Back to one of the original questions - should you buy a rental car?
Well, assuming that there is some balance of manufacturers warranty left and a full service history, I am inclined to accept the theory that a car driven by many people, especially with a heavy foot, is better that one gently run around the block.
There are many examples of cars giving dreadful economy, because the original driver was too soft on the engine to bed it in.
I always prefer automatic, as it is quicker away from the lights, more relaxing in traffic and you never worry about clutch burn out.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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NW - I can see you in nothing else than a Almera.
You're just trying to goad me into evading the stereotype by buying the frogmobile, aren't you? ;)
Anyway, for some meanings of the word "see", a Berlingo might be more suitable ...
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I'm sure you could get a Nissan approved bull bar for the Almera ;)
Seriously though, I can't help you on the newer model (N16) but the older N15 SWMBO is still good at 7 years old and 30,000 miles.
The auto on this is a bit slow to change at times. I don't know what the new one is like but it's something to be aware of, especially when accelerating up hills - we have a lot of them here so it matters.
H
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I'll chip in as well. I've got the N15 Almera on an R reg, manual. Dark Green and filthy.
It's fine, does the job and (shock, horror) goes like stink if you go over 4000rpm and goes round corners. Surprises a lot of people on the Avon ring road, and the old and dirty appearance persuades people to "let me in" in Bristol city centre traffic.
Maybe our Foci loving contributors have followed hat wearing Almera drivers, and think the driving style is the car's. It's not, the car will do what you ask of it. Maybe the Focus does it a bit better, but for nine tenths of the time, a nippy hatchback that does 40mpg and has a stereo and sunroof suits me fine. Corners a lot better than my Octavia ever did, that was a tank in comparison.
IMHO of course!
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We are running the Almera (N15) 1.4 now for 10 years from new and I drove a focus as well and maybe I am a bit daft but I can't tell that there is such a different in the handling. The car/appliance/white good is more reliable than my fridge, not a problem in 10 years of ownership and 185k. Still on the original clutch/gearbox and cost peanuts to service in 'National' of Warrington. Many of these N15 around here in the NW.
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That's because there isn't such a difference. I sometimes wonder if the Almera knockers have even driven one to be honest.
These will be the same people who called the Primera bland in the early 90s when it was streets ahead of the Mondeo and Vectra/Cavalier in the handling department.
The Almera is a vastly underrated car. I have nothing against the Focus -- as a second-hand buy it is a good solid proposition, but it ain't all that, and I wish people would stop pretending that it is. The Seat Leon handles better than the Ford Focus, so surely on that basis you should go out and buy one of those instead? (The Leon also wins in the looks department IMO, especially the new one).
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That's because there isn't such a difference. I sometimes wonder if the Almera knockers have even driven one to be honest.
I have driven one.
These will be the same people who called the Primera bland in the early 90s when it was streets ahead of the Mondeo and Vectra/Cavalier in the handling department.
The Primera was streets ahead in the early 90's though the Mondeo took the honours when it was launched in '93. Late 90's Primeras also had a well founded reputation for fine handling.
The Almera is a vastly underrated car. I have nothing against the Focus -- as a second-hand buy it is a good solid proposition, but it ain't all that, and I wish people would stop pretending that it is. The Seat Leon handles better than the Ford Focus, >>
It is utter rubbish to say that the 00-05 Leon handles better than a Focus, the chassis is based on the Mk IV Golf which is no great handler, although Seat managed to improve on that and the Leon does drive well it does not have the feel and poise of a Focus. That being said a Leon might make a good buy for NW.
NW, how about a 98 - 04 Astra as per my earlier post?
NW
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Cheddar asked:
NW, how about a 98 - 04 Astra as per my earlier post?
I considered an Astra, because there are plenty of them around at used prices not much higher than an Almera. But it seems that all I would get for the extra money is less reliability, and the extra expense of a cambelt rather than a chain (2 replacements in the course of 100K miles at about £300 a go).
I don't much like the Astra's ride: it's too jiggly (tho the Almera isn't much better), and any marginal improvement in handling doesn't interest me.
