We are travelling to SW France near Bordeaux (Vielle St Girons) and different route planners (Tom Tom 700, RAC website, Via Michelin etc) give us conflicting route advice. I think TT routes via the outskirts of Paris, which I have been advised is not good...
Anyone have any advice on which seems the best software/website to use? We are travelling via Eurotunnel.
Mike
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France has a very good network of A roads. Only if time is of the essence is it worth paying motorway tolls.
Get a good map. Work out a route, passing West of Paris, using those A roads (routes nationales). You won't have to hurry to keep up a relaxed cruise of 65 or so. You can stop when you want. It's heavenly.
Chuck the satnav out of the window and forget it. Silly toy.
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Lud, you got any recommendations as to a good map? I have used toll roads up until now, but it's pretty boring, and your version sounds a lot better...
Gord
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Michelin maps of France are good.
Use you tomtom in itinerary mode to travel from point to point as you wish
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Agreed - I've used the Michelin road atlas (the large one that covers all of France) and found it good.
Its detailed enough that even very small hamlets - even individual clusters of houses! - are featured, so if you do go astray, you're unlikely to stay lost for long.
(I travelled with one Frenchman who, having got lost outside Charles de Gaulle airport, was able to locate exactly where he was and find the way home from the Michelin map from the number of the emergency access gate he had pulled in by to check the map!)
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I agree with Lud & I use the British map "AA Europe Road Atlas" (my issue priced 8.99)
I also use a French Atlas "Atlas Routier France 1/250,000" which is bright orange and will be found in Carrefour for 6 Euros.
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Actually a large-scale Michelin map does fine... there's one that covers the whole country but I think there are bigger-scale ones that only cover parts of it.
I speak quite fluent French with a recognisable English accent, but it isn't often necessary as English is becoming the world language and the French still have an education system of sorts. Small country inns, auberges etc. are usually very pleasant and often very cheap. It's a great way to travel.
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You will get the best advice from the totalfrance.com website. Contributors to their forum are mainly people from UK who have second homes in France and there will be dozens from the Bordeaux area who regularly make the journey and know the road conditions.
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Are these A roads single/dual/triple carriageways? I prefer routes with no roundabouts (dont like the A1 in England) or junctions etc... what are the french A roads like?
Mike
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Like English ones, they vary from quite narrow old single carriageway main roads to dual carriageways of almost motorway standard, with everything in between. Surfaces can be variable but on the whole are as good as or better than ours.
Traffic densities are generally lower than British ones, which is what makes French A road driving so pleasant and economical, although you can be unlucky in some places at certain times. You can often see a long way ahead, which makes overtaking easier. Don't get done for speeding though. Speed limits are often reduced for major road junctions as well as villages. Keep an eye on these, although there shouldn't be a lot of police hiding in the bushes trying to clock you.
I find French roundabouts a bit trying too, but there's no way of avoiding them altogether. You soon get used to driving on the right. When in doubt, give way. Discretion is the better part of valour.
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When you are driving on the right French roundabouts are as natural to use as English ones,
The French however sometimes dont use roundabouts quite how they should.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Some are roundabouts, some have large stretches with no rounabouts. To be fair IF I were you I'd take the A16 toll from Calais to Abbeville (because it's nice to get going) Change onto the A28 toll to Rouen, I'd stay on the main road don't turn off and go through Rouen (described as the N338 on my map) joins the N138 after 2km you have to turn off to the right following signs to the N138 (Elbeuf, Alencon, Le Havre, Caen) after 3km you automatically join with the A13 at GRd Couronne (J23) continue for 1 km to J24 Bourgtheroulde where you exit sign says:
r24
Caen
Alençon
Le Mans
Bourgtheroulde-Infreville
Pont-Audemer
You turn left N138 Toll free and go south to Alencon > Le mans > Tours.
Take the N10 toll free South to Bordeaux, Out the other side of Bordeaux the N10 to Castets/Vielle St Girons.
Imo you won't have too much trouble or roundabouts from Rouen on the toll free roads I mentioned.
The toll from Calais to Rouen is Euros 6.60 Actually the road is free from Abbeville to Bourgtheroulde-infreville (south side of Rouen)
The toll from Rouen to Bordeaux ir Euros 49.80
If you do as I say you save 100 Euros (roundtrip)
If you want to look for yourself I found this info on this website
www.autoroutes.fr/voyage/itineraires.php
Just enter Calais in 'depart' and Abbeville, Rouen, Bourgtheroulde infreville, etc into the 'arrivee' box.
Enter Rouen in depart and Burgtheroulde in arivee, for a description of this complicated bit.
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>>Chuck the satnav out of the window and forget it. Silly toy.
Silly point of view.
Extremely useful toy which takes the stress out of driving long routes on unfamiliar roads.
