Also, does anyone know whether you can get different types of ramps? My 306 is a sporty one, so I scrape the bejesus out of my front bumper unless I use wood.
Most car ramps are pretty similar - i find using a couple of short planks of wood as an approach ramp works well in saving the bumper scraping
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Most car ramps are pretty similar - i find using a couple of short planks of wood as an approach ramp works well in saving the bumper scraping
Yep that's what I improvised with today! Just wondered if there was a more professional approach. Guess not!
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I don't trust the goons at most of these fast-fit places. I've heard far too many horror stories. Just this weekend my mate recovered a 'new' Mini... The owner had (the previous day!) bought a new pair of tyres. These are run-flats of course. The fast fit place he got them from hadn't fitted them properly and they'd come of the rims whilst he was out driving!
Most of the fast-fit places are all about fast profit. Typically the manager is given a target of last year's figures +10%. They like things like tracking adjustments (nearly all profit) - anything with a high labour content. The oil changes are loss leaders to get you through the door and they do them as fast as possible. Don't be surprised if the undertray is left off, or fasteners missing. Don't think they'll be using genuine manfrs filters either. I heard of a Grand Vitara that had the wrong filter fitted (thread dia. too big) 5 miles down the road the filter popped off and most of its oil was pumped out.
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I don't trust the goons at most of these fast-fit places. I've heard far too many horror stories....
Oof - that was an 'eyebrow raiser'.
Maybe I'll give it a miss then...
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>>I don't trust the goons at most of these fast-fit places.
I couldn't agree more.
I'm always amazed at how much support such places get in the back room. People here agonize over which car to buy, where to buy it, what polish to use, what type of gauge to use for their tyres, and then go and trust their pride and joy to "the goons at most of these fast-fit places". Penny wise, pound foolish is the proverb that springs to mind.
All garages make mistakes - none is immune. However, having repaired/rectified a number of fast fit bodged cars, I wouldn't trust them to work on my wheelbarrow!
Number_Cruncher
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I do most of the work on my cars, but National can carry on doing my fully-synthetic Oil/Filter changes for £20 (including my top-up oil!) as they've done a good job so far.
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Looks like I'll have to 'treat' myself to an oil suction pump, if only to cut the job time in half. Messing around with ramps, and pouring the old oil into a barrel and cleaning up must account for half the job time.
The 306 is good as you can access the filter by just popping the header tank off it's mountings.
Hmmmm...a 'rampless' oil change...
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An oil suction pump is likely to leave most of what you want to get rid of still in the sump.
I use National's Ormskirk outlet for the £15 oil and filter change for my VW.
I watch the work being done, chat to who ever is doing it and have always been impressed by the thoroughness and efficiency shown. I even get the balance of the five litres allowed (my car takes 4.6 litres), although I never had to top up between changes.
The faat that no topping up is required has applied to two previous VWs, the first two being manufactured in 1989 and 1990, and none has ever leaked oil. That's good because the front area of my property is paved with light grey flagstones.
The oil and filter change takes up about half-an-hour at a price I can't buy the oil and filter for at virtually any of my local motor factors.
What's more I don't have to get dirty doing it myself or take the used oil to the council's recycling centre.
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>>I don't trust the goons at most of these fast-fit places. I couldn't agree more. I'm always amazed at how much support such places get in the back room. People here agonize over which car to buy, where to buy it, what polish to use, what type of gauge to use for their tyres, and then go and trust their pride and joy to "the goons at most of these fast-fit places". Penny wise, pound foolish is the proverb that springs to mind. All garages make mistakes - none is immune. However, having repaired/rectified a number of fast fit bodged cars, I wouldn't trust them to work on my wheelbarrow!
Same goes for the Dealers most of the time too though, I think if you're going to get goons (ala fast fit) or apprentices, to which the dealers trust most of the fast fit type jobs, then you might as well use the goons as it's cheaper. I personally do my own servicing and repairs, except when forced by conditions of warranty not to, and don't trust anyone else.
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Well, the dealers are likely to use the correct oil filter for the car (not a 'second line' filter made down to a very low price).