Seat Leon even more so. More expensive still, and all the unreliability of a VW.
jase1:BTW if you look at HJ's deals there is a brand-new 1.5l Almera Flare selling for £6399. That's a great deal, and may sway your decision away from the second-hand auto.
That's v good value, but unfortunately only a 3-door: the 5-doors are about £1500 more, and I find that 3-door cars are a nuisance. Dunno why Nissan is releasing so many cheap 3-door Almeras but not 5-doors, but the über-cheap deals are all for the 3 door cars.
However Motorpoint has some good deals on 1.5S 5drs, so I'll consider one of them if I decide against the auto.
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For God's sake Jase - we get the idea - you love the Almera.
For what it's worth, yes I've driven one and yes I thought it was ok. But it left me wanting to slit my wrists. Simple as. But that's just me.
Don't make your next reply anything to do with the virtues of the Almera against any Ford, Vauxhall, or other mainstream make. NW has decided she wants an Almera - that's it. There seems little point clogging up this thread with rubbish. (Which I will concede I am a part of).
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For God's sake Jase - we get the idea - you love the Almera. For what it's worth, yes I've driven one and yes I thought it was ok. But it left me wanting to slit my wrists.
That's a bit of an over-reaction, surely?
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For God's sake Jase - we get the idea - you love the Almera.
That's not the impression I get. Along with several other posters, Jase just seems to reckon that the Almera is OK, and comes at a good price.
For what it's worth, yes I've driven one and yes I thought it was ok.
Good -- so you agree :)
But it left me wanting to slit my wrists. Simple as. But that's just me.
I'll never figure out what it is that makes some men get so deeply emotional about two very smilar metal boxes on wheels. :)
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>>I'll never figure out what it is that makes some men get so deeply emotional about two very smilar metal boxes on wheels. :)<<
What can I say? :-)
Aprilia. Of course it's an over-reaction. I know you think Japanese cars are the best thing since electricity and I'm sure you're very good at what you do so when you say they're almost bulletproof, I really believe they are. But it's just the overall package. When I got out, I felt nothing. Nothing at all.
It's like my Dad's car. A crappy Mazda 626. It does it's job perfectly. Works perfectly. Never fails but you get out wondering where the last 20 minutes of your life have gone.
I think there are two types of cars. Tools, and Tools that you enjoy using. An Almera would be a screwdriver. A better car (I'm purposely leaving out my definition of a better car) would be a Black & Decker Power drill or a super powerful Karcher pressure washer.
This is all academic really because NoWheels has said it's an Almera. Nothing else. If she wanted a Focus, I'd be so shocked, I'd give her mine.
Let's not all get so wound up about a car...much less something as boring as an Almera ;-)
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But it's just the overall package. When I got out, I felt nothing. Nothing at all.
That's my point: I'm bewildered by the expectation of an emotional surge from a car. Men are from a different planet :)
This is all academic really because NoWheels has said it's an Almera. Nothing else.
Fine cars, the Focus: for a while it looked like I was going to be given one last year, and I'm sure I'd have been quite happy with it. If there was one going cheaper than an equivalent Almera, I'd take it -- it's jsut that I don't think they are worth a few thousand extra.
If she wanted a Focus, I'd be so shocked, I'd give her mine.
I'll not look this gift horse in the mouth, either. If you drop the car around to my place next weekend, I'll gift you a lift home. Thanks! :)
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You never let me finish.
If she wanted a Focus, I'd be so shocked, I'd give her mine.....when the time comes and I want to sell it. ;-)
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You never let me finish.
You finished your post when you chose to :)
If she wanted a Focus, I'd be so shocked, I'd give her mine.....when the time comes and I want to sell it. ;-)
Oh for the days when a man's word was his bond :(
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You'd actually want my car? After the years of insults it's provided you with???
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You'd actually want my car? After the years of insults it's provided you with???
Never look a gift horse in the mouth, Adam :)
Besides, I'd have great fun saying that it was OK and kinda did the job, even if it looked daft :P
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But it's just the overall package. When I got out, I felt nothing. Nothing at all.
That's my point: I'm bewildered by the expectation of an emotional surge from a car. Men are from a different planet :)
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I'm bewildered too, and I'm a bloke.
