This is n't a complaint about the speed of these crawlers but a question about their safety.
We were 2 cars back from one on the A1 ten days ago. The caravan was driving at 50 mph and we'd temporarily found ourselves blocked in the inside lane. Suddenly the caravan got the wobbles and less than 10 seconds later it had tipped over in spectacular fashion. Fortunately, the towing RAV4 stayed upright - although it had been wrenched around by 300 degrees - and the occupants were OK although shaken.
What concerned me was that I could n't see what the driver had done wrong, the road conditions were good, there was no wind and he was driving at a sensible speed for towing. How safe are these things? Are they subject to MOTs?
This was n't an isolated case ........ as we drove back the following weekend, there were several traffic reports of caravans turning turtle, each one causing major delays.
_______
IanS
|
In my experience speed is often a factor but more important is the corrective action taken by the driver. However 50 mph on a RAV4 doesn't sound too fast. There are two schools of thought, not mutually exclusive, about what to do.once snaking starts. One is slow down using absolute minimal braking and the second is to speed up to tug the rig back into line. I ued to find the latter more effective but when towing at 70+ mph (yes, illegal I know...foreign country of course) sometimes I had to use the former, as more speed would have been downright dangerous.
I guess maybe the driver panicked and braked hard so the caravan jacknifed, rather than the wobble taking control of the car as is often the case.
A badly loaded or an overloaded 'van will be more prone to snaking.
The scary thing (apart from what you describe) is hte way the entire caravan can self destruct, leaving all your possessions and dirty laundry all over the motorway.
No MOT or test requirement, no special license required to tow (or did that change recently??)
|
|
I have never actually towed anything in my life but I do recall that is fairly important to have the caravan correctly loaded, so that there is a 100kg downforce, as measured at the caravan's tow hitch. If it is less than this or, even worse an upwards force, obviously the handling of the towing combine could be badly affected. This and a gusty X-wind may have caused the incident described.
|
It seems to me that caravans have poor suspension.
When following them, they sway and wobble, bounce up and down, sway side to side, they seem to have no damping. Do the big silver ones they have in America do this? they look better built!
|
|
|
Yet more rubbish from someone who doesn't know what they're on about!
Very few cars or even 4 x 4's can manage 100Kg nose weight, it will be in the handbook but most cars typically are in the 50-75Kg bracket. IT must never be negative always positive.
|
|
|
|
|
I think there are several possible factors;
1) Wind, or side wind from passing vehicles. 50 mph may be safe on a calm day and no traffic. But even a light gusty wind or a passing HGV can set up an eddy that causes a wobble. You need to be concentrating all the time to catch the early signs of a wobble and take action - usually easing off the gas a fraction. Most caravanners just press on at the legal limit or beyond and don't seem to give the caravan a care.
2) Wheelbase of the towing vehicle. The shorter the wheelbase, the greater effect a slight wobble in the towing vehicle has on the caravan.
3) Degree of overhang of the tow bar behind the rear wheels. The longer this is, the more exaggerated any wobble.
4) Weight distribution in the caravan might have been wrong. This has a major influence on stability. If you just throw in all the gear by the door it will end up nose-heavy. 2 full gas bottles on the front need compensating weight at the back. A stack of bikes on the back need more weight at the front.
Then of course there are the usual service considerations. eg uneven brakes can start a wobble.
It is hard work towing a caravan, and needs constant vigilance watching the van in the window for incipient wobble, being alive to the feel of the steering (too much power steering doesn't help) and watching other vehicles and anticipating side-draughts or conversely gaps between gusts.
|
Ashok raises an interesting point. As we inched past the upturned caravan I could n't help notice the rudimentary suspension/axle arrangement.
_______
IanS
|
|
The RAV4 could have been underweight for the caravan, the car shouldn't really be more than 85% of the caravans weight.
|
|
The caravan shouldn't be more than 85% of the car's weight?
|
In this case the caravan was only small. Probably a 2 berth (or whatever the term is).
_______
IanS
|
|
|
Rubbish this is only advisory & lots of other things dictate towed weight.
|
|
|
|
|
I have in the past towed a caravan, now have a trailer tent. From my experience I would say a lot is down to servicing or the lack of it. Most responsible owners will have their caravan checked annually which includes a gas and electric check as well as the mechanics of the van. However many do not and it is probably quite common for vans not be checked for over ten years. Often things like tyres, where the tread depth is ok but the rubber is perished, Wheel bearings are shot. Brakes never dismantled to be inspected or the towing coupling are never serviced/inspected. Another factor is the nose weight of the caravan, which is so easy to check with a £10 measurement arm.Nose weight is often overlooked but easily over loaded. Regarding snaking a stabilizer arm for £50 often allieviates the problem. Did anyone see the Top Gear program where they basically took the pink fluffy dice out of caravanners. The Caravan club obviously had no sense of humour looking by their wesite about the program
|
|
The above scenario of caravans never being serviced reminds me of my parent's ex neighbour. Their caravan spent 50 weeks a year going nowhere (sometimes more, it was a real waste of money and an eyesore as it was stored in their front garden). When it was moved it was simply moved off the front, loaded up, attached to the car and driven off. They had it for well over ten years and the only 'maintenance' was to get the lights back working due to the terminals rusting. Wire wool and a dab of brown sauce sorted that one out. I'm sure they weren't alone so it's no wonder accidents happen.