The other thing to consider is that you won't find many time served mechanics at a fast fit place; in fact most of the guys there won't have had much in the way of training at all - not even as much as an apprentice in a regular garage. Training costs money and gives the man his passport to a better paid job in the trade.
Much depends on who you actually get doing the job - I've no doubt there are one or two blokes working for those chains who are capable of doing it properly. In general I keep away though - and let others get stung for the overpriced shocks, brakes, and the dodgy servicing.
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This might be a good thread to hi-jack for my question.
The digital indicator on my dash says it?s full of oil but checking the dipstick I just can?t see a definite, obvious line of oil between max and min even after I?ve wiped it with a tissue and whipped it in and out again. I did this about 10 times at the weekend on the flat with a cold engine in bright sunshine and I can?t tell what level it?s at. With my last car, there was an obvious line of black oil but the oil in this car is quite golden and so is the dipstick. I realise for you guys it?s like asking Delia how to boil an egg but what exactly am I looking for? I usually have Peugeot change it every 5000 miles but since I put 4000 miles on it in the last 3 weeks I thought I?d better have a look myself. I actually put a litre of 10 W40 in anyway but now I?m frightened of overfilling it.
Cheers Dave
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BBD: is there any oil at all showing on yr dipstick?
If it's an eyesight problem, use yr finger. That shd tell you if there's any oil there.
Get someone who can see to look at the dipstick.
I do know what you mean about this. I'm blind too.
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There is oil but more of a light smear than deep-dip. It?s so hard to tell when it?s gold. It could be my eyes, I changed my own oil as a student many times twenty years ago but then it was always acky-black and the line was unmistakable.
I?ll end up taking it to Peugeot but I?m short on spare time.
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The digital indicator on my dash says it?s full of oil but checking the dipstick I just can?t see a definite, obvious line of oil between max and min even after I?ve wiped it with a tissue and whipped it in and out again. I did this about 10 times at the weekend on the flat with a cold engine in bright sunshine and I can?t tell what level it?s at.
Sometimes, if you remove and re-insert the dipstick too many times you end up coating the inside of the dipstick guide/tube with oil. Thus you tend to get an inaccurate reading as the oil coating transfers itself all over the stick.
Next time you try, upon removal (after you've removed and wiped it the first time) press the end against white tissue/kitchen roll, where the flat 'blade' part at the end where the 'min' and 'max' markings are. The corresponding gold mark on the paper might give you some indication. Hope that makes some sort of sense!
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Also, does anyone know whether you can get different types of ramps?
Personally I wouldn't use ramps to do an oil change. Unless of course you're also going to raise the rear of the car to the same height so that the car is level again?
Raising just the front of the car tips the engine back and you're more than likely not going to drain all the oil out of the engine.
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I went into the well known fast fit centre to get rear tyres fitted. Came back to pick up car and the job sheet was held down onto the roof of the car by the biggest socket you've ever seen. Lucky it was an older Jetta, not a new 5 series.
Paid and drove off. Imagine my surprise when each time I exceeded 28 mph the rear end shook like a very shaky thing. Stopped, checked the nuts, all on finger tight. Did them up properly. Rang the co., got through to the regional director's sec. Wrote him a stinky letter. Told him I was underwhelmed. He sent a cheque for £150 to my fav charity.
Havn't been back to them since.
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You think they're crap. Try Scaffolders and your best customers flower borders. Makes you want to give up, buy a camper and flock off. Nobody seems to care anymore.
yoursfrustratedtopointofcamper..MD.
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Personally I wouldn't use ramps to do an oil change. Unless of course you're also going to raise the rear of the car to the same height so that the car is level again? Raising just the front of the car tips the engine back and you're more than likely not going to drain all the oil out of the engine.
Sump plug is on the back of the sump - ramps are perfect for it on my car. (And my previous ones)
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Sump plug is on the back of the sump - ramps are perfect for it on my car. (And my previous ones)
The plug may well be at the back of the sump (as it is on a lot of cars), but the point I was making is that at certain angles the inside of the engine can still hold onto oil on various ledges and in various crevices. That's why, when draining oil, it's best to do so with the car on a level plain.