Cars are just things to get you from A to B with as little hassle and expense as possible.
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"I'm bewildered too, and I'm a bloke.
Cars are just things to get you from A to B with as little hassle and expense as possible."
Utter tripe!
First you are a bloke, so somewhere in your soul is something that gets excited by stuff that makes a noise, makes a smell, makes smoke and has bits that spin round or go up and down in it.
Second, and not just you pyruse, you are all on here waffling wittering and warbling on about motoring, cars and roads. If it didnt interest you, you wouldnt be here.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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you are all on here waffling wittering and warbling on about motoring, cars and roads. If it didnt interest you, you wouldnt be here.>>
Exactly RF! I can understand why an Almera appeals to my Aunty Mabel though I cannot understand why it appeals to someone who is actually interested in cars.
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Couldn't have put it better than cheddar and TVM.
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I find it funny how people can argue for miles about how Focus beats Almera hands down and how it's insane for any car enthusiast to even think about buying one.
Few facts.
Brand new Almera 1.5 Flare can be had for £6,399 delivered to your door. For the price of basic Focus 1.6 LX and a set of car mats you can have two of those. And both will be better equipped than basic Focus. It will have air con, ABS, EBD, 4 airbags, 16 inch alloys, foglamps, leather steering wheel with audio controls and ugly, but equipped with 6 speakers stereo. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, on the market, in that price bracket that can match, equipment level, reliability and driving experience. It'll be hard enough to find anything chain driven below £10.000. So, that's what Nissan can do for £6.399. Now, Almera for £12,000, in the sector of basic Focus, is a car with sat nav on 7 inch colour screen, full climate control, sunroof, hardened suspension, sport kit, traction control and wide tyres. It has Terranos 136 bhp diesel unit that pushes its light body to 60 mph in 8.9 seconds making it until very recently the fastest diesel car in its class. That's for the price of most basic Focus, with black plastic door trims and even ashtray and footrest removed to save on costs.
So, unless you start comparing like for like it's not Focus vs. Almera. It's 4 year old Focus vs. brand new Almera.
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Why does it have to be sold so cheap?.................
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Why does it have to be sold so cheap?................. ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Does it matter?
You buy a 4-year-old Focus, after 3 years it's 7 years old, into banger territory. And quite honestly I wouldn't like to put my trust into a 7 year old car -- I'd be wanting to change it after about 18 months.
Yes, if you have the money buy a Focus. But even then, I'd be looking more at that 2l Subaru Legacy Motorpoint had for £11K rather than a Dagenham Dustbin quite honestly. Proper car.
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No it does not matter. Just wondered why it had to be priced so cheaply to make it saleable. There has to be a reason why Nissan cant get Focus money for it. If they could I am sure they would.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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No it does not matter. Just wondered why it had to be priced so cheaply to make it saleable. There has to be a reason why Nissan cant get Focus money for it. If they could I am sure they would. ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
If I'm being honest the price is the one and only thing that attracts me to this car. If it was £10k I'd treat it in the same category as the Mitsubishi Carisma/Lancer.
At £6k it's in the same bracket as the Korean cars, which it takes to the cleaners in every category. That's why it starts to make sense. Honda Civic mechanical quality for the same price as a Fiat.
This year they replace it with a car based on the Megane. Whether this means it'll be a fantastic car (Nissan reliability, Renault design flair) or an absolute dog (Renault reliability, Nissan design) is anyone's guess.
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No it does not matter. Just wondered why it had to be priced so cheaply to make it saleable. There has to be a reason why Nissan cant get Focus money for it. If they could I am sure they would. ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
I think the distinction that you draw is important, but that you may be taking the wrong conclusion from it.
I think Nissan have demonstrated they can make reliable, adequate, practical cars for the price they are selling them for (which may not have any relation to their list prices). The problem is that we dullards are happier paying almost double this for a "better" badge on the front.
Anyone saying that a Focus.... a Focus!! has character is clearly to be doubted!
Cars are appliances, tools even, but having had many years of very clever advertising, with glossy mags and silver tongued motoring journalists to talk up the pleasures of driving, it is no wonder that some people become woefully misguided into a very perverse form of car worship. They are only bits of tin!
