suppose, but I've done it more than once.
Cheers
DP
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Racing on the road in the right circumstances is great fun. You don't mention how busy the roads were, condition, or weather but I'll assume you thought it was safe enough to not endanger yourself or others.
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To be fair to poo cars, they were actually quite clean looking before they got "americanised" and tarted up.
To the general "racing on the public road" argument, If the conditions are right (visibility being the main one) dont see a problem with it, and indeed have indulged a bit my self.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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If the conditions are right (visibility being the main one) dont see a problem with it, and indeed have indulged a bit my self.
Main one round our way are the '40mph massive' who are under the impression that it is an appropriate speed whatever the road/situation. Definitely don't want to come steaming round a corner and find yourself rapidly approaching one of these pink fluffy dices.
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It was in Wales those four cyclists were killed by a car driver. Had either you or the other driver killed anybody in the circumstances you describe you would both be charged with death by reckless and both of you would be sent to prison, the courts quite rightly frown on cars racing on the public highway. Next time the red mist descends think long and hard of the repercussions if the unexpected happens.
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'Red mist'? 'Racing'?
Two cars driving briskly along in company and trying either to get away or keep up are not racing, and it is most unlikely that fully adult drivers will experience anything resembling 'red mist'.
Neither brave nor stupid, as described, but one would have to have been there to know.
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It's almost insulting to the people who were killed and injured in that tragedy that you bring it up here with the only connection being 'it was in Wales'.
The car in question skidded on black ice, had three defective tyres (although these were not assumed to have been connected with the crash) and was being driven beneath the speed limit.
Exactly which of those circumstances connects it with this thread? You've used real peoples deaths in order to try to sensationalise an argument and to be honest I find that somewhat offensive.
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RF,
A bit of negativity there, we had one in the family back in the 70s (when the old man was trying to live to the "crab" stereotype of driving "sports" cars) I can assure you that Poo smelt a lot worse than an MGB GT - I can't think of anything more positive than that though.
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"I wiped the floor with him over the 20 or so miles we were together, "
Well, not if it took you 20 or so miles, you didn't! - especially not in a modern 4wd car with at least half as much horsepower again as the MGB (a massive 98, if memory serves!)
Plus, admitting racing on a highway on a public forum doesn't strike me asparticularly bright - but then neither does the racing, particularly if the skill levels are such as to take 20 miles to 'wipe the floor with' an old MGB!
Ye Gods.
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MGB power to weight ratio must be about Yaris level. Now an MGC is a different matter....
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Nsar hasn't metioned anything in his post about racing!
Racing would suggest overtaking each other numerous times, that's not mentioned anywhere.
It sounds to me like, the MGB driver having a nice drive out to clear the cobwebs, with a Legacy driver following along.
So all in all a que of two, free flowing traffic.
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MGB
Max. Speed - 103 mph
Acceleration - 0-60mph 12.2 secs
Yaris (1.3VVTi)
Max Speed 105
Acceleration 0-60mph 11.5
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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TVM: its even slower! Not a bad guess though.
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1969 Mk1 ford Capri 1600GT (slobber)
Top Speed 104mph
0-60 11.5 seconds
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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1969 austin 1300 GT
0-Quarter-mile 19.70s
Top speed 148 km/h (92 mph)
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I might have known the "I never ever speed me" brigade would be out in force so before anyone gets too hot under the collar, 30mph and 40mph speed limits were closely observed, but do you know what, on long straights and sweeping bends we went over the speed limits, a bit like you do. Probably more often than you care to admit.
If I'd wanted to race him I would have gone past him. I didn't because it wasn't a race it was two people old enough to know better enjoying the road and if someone is trying hard (of their own choice) to go as quick as they can/dare but still unable to make ground when the other has loads left then, without ever getting close to someone's bumper, you can safely say you have wiped floor with them. Relative not absolute speed.
There are some very vivid imaginations here today.
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Sounds like a well driven MGB and a poorly driven Legacy to me NSAR
"I could have taken him honest mum"
(said with a VBG and a TIC of course)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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MGB power to weight ratio must be about Yaris level. Now an MGC is a different matter....
A 1968 ish MGC coupe is the most desirable of the lot however the engine was very heavy, the alloy 3.5ltr V8 in the later MGB V8 was much lighter, lighter that the 1.8 4cyl, so gave it much better balance.
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It was a V8 on an old M plate.
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So it was a MGB GT V8 with 50% more power and a bit less weight than standard MGB, that should reduce the performance gap between you. I have a Stag which probably has similar performance to the MGBV8. I love driving it but would not compare the performance with a fairly high performance 4WD modern car, which I assume the Legacy is. The classic car gives its owner satisfaction in many other ways. How can you compare a V8 burble with that horrible off beat noise a Impreza with drainpipe exhaust makes? IMHO of course!!
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But would you give it a good thrashing or would you drive it like it was made of china - which was my original question by the way.
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I would not thrash it but drive it within its capabilities, as I would want it to last another 30 years. I would not drive it in a situation to knowingly damage it.
