Are these so called Motor Journalists that stupid or what.
Example: Today in the Sunday Express and in previous Auto Express
A feature about the new Fiat Sedici and talk of fiat doing this and fiat doing that, then in the logbook lowdown. The rivals they claim:- Suzuki Grand Vitara, Hyundai Tucson, Kia Sportage.
But who makes and manufacture this Model ??
Answer: Suzuki in Hungary
Suzuki markets this themselves as a SX4, same engine, same interior, same radio and same everthing except the Logo Badge's and Hub caps.
So why do these Journalists go off on the beaten track talking about bigger vehicles as rivals than its sister rival.
The same happened a few years ago with the Ford Fiesta, when Mazda put their Logo on them.
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Probably because they are stupid and dont really care,but think we are even more stupid.I think its called contempt.
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Road test of Suzuki SX4 at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=210 And yes, it mentions the FIAT Sedici. HJ
This is the first of many editorials I've read or seen on TV that has it right.
Well Done !!
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What on earth is going on in the motor industry these days? It's a skimpy network like the internet. Bodes ill for jobs in Europe.
Are these bulletproof chaindrive 4 cylinder Alfa diesels really Kia truck engines?
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Motoring journalists are just that ~ journalists. Their expertise is journalism. In general they're certainly not technically minded. You've only got to listen to the waffle talked about the difference (in isolation) between diesel and petrol engine torque.
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L\'escargot.
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Got it right there, L'escargot, and I was one - a motoring journalist that is. I liked to think that I wrote with a modicum of technical knowledge and quite wide experience but eventually I gave up trying to swim against the tide.
I have long since stopped buying motoring magazines because of today's dismal standard of writing.
A couple of weeks ago I came across a 1990 copy of Classic Cars (edited in those days by journalist and successful racing driver Tony Dron) and found it packed with authoritative writing on interesting subjects. How things have changed.
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Many articles these days are just re-written publicity shots!
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IanS
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Core competance for a journalist is to be a "quick study". You need to understand a subject rapidly and distill what you've learned.
The result is that most journos often get it wrong with stuff that's really complex. They understand more than most people, but mastering complex subtleties isn't in the brief and people who are able to do that wouldn't (on the whole), make good journos.
As a result, stories on subjects that one really knows a lot about are usually wrong...
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Yup, yup, yup and yup.
I know at least one very prominent and successful motoring hack who is very bright but, I suspect, not really all that keen on cars any longer despite enthusiasm in youth.
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Well, I tried to master complex subjects because I believed I owed it to my readers.
If you produce a publication on a potentially complex subject then surely you owe it to your potential readers to staff it with experts?
That is, of course, if you can find any...
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Most modern British auto journalism is dire. At one time you got cutaway diagrams of engines and detailed explanations of how things worked. Now they are more interested on whether the ashtray slides on ball-bearings and whether the radio has an MP3 input.
Its all part of the general 'dumbing down' of the country when it comes to anything technical - typical 'style over substance' stuff.
IMHO the German mags are much better - the average German has a bit more between the ears and can understand torque curves etc.
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I always laugh at the motoring reviews in my local papers. These are done by the same "journalist" who will also cover the local garden fete and the "sad story of the week".
Surprised some of them know one end of the car from the other. Most of the feature is obviously taken, word for word, from manufacturers press releases.
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"Its all part of the general 'dumbing down' of the country when it comes to anything technical - typical 'style over substance' stuff."
I stopped buying car mags when they started using the word "twist" to describe torque, and then replaced that with "churn" i.e. "the 1.6 litre engine now pumps out 150 nm of churn."
Childish and repetitive.
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"At one time you got cutaway diagrams of engines and detailed explanations of how things worked."
I?m with you on this Aprilia. I do this kind of thing for a weekly motoring magazine and I find I?m constantly at loggerheads with the senior editor or the publisher. I may be asked to design a graphic that illustrates the variation in performance of an engine from running in until 150,000 km. Invariably I will be told "It?s too complicated, our readers will never understand it" So I?ll delete some data and simplify it only to be told again "It?s too complicated, our readers will never understand it". And so I?ll erode more data, delete more graphics and this process will be repeated until we?re left with a big simple pie chart with a slice removed in bright primary colours. I get so angry and frustrated. It?s demoralising for me, and it?s crap for the consumer. My argument is that if a man is capable of taking a hard-earned coin out of his pocket and buying a magazine, then he is capable of reading and digesting well presented data. Their argument is that clever people will buy specialist engineering publications. Magazines have to be idiot-friendly even though the idiot may only represent only 1% of the readership.
Back in the UK I used to illustrate KS1&2 series science text books for children and I was doing far more complex and in-depth diagrams, I remember once doing a cutaway of an electric drill showing gears and motor.
The problem isn?t that motoring journalists are stupid, but that magazines think YOU are.
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"The problem isn?t that motoring journalists are stupid, but that magazines think YOU are."
Absolutely spot on BBD. I always believed that with things like this, if the general standard and complexity of information is high and to some extent difficult, then you tend to rise to it so that you can understand it. This takes time and effort and sometimes willpower, but is always worth it.
Sadly in our quick information age, the imparting of any knowledge has to be simple, basic and instantaneous.
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Nice thoughts, but I'm afraid there is a reason why newspapers like the Sun have the highest circulation, and its not because your average buyer likes a mental challenge or wants to improve his knowledge.