I once did an experiment where I used ramps to drain the oil, then rolled the car off the ramps back onto terra firma to see if any more oil came out. Another ¼ to ½ litre of oil drained out.
This goes some way to explain when some people do oil changes they overfill the engine when they put fresh oil in. They know how much oil their engine takes (say for arguments sake 4 litres), they measure out and pour in 4 litres, and wonder why the dipstick is over reading by ¼ to ½ a litre.
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Well, I continue to use my local Kwik-Fit for cost-effective Mobil 1 changes on two cars. I supply them with the filters (and, indeed, the special removal tool for one car) and I watch them like a hawk. I've experienced their incompetence once in the past, but the net result was that they halved the bill. They now know me as a regular customer; several of their staff have been there for at least five years.
I change the oil myself in two other cars. I use ramps at the end of my downsloping driveway, so the cars are reasonably level.
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I tend to change my oil every 10,000 which is roughly every six months for me. If its winter and cold/wet its a down to National as its a lot less hassle and more comfortable. If its summer I do it myself along with other repairs whilst I've 'got the tools out'. But I'm just a fair weather DIY mechanic !.
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With regard to a some comments made about fast fit places and refering to the workforce as goons, I've had an email from Tyrexpert asking for the record to be set straight. He has requested that I post it on his behalf.
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Hi everyone
Big Chief Goon here. Just thought I would try to put the record straight with refernce to the very disparaging remarks made in this oil filter thread about the fast fit industry.
Just to put things in perspective I thought I had better give a few stats about my company. I own 5 sites in the Midlands / Southwest and including the lady goons in my office employ approximately 90 goons in total. As I am just about to complete my rip off, sorry financial year end I have one or two facts which may be pertinent to the comments made.
My company will bodge on approx 120000 tyres, 30000 exhaust parts, 3000 catalytic converters, 750 lamda sensors, as well as ruining 2500 batteries, 5500 brake pads, 3000 sets of discs. My most northerly site will also perform 1700 MOTs at an extortionate £25 each, as well as conning at least 500 people to have they aircon serviced. This site also does general servicing and I guarantee that we mostly do not use manufacturers parts ie we use Fram filters, Castrol oil, Apec pads and discs(mostly). We also do not use genuine car manufacturers tyres, in fact come to think of it no VM makes oil, tyres, filters, or brake parts, funny that!
Wheelbarrow tyres are of course one of our extra special earners, we fitted approx 150 in this rip off year and I am sure that out of the 18000 alignments we have performed a good 50 of those were on wheelbarrows.
Of course my 2 MOT testers and mechanic are not fully time served which is why I pay them with overtime approx £500 pw, and only charge £40 per hour labour, only charged in ¼ hour units. All my other senior staff in other branches claim to have various mechanical training but you can never tell wether those bits of paper they hold are genunine or fakes and why would I bother to check as long as my usurous profits keep rolling in.
Because this year has been a more difficult one ( see financial press re B&Q, Currys etc) I am considering making redundant my full time training manager as not only has he fully spent his training budget of approx £75k he wants a pay rise and a new car. My best rip off men and bodgers keep complaining to me that he insists on the job being done properly, this is driving my Operations Director up the wall and at the last board meeting it was decided he had to go. He spent all this money despite the fact that we also received free training from Continental Tyres, Pirelli. Bridgestone Goodyear and Michelin, particularly with the fitment of runflat tyres. In fact all my branches have training "diplomas" on the wall from all these manufacturers regarding the fitment of runflats. When you also include the BS standard training for punctures, the safe use of oxyacetlene equipment and First Aid certificates, it is now getting more and more difficult to find space for all the nude and smutty calendars.
Despite this being a difficult rip off year I have again set challenging targets to achieve, last years figures minus 10% as we are of course a financially prudent company, this is despite a hefty increase in the council tax bill and a virtual doubling of our energy costs.