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Bit overstated perhaps FM2R. A few years ago I used to denounce computers, then mobile phones, but just look at me now... Nevertheless I suspect satnav does distract people from the proper business of driving and in many cases is no more advantageous than looking at a map before starting.
No doubt useful in some circumstances though, despite stories of people being directed up sheep tracks, into carwashes etc.
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Sat nav directed me, with no fuss, drama, agro, family rows, from the port (at the dockside) across 400 miles of france, to the camp site (to the very gate)
Godsend. Had maps, checked the route before hand, didnt need them. Very pleasant driving thank you,.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Give it a go Lud. Its not the answer to all problems, but it makes for pretty fair assistance.
Looking at maps is all well and good, and useful, but then you are also reliant on road signs. They can be easy to miss, difficult to interpret and sometimes not there. Satnav would get you around that.
I usually get a broad idea from a map, and then let the Satnav take me there.
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Forget about the various sites as they give conflicting, and very often, poor routes. They will usually send you on the dreaded periphique. From Eurotunnel take the E402/A16/A28 to Rouen, and then through the tunnel in Rouen and pick up the new A28 on the other side. It's well signposted through the city.
Take the A28 to Tours and then pick up the A10 to Bordeaux. It's virtually motorway all the way except for the bit through Rouen.
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I'd agree with going via Rouen/Tours. Avoid Paris if you can.
The Michelin road map of the whole of France is excellent.
French 'A' roads (strictly 'RN' for Route Nationale) generally have little traffic on them so make for easy driving. France is 6/7? times the size of Britain with a similar population, and about half of Britain is made up of Scotland and Wales where (broadly speaking, no offence intended) nobody passes through as it's not on the way to anywhere. So that leaves you with 10% of the traffic on the roads compared to England.
Logis de France are widely recommended by members of the BR for fine food & comfortable hotels for not much money. Even cheaper are the Premiere classe/ Formule 1-type hotels where you can sleep 3 in a clean, modern pre-fab plastic hotel room for about £15 per night. Some have plastic bathrooms, some don't... I cannot quite remember which is which.
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Strictly speaking 3 people per room but no-one will know if you have parents and 2 kids in one room, because most (or some or at least the one I stayed in) the access to the room was from the outside carpark.
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BB hotels www.hotel-bb.com/ are amongst the best of the French chains and have rooms with four full beds at most sites.
Accor group have products at a range of price points of which Formule 1 are the cheapest. Bit too basic for my taste and I've heard more than one story of them being used as bases by the local "ladies of the night".
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Never mind modern. Almost any small-town or village auberge will be clean and pleasant, with good facilities if not en suite bathroom. Many serve meals too, also usually cheap and very good indeed by our standards. Prices vary but value for money is unbelievable to anyone who has ever stayed in a small hotel in this country (doubtless there are honourable exceptions but I don't know any).
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I usually stay at a Campanile. Formule 1 are too basic and you have to share a loo with others. I stayed at the Villages at Calais last October but found it too stark. They are good value for money, if you like the greeny blue decor; cheap and cheerful.
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Some excellent points made above. Think Robbie (and others?) have hit the nail on the head with regard to route. Stick to motorways and tolls will be about 60 euros which might sound expensive but you can cruise at 80 mph all day with virtually no holdups except going round Rouen and possibly round Bordeaux (bridge over Garonne has had roadworks on it last couple of years with holdups of about 30 mins at peak times at peak holiday weekends)Also need to factor in that using N roads, although usually excellent and relatively quiet compared to UK, you still have to pass through loads of villages/towns etc which does take a fair bit longer. N138 south of Rouen can be very busy and slow for instance. This might mean an extra night in a hotel compared to using Autoroutes.
Logis are excellent value and have some superb reasonable menus
www.logis-de-france.fr/uk/index.htm
B&B are also good motel type hotels as mentioned by Bromptonauto above and have breakfast with bacon (French style, a bit different to ours!) and scrambled eggs
Ibis also good - quite large rooms ensuite with good buffet breakfast and restaurant for evening meal (about a tenner) and bar -about 50-60 euros per night.
www.ibishotel.com/ibis/index.html
Etap have similar rooms but no bar/restaurant (except for breakfast)for 30-40 euros
www.etaphotel.com/etaphotel/index.html
Also worth considering are Kyriad (motel style)-Campanile part of the group also
www.envergure.fr/campanileen.html
Don't forget that hotel prices in France are per room, not per person.
Useful site to find out where holiday road hold-ups/roadworks etc are most likely and ways to avoid them
www.bison-fute.equipement.gouv.fr/
Have fun!
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Phil
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& why is it a crafty bison? Do French bisons use their roads? I've never understood.