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It?s a funny one, the Sun, it?s bought and read by a varied demographic. Sit on the tube and watch who?s reading it, it?s not just builders but business men, secretaries, media types, students, even school kids - the only thing they have in common is they want to kill that dreary commute.
I think it?s a slightly different kettle of fish if you?re subscribing to a car mag, you?re motivation isn?t the same. Plus it only comes out once a week, it?s more expensive by several factors, you look forward to it and have certain expectations. Least that?s how I see it...
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>>and have certain expectations
Ok, fair point - *IF* the car magazine sees its primary audience as people like you. The problem is that you're probably in the minority, and the ones who want the simple fluffy stuff are in the majority.
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Autocar writer giving advice to reader (10May06):
"Because I do it for a living, I pin a Post-it note on the monitor with the amount of money I'm going to earn from the article..."
(Tongue may have been in cheek!)
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'Twist'?' 'Churn'? Blimey.
I gave up on a magazine article back along when the writer said it was 'time to dial in some steering input'. I think he meant 'turn the wheel'.
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'Twist'?' 'Churn'? Blimey.
I've just spotted maximum torque being called "pulling power (lb ft)" in a popular motoring magazine. The author clearly doesn't know that power is power and torque is torque.
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L\'escargot.
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I pin a Post-it note on the monitor
Obviously an observant chap, the Post it notes I use have glue on them and don't need to be pinned. Kind of answers the original question if that's an example.
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Motoring journalists say, whatever the company who last treated them to a lavish outing want them to say !
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I have a subscription bought for me every christmas for Car magazine by my Bro
They are nothing if predictable with every group test involving BMW i never bother reading them as you know who always comes top
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I have a subscription bought for me every christmas for Car magazine by my Bro They are nothing if predictable with every group test involving BMW i never bother reading them as you know who always comes top
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Know what you mean, I am fairly pro BMW but I do not think they are the be all of motoring. Everyone says they are the ultimate driving machine, but thats only true if you are a driver who likes to drive on the limit a lot of the time. I have had several new BM's, and found that I couldn't always be sure where that limit was, whereas I find a lot of FWD cars more to my taste for everyday driving.
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Motoring journalists say, whatever the company who last treated them to a lavish outing want them to say !>>
In the case of a genuine motoring correspondent, who maintains editorial independence, that is complete hogwash.
If you are talking about a "motoring correspondent" who works for a small local free or paid for newspaper (more often than not a non-journalist) and whose output is controlled by the advertising rather than the editorial department, then you are very likely correct.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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"Ok, fair point - *IF* the car magazine sees its primary audience as people like you. The problem is that you're probably in the minority, and the ones who want the simple fluffy stuff are in the majority."
Unfortunately, you are dead right.
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I don't buy any of the motoring mags, but if I see one in the dentist etc I have a browse and note that they are packed with expensive-looking ads. It does make me wonder how objective the roadtests are....
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I don't think it's hogwash at all.
Why else is it that every newly-introduced model is described by specialist motoring journalists as wonderful, a great step forward and solving all the shortcomings of previous models, then a few months, maybe a year, later they have nothing but criticism for it. I can't believe it's all technical progress - it must, at least to some extent, be writers singing for their supper.
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They can be a bit imprudent and certainly don't always sing for their supper. I must phrase this carefully.
Some years ago through connections I had a sort of entree to 'a prominent and big-selling car magazine'. The editor at the time was a nice young fellow and an enthusiast, who quite liked my stuff. They gave me a not very glamorous car to test for a week and I did to order as it were a rather boring and misconceived long piece on a motoring-related topic. Having worked as a journalist for many years and being a car enthusiast, I hoped for greater things.
Before greater things could happen I was swept away in an internal purge headed by the said editor and including all 'his' latest contacts. Just before the night of the long knives the magazine came out with a front cover insulting to 'a major German manufacturer', the magazine having been irritated by a faulty example of its latest product.
As soon as I saw the cover my heart sank. I was assured that there was no onnection between the cover and the editor's demise. I did not believe these assurances, and still don't.
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I send out the odd press release every now and then. I have had more than a few calls from group ad managers etc along the lines of "did you see that nice bit of editorial we gave you last week/month, so how about a nice r/h facing page in the June issue", of course it is a sales ploy however I think I have noticed that the bigger spenders on advertising get more column inches, surely not a coincidence. I am not sure that there is such a thing as true editorial independence these days.
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>>more than a few calls from group ad managers >>
>>I am not sure that there is such a thing as true editorial independence these days.>>
Editorial and advertising departments are separate entities - the advertising staff will be using every possible method to try and attract business...:-)
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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I hear what everybody is saying in this thread, but you are people with an above average interest/knowledge who represent only a small proportion of the readership of most special interest magazines.
The style of journalism may be derivative these days, but that has more to do with publishing corporates adopting cheap editorial formulas than it does with supposedly stupid journalists.
Incidentally, I'll defend accurate simplification to the hilt: there is no sin greater in journalism than to tell an important story in a language your readers do not understand.
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latest contacts. Just before the night of the long knives the magazine came out with a front cover insulting to 'a major German manufacturer', the magazine having been irritated by a faulty example of its latest product.
I think i know the magazine your on about Lud, the said car was represented on the front cover as a certain type of citrus fuit!
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Salaam aleikum mm... I think I have to say here 'I couldn't possibly comment', or sssshh! or something of the sort.
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Ali coom salam Lud on my way home tonight enshala
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