I may have to reconsider my purchase of 5 new state of the art alignment machines , cost £70000 even though we are struggling somewhat with 4x4s and Audis on our Gunson trak align plates. I did suggest to my training manager that he work out a quick way of removing steering wheels so these cars went out vaguely straight wheel, this he refused to do, another reason he will have to go. I am also rueing my decision to install nitrogen inflation this year, it cost the company £10k and we are giving it away free with all new tyres fitted.
As I already have advanced fitting machines with runflat fitting capability I will not be considering the new Hoffman Boss fitting machine as it is 4 times more expensive than the more standard ones ( £9500) even though it requires no tyre levers and is especially designed for alloys and runflats. Likewise the new more expensive wheel balancers which reduce the amount of weights per wheel is also probably being dismissed. The fact that these reduce the amount of ugly zinc (not lead) required is not my problem. Also the new shock testers from Monroe at a £1000 each, no way.
I can also confirm that although we have to have our special nitro inflators calibrated and the quality of gas certified (dam those trading standards) we have no calibration certs for our torque wrenches, this is because of the volume we goons bodge on cars, we throw them away after 3 months regardless.
I am sorry to hear that Aprilias mate had a bad experience with runflats, but was this outfit trained to fit them. There is an easy way to check, is the site a member of any of the following organisations Pirelli Driver or Performance Centre, Goodyear HiQ, Bridgestone Firststop, or Michelin accredited. All these have provided any specialist training required.
I am proud of the fact that two of my branches are unique in the country as they are the only ones accredited by all four companies, and all are audited by each half yearly
Two of the others are accredited by the first three and my Southwest branch is currently going through the Michelin audit at this time. My smallest branch is currently having a £200k upgrade in facilities so has to wait for the builders to finish before Michelin go in. My fifth branch however failed the Mich tests and I am currently discussing with the manager his future.
To add further to the numbers my 5 sites rip off approx 2300 customers per week some of which are business accounts who can be ripped off several times a week. My 2 busiest branches Know that if by 9.00am on a Saturday there are not a least 25-40 victims sorry customers waitimg its going to be a quiet day. We never have quiet Saturdays!!
2 final thoughts. One of my major account customers last year bought a new XKR, because of the warranty he said he "had" to have his tyre work done at the dealers. Maybe, despite bodging all his other cars/vans, he didn`t trust us. He had tyre work done and immediately noticed a pulling problem. After several visits to no avail he in obvious desperation thought he would let my goon show have a look, before one of the senior goons looked at the car a work experience brusher up/ tea maker wandered over to admire said vehicle asked what the problem was, he was some what aghast at the thought that he might actually be working on the car, stiil he explained the problem and junior went to the front of the car and after 2 mins asked wether the 2 different sizes fitted to the front was something special to the XKR. Guess which goons fit for the Jag dealer now. This can also be said for most main dealers who may have us or KF mobile ATS or National fitting for them. No stock , no warranty problem with alloy fitment just an even higher margin than we make.
Finally as my 2 fingers are aching if we are going to slag the trade off then lets not stop at just us goons what about 2nd hand sorry pre owned car traders be they small or large those that deal with me and my other goon colleagues always insist that when new tyres have to be fitted to a sale car only the cheapest budgets will do. I have never known any car trader fit a set or even one Michelin tyre to a sale vehicle. I wonder what other "savings" they may be making.
You will have to excuse me now as I have got oodles of tax free cash to count for my secret Swiss bank account.
kind regards
Big Chief Goon aka Tyrexpert ( and even that nom de plume is problaby a con)
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It's no wonder we are being ripped off..:-)))
Seriously, many of these outlets are franchises and the quality of service and customer care is very dependent on the individuals in charge and their employees.
When you find a good one, stick to it.
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I stand by my original comments on fast-fit places. Not all bad, but a lot of them are below par. Some of you might also recall a Consumers' Association (Which? magazine) investigation which found some pretty horrendous goings-on.
Interested in your comments on 4-wheel alignment. I recently took an FTO that I'd lowered to a very smart fast-fit place with a 'Jim Beam' aligner. The lad operating it couldn't align a car to save his life - didn't understand the basics of suspension geometry - not much training there. I took the car away.
As to 'Tyreexpert' - well, I suggest you cut back on some of your investment. With all that money spent and the low prices you charge I guess you're running your business as a charity?
