Hi, I've just bought an MOT failure 309 GTI as a bit of a project. Does anyone know of common faults, things I should look out for.
Thanks.
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Changed an AFM on 205GTI last year (same engine) as it was around 7% CO, seems to be common. Heater matrix I've heard of failing & some rear bushes. Otherwise pretty good. Some parts are heart stoppingly expensive and not available from indies.
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My son's 309GTi has had a few problems. The spider gears in the diff broke up, so that meant a replacement gearbox. It's had HGF, the gasket went between the middle two cylinders.
On top of that, they are a pig to work on, the access to the right (cam belt) side of the motor is tight. There are all sorts of weird ways of doing straighforward things. There are about six different motors that went into them, and sorting out the correct details from the Haynes manual can be tricky.
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Congratulations on getting what is a dirt cheap fun car. I use one twice a year when in the UK and after two years and about 20000 miles in the hands of my wife and daughter there are no problems that have come out as peculiar to the model. However, pay attention to spark plugs seizing in the cylinder head. We have one seized and the only solution according to the servicing garage which has tried various things is going to be head removal and possibly a new insert if it still can't be freed. Access around the engine is dreadful, I have to agree, and requires lots of removal to get at items such as starter motor.
These Peugeots do, however, suffer from poor trim and build so expect lots of squeaks and plastic falling off or breaking because of its flimsiness, especially around the mirror controls. The sun roof, if fitted, leaks and drops water on your left knee when you brake after a shower. Electrical issues on ours may be caused by the aftermarket immobiliser which has been disconnected.
Get good shock absorbers and springs and buy good tyres -- Goodyear top of the range will represent a quarter of the value of a rebuilt car but will transform the roadholding -- and have some fun.
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For lots of info on pugs try the owners club - www.pughosting.co.uk/forum .
The main things that need looking at are the valve stem oil seals (blue smoke from exhaust under load) and the rear beam which often needs a rebuild. The sunroof does have a habit of leaking - best solution is to fold up some loo roll and place it in the handle to soak up the moisture.
If you find a mayo type gunk in the oil filler cap it is often not the head gasket - give the car a good run and 'italian tune up' and it will remove the gunk - it comes from using the car for short runs so the moisture doesn't get burnt off.
The other problem is the exhaust manifold which often cracks - this is a right pain in the posterior to fix as it's dead tight up the back and you will definately end up skinning your knuckles!
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Thanks everyone,
Here is the Ebay ad tinyurl.com/rnlx9
I cant see how the brakes would be caused by a dodgy servo, me thinks more like they havent been bled properly?
K
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Keith
I had the 309 SRi, similar to your car with the 1.6i as opposed to the 1.9.
IIRC the 1.6 uses the same head as the 1.9, and poss the same block?
The rattles and squeaks - I can confirm!
Makes sure the cam belt is changed every 40k. Peugeot didn't specify a cambelt change for my car - a 1986 reg but oddly enough specified them at 40k for cars since. This cost us dear!
Oh' and they do go bang when they go.
Central locking failed on mine. I fixed it by removing the CL control unit, opening it up and soldering a steel strip back to a copper stud about an inch long. That solved the problem.
The footbrake had a habit of needing to be applied twice when you were least expecing it. No one ever got to the bottom of this. It happened so infrequently that it was never replicated when needed.
Access in the engine bay was not easy for the 1.6. The 1.9 will be worse.
If you want to really give it some beef, I do believe the 16v engine out of the Citroen BX 1.9GTi will fit nicely......
H
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The engine that hugo mentions is the 1.6 XU engine which is the same head and block as the 1.9 XU which is used in the 205 and 309 GTI. The difference is in the bore.
Yes access is tight around the engine in a 309 but it's worse on the 205!
The BX 1.9GTi used the same engine as the 205/309 GTI, if you are after a 16v conversion you need the engine out of a 405 MI16, BX 16v, 306 S16 or ZX 16v. Other options for conversion are the 2.0 8v Turbo as used in Xantia's and 406's or a 306 GTI6 conversion.
Yes there will be squeeks and rattles - they build them in at the factory!
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Guess the stars mean something bad blue_haddock? lol
I want to keep the car as standard, if the rust to the roof is terminal then I'll get rid and find a better one, but the hope is to find a decent one, get it into good original condition and keep it for a long long time.
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I guess they do!
The brakes can be a right pain in the posterior to bleed - usuallly takes a couple of attempts to get all the air out.
The 309 is the older ugly sister to the 205 and that means they can be dirt cheap as a toy/project/track car. Also the slightly longer wheel base and wider track gives them a better handling charecteristic - less twitchy than the 205.
Worse case scenario if the car is a nail is you break it for parts for quite a bit more than you paid for it.
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The 309 GTI is a better handling car then a 205 GTI.
In the 309 there's more weight over the rear wheels so it doesn't suffer from the 205s wet road pick a hedge handling problems if your an enthusiastic driver.
Also because nobody really wants a 309 you can pick them up dirt cheap.
If you want it to go faster then stick a XU9J4 405 MI16 engine in & get 160 bhp as standard.
The XU10J2 & J4 engines out the series 2 405, the 406 & 306 & all cast iron so are heavier then the XU9J4s all alloy unit.
For the extra 7 bhp the XU10J4RS 306 GTI6 lump will give it isn't really worth bothering with, Stick to the series one 405s XU9J4 MI16 160 bhp lump or the BX GTI 16 valve which had the same lump.
Don't even think about sticking the 406 XU10J2TE 2 litre 8 valve turbo lump in, They are truly DREADFUL!
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Everyone keeps telling my that the 309 is ugly etc, but each to his own, I quite like them. And for £156.22 I'm not exactly taking a big risk.