|
They should be subjected to an annual MOT type test IMO. This would ensure essentials such as tyres, suspension, brakes and lights were fully operational.
You see quite a few basket cases being pulled along the roads.
|
I agree about maintenance, or lack of it. But I still say a lot is down to sheer lack of appreciation by the driver of what is actually happening behind. If you drive with the windows shut, music on, children getting exited about the holiday, and are eager to press on at the legal speed limit or over it, you just are not aware of wind and other dangers, and simply forget there's a caravan there until things go wrong. Panic then converts a minor wobble into a major oscilation, and the thing has turned over in seconds.
It's very instructive to try towing a heavy trailer coupled with a traditional draw bolt rather than a ball and socket. It's noisy, and you hear the coupling clanging about, but you can't help being aware of what the trailer is trying to do. When you brake, the trailer bashes into the pin and you feel the nudge in the back. If the trailer wobbles in a gust of wind or a bump in the road, you feel the sideways blow at the back. it's a bit like having a loose oil drum or a baby elephant rolling about in the boot - you drive in a way that calms it down rather than setting it off. I don't think a lot of caravanners realise what their caravan is actually doing or the effect it is having on the car.
|
"I don't think a lot of caravanners realise what their caravan is actually doing or the effect it is having on the car."
Cliff, I'm sure you are right - in which case should there be some kind of testing of drivers before they are allowed to tow these things?
_______
IanS
|
should there be some kind of testing of drivers before they are allowed to tow these things?
In my opinion, absolutely. It seems insane to me that you can turn your car into an articulated vehicle, drastically alter its handling characteristics, then load it full of your nearest and dearest and drive off down the public highway on a standard car license.
I think a test should be mandatory before you can tow anything on the public road.
Cheers
DP
|
|
In theory I agree with the logic of having a test. But in practice I don't think tests actually weed out anybody who shouldn't be driving or whatever. Anybody can pass a test, and then sling everything they have supposedly "learned" out of the window. There are people who are temperamentally unsuited to being airline pilots or possessing firearms, and they are stopped from holding licences. But it is a basic human right to drive a car, so in the end everyone will be passed. It just ends in more red tape, for no real improvement.
|
|
Yup amazed that more people don't use stabilisers, when I towed a caravan despite being properly loaded I found the stabiliser made the whole rig much more comfortable. Certainly much more pleasant for the passengers in the car.
|
Unless you're towing with something very powerful most cars don't have the power to pull out of a snake by accelerating. We lost a trailer like this as the muppet we lent it to thought he could accelerate out of a snake & this was an alfa towing a car trailer! He then got out of phase with the steering & span the whole lot into the centre reservation of the M4. Trailer was trashed, Alfa looked secondhand & car on trailer was unharmed.
|
"2 full gas bottles on the front need compensating weight at the back. A stack of bikes on the back need more weight at the front."
No, that's not the way to do it. Doing that increases the momentum around the central axle, and is dangerous as it can exaggerate a snake. The weight should really be loaded centrally over the axle as much as possible.
Using a stabiliser bar should be compulsory.
--
RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
|
Caravans should be subject to an annual MOT test and the drivers should have to pass a special test. As part of the MOT the caravan should have its own reg number and should pay road tax dependent on size. Oh and for the people who drive white transit vans and pull caravans without any plates on them - confiscate the caravan.
Toodle Pip
|
|
|
"2 full gas bottles on the front need compensating weight at the back. A stack of bikes on the back need more weight at the front." No, that's not the way to do it. Doing that increases the momentum around the central axle, and is dangerous as it can exaggerate a snake.
Yes, I know ideally. I just meant that in loading the caravan thought should be given to weight distribution and nose weight. Of course ideally heavy things should be as close to the axle(s) as possible. But gas bottles tend to become virtual fixtures at the front, and bike racks obviously go on the back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have towed box trailors in the past. Besides all the answers already given I know of another problem.
One factor that can also start an accelerated snake is deeply rutted roads. The width of the ruts of HGV's is usually wider than a caravan, so one side of the axle can be going up a rut and the otherside is going down. Trying to correct the start of the snake means it can easliy be accelerated by an unwarry driver. These snakes are particualy nasty and happen very quickly. They are also quite common from my experience on major HGV routes.