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My experiences in the past.
Wheel nuts not tightened.
Engine oil filler cap lost and not replaced after oil change:-(
I now watch like a hawk any tyre changes.
As far as diy oil change, I jack up front and put on axle stands, loosen sump plug, lower to level, remove plug by hand (covered in disposable rubber glove) drain and reverse for reinsertion/tightening up. With a trolley jack takes all of 10 minutes.
If I can do it, anyone can. (Includes a Jaguar XJ6 - so not just small cars:-)
madf
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>>>If I can do it, anyone can. (Includes a Jaguar XJ6 - so not just small cars:-)
madf
I bet you can't change the oil on a Focus TDCI. There is the cover which is difficult to get off, even on a ramp, and the oil filter is extremely difficult to get to.
I have given up on it, I get the oil and filter and get my local garage to do it when it is in for the MOT.
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>>I bet you can't change the oil on a Focus TDCI>>
My lad manages it and he's no special facilities...:-)
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Tyrexpert, don't go into politics, you are much too thin skinned.
Your bodge cowboy outfit sounds just the job, I like a challenge, I wish I knew where you are based, I might pop in for a few cheapo tyres, badly fitted.
This is just the advertising I like, I'm going to vote for UKIP, after Dave said they were a bunch of loonies.
On a serious note, I agree with many other posts, some places are terrible. I have had wheels not tightened, a steel valvecap left between the innertube and tyre, brakes fitted incorrectly and even mole grips still attached to the thread bar on the steering. I now know which places near me are the best and go to them, and watch what they are doing and check the wheel nuts when I get home.
Go on tell us where you are based, the mods won't mind just this once.
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My experience of a fast-fit garage that serviced my wife's four year old Golf just before its MOT was due:
1. Oil and filter was changed, but the oil was very overfilled and the MOT station (another garage) had to drain about 1 litre out, which they explained was potentially harmful to the engine.
2. I was told the tracking was wrong and paid £21 for an adjustment. The car failed the MOT because the 'locking nuts' on the steering arms were undone. The MOT garage tightened them for me and then allowed the car to pass.
3. The fast fit garage told me the front shock absorbers were leaking a bit and I should change them there and then because the car would definitely fail its MOT. The cost of this was quoted at over £200. I decided to leave them and get a second opinion from the MOT man. The MOT station could not find any trace of a leak on any shock absorbers and told me that this is a common tactic to get extra revenue.
I don't have to tell you that I now avoid this particular chain of fast fit dealers.
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>>I don't have to tell you that I now avoid this particular chain of fast fit dealers.>>
But I could relate a similar tale of one of the country's biggest chain of outlets for car accessories, parts and, in addition, servicing.
However, it's changed ownership in recent years and matters might have improved since I last used them...:-)
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Just to add one small response to Tyreexpert's post.
I note he uses Fram filters, APEC brake parts etc. Whilst I appreciate that the VM's do not actually make most of the parts that they build their cars from, they do actually SPECIFY the parts.
Thus, for example, Purflux (part of Filtrauto group - which makes Fram, Crosland, Technocar etc filters) supply the OE Mitsubishi-branded filters for Mitsubishi cars in Europe. However, if you buy an aftermarket Purflux-branded filter for a Mitsi you will find that its an inferior item. It always pays to stick with the OE filter part - the difference is usually in the quantity and quality of filter material and the anti-drainback valve.
I would not use a Fram filter on my own car. Another factor is that aftermarket filters are often 'consolidated' to reduce inventory. This means that if the seal dia. and thread are the same on two different engines then the supplier will 'consolidate' two part numbers into one and supply a part that fits both cars - even if not quite to the OE spec. Not exactly 'one size fits all', but you get the idea.
Similarly with brake parts, note that APEC is a wholesaler/distributor (they are owned by Lookers). They source their parts from third party manufacturers. APEC are OK, but not IMHO a 'premium' brand. I prefer to stick with Mintex, Delphi, ATE etc. for my own cars.
The same, of course, applies to things like exhausts, where the manufacturers part costs more, but is made to a higher specification.
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