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A couple of thoughts:
Places offering Bed and Breakfast in France are called "Chambres d'Hotes" - there is an outstanding guide that lists some really good ones, called "Alistair Sawday's Special Places to Stay", also on the web:
www.sawdays.co.uk/titles/fh/index.html
We have stayed in about 10 or more of the places listed, and have never been disappointed - lovely places, usually with excellent food (you have to check if they offer dinner, and normally need to request it in advance), and never expensive (compared esp to the UK). Why stay at a charm-free motel when you can almost always find one of these within a few miles of any junction? There are lots of other Chambres d'Hotes listed on websites if you do a bit of looking around.
Bison-fute is useful, but (as with Satnav) one has to remember that everyone tends to follow the same "crafty bison", and you can end up with worse queues than you would have had to put up with on the motorway.
I would agree with some of the earlier comments - if you are not in a complete rush, use the autoroute to get quickly past the dull areas, and a-roads through the more scenic parts.
Have a good trip!
\"Archie\"
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If you want to cover ground at a reasonable rate in France then avoid N roads - during the week they are choked with lorries that don't want to pay autoroute tolls. If your maps or satnav systems are good enough then use D roads, which are often straight and very quiet, or pay the autoroute toll - you often only have to pay for relatively short stretches of long autoroutes.
Gendarmes often do hide in the bushes with radar guns - at least on the N147 between Poitiers and Limoges! - and be aware that cameras are popping up all over the place now as well.
Bon voyage...
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I drive down through Bordeaux and on into Spain every two weeks or so. I've tried just about all of the permutations available. This way happens to be the cheapest, and equally as fast as if you went via Paris (which would be okay if you knew your way round it's motorway network (or had a gps which did!), and could be sure there were no delays...).
From Calais, down to Rouen (turn off after you go over the river), then Elbeuf - Dreux - Chartres - Tours, the rest is obvious.
It looks like a lot of what we might call A-roading, but your map won't show you that the N154 which goes from Rouen across to Tours is now mostly brand new uprated French National standard road, and avoids peage down to and around Paris. It's very easy to follow and much more interesting than the peage.
Simon.
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Cheaper even than Horatio's suggestion!
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From Calais, down to Rouen (turn off after you go over the river), then Elbeuf - Dreux - Chartres - Tours, the rest is obvious.
The problem with this route is the number of roundabouts, particularly negotiating Chartres. Mike did say, in his second post, that he wanted to avoid these. The N10 to Tours can be a nightmare.
Personally, I'd stick with the route I suggested.
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>The problem with this route is the number of roundabouts
Hardly.
'Negotiating' Chartres, a modest market town midst rural France, isn't really akin to The Magic Roundabout during peak hour.
Yes, you can experience 'nightmare' traffic in most countries, but those used to UK style congestion will be surprised how little traffic there is in France on first impressions.
My suggested route is very well signed, and flows more easily than a look at the map would suggest. It's brand new road over large stretches, combined with plenty quintessential tree-lined Nationals.
You should try it Robbie!
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I have negotiated the N154 around Chartres more times than I care to remember. Indeed, I shall be doing that on Monday week.
I don't understand how you fail to see that - there are seven or eight roundabouts. I loathe the route - particularly at peak hour, as I did last October with both lanes of the dual carriageway full- and had considered the A28 this time. However, I have to join the A20, and don't fancy the N 143 from Tours to Chateauroux.
If I were travelling to Bordeaux I wouldn't dream of using the N 154.
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Don't wish to be to repetitive (and whilst also acknowledging eurocourier's views) but I'm still with Robbie on this! Don't like the route via Chartres, from Rouen to Tours - using A28 is far easier and quicker to me - suppose though that we all have our favoured routes.
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Phil
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www.viamichelin.com is a good planning aid. The instructions actually show you a picture of what the signboard will say at your exit point mor turning during your journey. It is good for UK too.
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The online planners, including Via Michelin, will often provide awful routes. I have used them for routes that I have not been familiar with, and they have been disastrous. There really is no substitute for experience.
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The best thing about viamichelin maps is that they show you where the speed cameras are. It helped me!
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They love their mobile speedtraps in France, particularly on the autoroute or in villages located on routes nationales. You should expect to encounter at least one on a long trip. The roving douane (customs) also like to stop you to check your paperwork is all present and correct. Watching vehicles passing through the peage payment booths seems to be amongst their favourite pastimes. There are weighbridges at most of the main payment stations, although how accurate some of them are is questionable. I've been stopped loads of times, but never had a problem or been fined. Radar detectors are illegal, and will be confiscated or land you a hefty fine. A nice place to drive around though.
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When the Gendarmes have a mobile speed trap, a car will usually give you a very quick flash of the lights. You will hardly know you have seen it, but slow down!
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