Was the road deeply rutted?
--
Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
|
"Was the road deeply rutted?"
No ....... as far as I recall it was pretty standard, no tramlines or anything.
To add to the interesting debate, do drivers of cars towing caravans pay higher insurance or, indeed, do they have to declare the fact that they are towing at all? Are you there Mark?
_______
IanS
|
|
I cannot understand where people get the idea that a Rav 4 or any other SHORT wheelbase vehicle makes a good towcar. Ok a big Range Rover or Land Rover have a relatively short wheelbase but they have weight. IMO you need a long wheelbase to have a stable setup and as said above weight distribution in the caravan mostly in the centre with a bias towards slight noseweight. I may be wrong but in 15 years of caravanning, following this theory, I have never had an inkling of snaking (with or without a stabiliser).
|
Incorrect loading of the caravan (weight distribution etc)
Lack of a stabilizer.
Both are major contributory factors of wobble. If a caravan sways something is wrong.
|
I used to tow caravans. We bought a large caravan which was gorossly unstable at speeds in excess of 50mph. With a stabiliser it was rock solid up to the legal limit (and some beyond).
Stabilisers make a fantastic difference and are easy to fit and use. As posted baove they should be compulsory and imo any intelligent driver towing a heavy caravan would use one.
But "intelligent" and "driver" are usually not synonymous.
And I can assure you as a caravanner, I did not drive slowly. My XJ6 used to do 15mpg on long runs tho:-(
madf
|
This doesn't just apply to caravans. I've seen many a car trailer in all sorts of difficulty.
Agree will all previous: stabilizers should be compulsory.
|
What's interesting here is the enormous lack of knowledge on the subject...me included. What most people forget and CliffPope has covered is that towing something is enormously different to just driving the car on its own.
I thought i knew about towing, can reverse a trailer at speed (childhood practice with a tractor and trailer), yet frightened myself silly when towing my old car for 200 miles a few years back ( Rover 600 towing Triumph 2000 mk1). I'd changed the oil in the auto gear box as i knew that would take some stick, put more pressure in the rear tyres, loaded the trailer evenly etc, etc....... but allowed my speed to sneak up (eventually) to about 68mph and got the world's worst wobble on, when overtaking an articulated lorry......... the whole of the M3 stopped behind me thinking I was going to come to grief.
I kept thinking 'drive through it' 'Pull it out' 'don't brake'......... which mostly i did, but I sure as hell wasn't going to speed up i was frightened enough already.... and it was completely my fault...too fast with the weight on the back.
Bottom line is it's like everything, you've got to go in with your eyes open and research what you're doing. If you don't you'll potentially come to grief... and it'll be your own fault.
How many people with a 'van just hitch it up and drive, with no further thought......... frightening.
On a more humorous note, as a kid the school bus journey used to be a giggle in the summer, you'd often meet 'vanners who couldn't reverse....... i've seen absolute chaos......... the bus driver would eventually get his paper out and read it...... and i've seen other motorists approach the 'vanner and unhitch the caravan before pushing it into a field, so the 'vanner could then reverse. Used to be hilarious.
|
On a more humorous note, as a kid the school bus journey used to be a giggle in the summer, you'd often meet 'vanners who couldn't reverse
The first day I ever towed anything on the road I had to reverse in between two artics at a service station. The drivers were sitting in their cabs laughing and indeed it must have been hilarious. But all of a sudden it clicked that you just have to move the bottom of the steering wheel in the direction you want the trailer to go. From that day I could do it pretty well.
|
|
|
|
I read the other day that you can now get plastic gas cylinders - I dread to think how they would cope with a high speed smash - at least with the steel bottles you know they are as tough as battleships.
|
|
I used to service my caravan every year regardless of whether I'd used it or not and I was once stopped with the caravan, in Norfolk, where police were doing roadside spot checks on caravans. The plod then proceded to tell me my caravan handbrake was no good because he could pull it right up vertical. I tried to explain to him that this was part of the design to prevent the van braking whilst reversing but he wouldn't have it. He gave me a verbal warning, told me to get it fixed and let me go.
|
|
|
|
>>One factor that can also start an accelerated snake is deeply rutted roads. The width of the ruts of HGV's is usually wider than a caravan, so one side of the axle can be going up a rut and the otherside is going down. Trying to correct the start of the snake means it can easliy be accelerated by an unwarry driver.
I saw this scenario right in front of me a couple of years back on the M3 just north of basingstoke. Deeply rutted inner lane, Volvo 960 pulling a fairly small caravan. Went from slight wobble to bouncing sideways off armco in a few seconds.
|
|
|
|