I've bought a easi-bleed pressure bleeding kit to make things easier. Lets hope the bleed nipples dont shear into the rear callipers!
I've always fancied doing a bit of weekend racing and stuff, but it sounds expensive to do, adding rollcages and the like? Think I'll stick to the plan for keeping it standard.
Someone offered the guy who was selling the car £100 just for the alloy wheels, so if it is a dog I think I'll easily get my money back as blue_haddock says.
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Rear callipers on Peugeots do seize up easily & the pads do fall apart through lack of use.
The handbrake seizes up a treat too if not looked after.
The 309 GTI is underrated by a lot of people, I would rather have the 309 GTI then the 205 GTI.
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I used to have a 309 GTI Goodwood and i absolutely loved that!
You can break the car for loads more than you paid for it - £100 for the alloys, £100 for the engine, £50 for the gearbox, £50 for the rear beam etc.
There are loads of specialist places around breaking pugs so if you need any bits they are pretty easy to get hold of.
You don't need to fully cage the car if your after a bit of fun - there are loads of decent trackdays where you can take the car out on track but don't need a fully prepared car.
The PSOOC are having our spring meet in a couple of weeks time and thats being held at a little circuit in south wales. The annual Pugfest takes place in July at Prescott hill in Gloucestershire where members will have the chance to run up the hillclimb course there. www.pugfest.co.uk
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Well I picked it up last weekend.
Fixed the brakes, the gunsons thing worked a treat although it was a bit messy.
The body is very good and I think the rust above the windscreen will clear up. The car has no paperwork but all original locks and keys, seems to have original panels and even the sunroof doeant leak.
But I've found the following faults and am in two minds whether to just break it and get something better:
Rear beam knocking - cant detect any play but the noise suggests problems. Maybe £250 to fix?
Foglights & Driving lights need replacing - anyone know where these can be sourced and roughly how much?
Play in steering - seems to be inner track rod end
Cracked Exhaust Manifold
Blue smoke on startup and during warming up - lots of. I know the valve stem oil seals go on these cars, but I'm wondering if this is more serious. Anyone know if the piston rings tend to fail on these cars? Smoke seems to clear when engine is warm.
Alloys need refurbishing and tyres past their best.
Interior not as good as eBay ad suggested. Needs numerous parts like glovebox lid, switches, back seats etc. etc.
Reverse lights dont work. Still trying to find the switch on the gearbox.
The air horn sounds really rough, maybe its just full of mud??
The list is long and I recon to get this car in A1 condition is going to be well over £1000 - maybe closer to £2000.
Is it worth it??? I guess a bodyshop will want a few hundred to sort the rust, I am useless at bodywork and dont even want to attempt it.
Keith
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look up a place called 205parts, its either in derby or crewe, they will have everything you need to restore it, the rear beam knock will be mounts, blue smoke will be stem seals, common problem on older versions, rings tend to last forever due to wet lined system, reverse switch look under the clutch arm, white thing screwed into box, horns are bad on these cars, easy cheap fix though. Manifold crack is common aswell, weld it or pick up another manifold for sub £20.
If you do break it send me a mail admin@track-slags.co.uk as I would take the rear beam off you.
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Apparently the mounts were done at the last MOT. One wheel is showing excess camber so I think it might be terminal.
Good to know that the rings last - I think if the engine had gone then that would have been it. I'll change the valve stem seals and see what happens.
Do you know what the easy fix is? I'd prefer to keep the car standard, rather than put a conventional horn on.
New fault last night - the headlight adjuster mechanisms have cracked off - probably due to 16 years of sun on the plastic.
List just keeps getting longer........
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Nearly all 309 GTI & 405 MI16 owners with the airhorn system just junk it when it goes wrong & fit the twin standard horns off a high spec 405.
Theres one in each front bumper corner of the 405 behind the front fog lamps, Easy scrapyard find.
Its also far easy to fit a good second hand rear beam on the car then to try to replace the bearings with it still attached.
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Rear beams are a known problem but a full rebuild is both time consuming and expensive - best off finding a half decent one on a scrapped car and changing the whole beam.
Unless you are desperate for them to work i'd suggest not bothering with the lights - they will only disintegrate again rapidly anyway. If you do want to change them GSF do replacements for about £40 a pair.
When your looking at the track rods have a look at the bottom arms too as they are notorious for going as well. Again GSF are you best bets for replacements.
Exhaust manifold is another classic problem from when the engine rocks slightly, either get it welded or get a new one - i wouldn't recommend one off a scrapper as that one is probably just as bad.
For the alloy refurb i would recommend www.pugrims.co.uk but the website seems to be down at the moment - £50 a corner is going rate for a refurb.
If the car is only for fun why not ditch things like the rear seats to save some weight? The glovebox lid is yet another regular fault - they wear over age so you might have a bit of trouble finding a good one.
The horns do get full of crud from being down in the wheel arch - as has already been mentioned it's usually easier and cheaper to ditch the airhorns and just get a cheap aftermarket horn.
To be honest no it's not worth spending money on a 309 - especially not £2000. Even immaculate low mileage Goodwoods or tuned Mi 16 309's don't fetch much money compared to 205's however the handling on the 309 is better due to the slightly wider track and extended wheelbase and i personally prefer the 309.
If the rust is like it usually is just around the corners of the windscreen i'd be tempted to leave it - it's rarely structural and most 309's suffer with it so unless you are looking to keep the car for a long time i'd leave it as it is.
Having said all this i still love my pugs - got back late last night from spending all day at Llandow Circuit on a Pug track day, as soon as my mates get the pics/vis up i'll post the link so you can have a look.
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