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Both. He almost cetainly took off at full pelt because, realising the foolishness of pulling out the way he did ,he then tried to 'justify' his apparent hurry by haring off. I'd be willing to bet if he'd seen you earlier and not pulled out in from he would not have continued at the pace he did. Hmm ?
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Brave or stupid? Somewhat stupid for pulling out and causing you to brake (perhaps he was kicking himself for his misjudgement/ observational error). I wouldn't call him stupid for driving an immaculate old car with enthusiasm. If something breaks, get it repaired. Surely theres more to classic car ownership than just polishing them? If I had spent several thousand pounds on it and spend 'x' hundred pounds per year to maintain and insure it; I think I would want to at least occasionally get some enjoyment out of my investment.
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Nsar
Reading your post again, yes the MGB GT driver made an error to pull out. Is it possible, however, that he felt the need to accelerate hard in order to put a comfortable distance between him and you because of a possible road rage incident. I'm not saying that you would, but could be his reaction...
Second, how was it 'obvious' to you that he was 'out to teach me what a real car can do'? Just curious?
I think you (and the other driver) were stupid if you were breaking the limits and putting other motorists at risk for your selfish enjoyment. Better 30 minutes late in this world than thirty years early in the next...
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Or, you could look at it as:
MG driver pulls out and thinks - "Uh-oh - misjudged this a bit" and decides to floor it so as not to cause inconvenience to Nsar. However, Nsar keeps up and Mr MG goes "Ohhh - wise guy eh?" and decides to drive....making good progress and seeing whether Nsar keeps up.
Don't tell me you've never approched a wide sweeping NSL road and grinned at the prospect of blowing someone off behind you!
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Yes, but in a 1.2 Punto, a mobility scooter is about my limit!
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Multiple choice question - tick whichever of the following statements most closely decribes the reported events:
1) I tailed an amazing MG yesterday but my car wasn't fast enough to overtake him.
2) I thrashed an old MG yesterday and left him standing. These old boy racers are carp compared with a decent modern car.
3) I was tailed by an idiot in a Legacy yesterday, but the old "B" saw him off. This modern carp hasn't got the stamina to overtake a proper car.
4) Once in a while I enjoy a bit of a contest on the road.
5) I never race on a public road
6) I enjoy Sunday afternoon treasure hunts and always stick to the speed limits.
Irrelevant information:
1906 Stanley Rocket steam car
top speed 127 mph
0-100 about 10 seconds
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">0-100 about 10 seconds<" Wow!!!
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Add another.
I was caught on the A470 by Dyfed Powys Police's covert speed camera and I am now very sad.
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I wonder if in 30 years, someone in an 'Eco Mobile GTI' (or whatever) will be able to say they even saw a Subaru Legacy on the road, let alone brag(?) about taking 20 miles to catch up with one.
Folks may decry old MG's (not me, I own one) but a lot of you are knowledgeable about them....
Odd that?
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Folks may decry old MG's (not me, I own one) but a lot of you are knowledgeable about them.... Odd that?
Most people remember them because you had to crawl past the things in scrapyards to get to proper breakers like anglia"s and escorts,The mg"s were a pain as the front wings used to flap out and rip your trousers as you passed the things ;-)
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">0-100 about 10 seconds<" Wow!!!
In about 1908 a Stanley was estimated to have reached 150 mph before crashing. It wasn't officially timed, so never counted as a world land speed record, unlike the 127 mph recorded earlier. Needless to say engine development was somewhat ahead of suspension, steering and braking technology.
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Another scenario
MGB driver pulls out from junction misjudging the speed of an oncoming Legacy - possibly due to Legacy speeding.
MGB driver floors it to ensure no accident and spends the next 20 or so miles trying to get away from what he believes is a road rage attack!
Don't jump to conclusions abvout the other dirver's intentions.
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Bear in mind that if it's not a factory V8 but a conversion, then it could have considerably more horses that you might think (imagine a tuned 4.2 rover engine...). Even the factory jobs had in excess of 150bhp, and in a light body that equates to 0 - 60 of about 7.8s (if I remember rightly).
As the owner of a'pile of poo' MGB GT (albeit a standard 1.8 and 1971 so chrome bumbers), I will say that while it's not very fast and handles like a sub-post office, it puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. People watch it go past (slightly sporty exhaust helps), and often come up and say hello, what a nice car, I used to have one etc (characterised by men of a certain age). That never happened when I had a SEAT Leon Cupra, which was much faster, better handling and warm/cold when appropriate. People don't own classic cars to just polish them (unless they're owned just as trophies)- they own them to enjoy the experience of driving, tinkering and being just a little bit different. Oh, and I always get let out of junctions (try not to pull out on legacies, mind). I ought to add, I'm not a chap of a certain age, I'm only just older than my B.
So there.
Alex.
--
Dr Alex Mears
MG BGT 1971
If you are in a hole stop digging...unless
you are a miner.
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Fair enough Alex. The one my dad had was a genuine pile of poo from brand new, leaky (despite a tin roof) and handled like a hammer - most of the ones around here have been re-built to a better standard that BL managed.
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