I've lost count of the number of customers I've seen who lavish more care and affection on their car than on their family - it's crazy. I think Aprilia used a phrase along the lines of "high spec car on the drive - no food in the fridge"
Yes, I have been bitten by the car bug myself, and I have also tried to give up this strangely addicitive web-site more than once (are there patches available to help withdrawl symptoms?), but I hope that at least I know I'm being a mug when I ogle the new motor cars in the showroom window.
I hope your Almera will do all you ask of it NW - a shrewd choice if I may say so.
Number_Cruncher
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I can hand on heart say I'd rather have a 4 year old Focus rather than a brand new Almera.
I'd rather have a 4 year old 306, Megane, Clio, Astra, Golf and a multitude of other cars than a new Almera too.
And I'm bound to say this. You probably won't believe me but I honestly believe that I'd rather have my car as it is now than a new Almera.
I think we've established if you want a car that does the job but leaves you cold, get an Almera. If you want just a modicum of excitement, get practically anything else.
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> I think we've established
No, you've established. Don't be so arrogant.
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I'm terribly sorry. I should have said,
I, along with RF, Cheddar and even NoWheels to an extent have established it's bland.
Again, please accept my grovelling apologies for that wholly inaccurate, ill thought out statement.
Please - it would mean a great deal to me.
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It's interesting you mentioned the Megane. From HJ's review:
"if anyone asked me what I thought of the Almera, and then, before I could reply, slipped in the aside that they?d just bought one, I wouldn?t tell them what I told the woman whose French husband had landed them with a Megane."
Heh.
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This is fast descending into unpleasantness so I'll just reply to your last comment and probably leave it at that.
I disagree with HJ on quite a lot of things. Just because I'm on his forum, it doesn't mean I have to agree with every single one of his opinions. At times I think he's way out. Others, I agree. But that's his opinion. Just as mine is...well - mine.
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I'm bewildered too, and I'm a bloke.
Cars are just things to get you from A to B with as little hassle and expense as possible."
Utter tripe!
First you are a bloke, so somewhere in your soul is something that gets excited by stuff that makes a noise, makes a smell, makes smoke and has bits that spin round or go up and down in it.
Second, and not just you pyruse, you are all on here waffling wittering and warbling on about motoring, cars and roads. If it didnt interest you, you wouldnt be here.
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There's a difference between being interested in cars and enjoying driving.
Yes, mechanical stuff interests me.
What's that got to do with the average UK drving experience, which frankly is like having teeth pulled, regardless of what car you are in?
I don't much enjoy driving from A to B, and therefore a car which makes the whole process as painless, cheap, and reliable as possible is good to have.
If I were having a day out on a test track, I certainly wouldn't do it in an Almera, but that's a different kind of driving entirely.
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True.
Most of my driving is on motorways. I fail to see what enjoyment you can derive from motorway slog either. Mostly straight lines, 85mph most of the time punctuated by road-blocks.
Indeed, the cash you save by buying something like an Almera could be put to better use as I said, such as the odd track day, in a real car, where you can have some fun.
The Americans have the right idea for long-distance driving, big spacious tanks with lazy V6/V8 engines which waft along on cruise. Not buzzing away in small hatchbacks as we do here. Pity they can't make such a car which doesn't guzzle -- yet.
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Have you ever heard of diesel? ;o)
I wouldn't call 2300rpm at 70mph buzzing.
Doesn't drink the dino juice like a Yank Tank either...
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Yes but does it sound like a V8? ;-)
I have great fun in my car nearly every day. Whether it's because I'm still young and the novelty hasn't worn off yet I don't know but I'll be spending a hefty proportion of my income on my next car (whather that income might be).
I'm striving for a V6 at the very least and ideally 3.0 or more. That Lexus I had (albeit for a day) was 3.0 and I'd feel cheated if I got anything smaller.
Diesel schmiesel.
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Have you ever heard of diesel? ;o) I wouldn't call 2300rpm at 70mph buzzing. Doesn't drink the dino juice like a Yank Tank either...
Diesel? Yach.
We're talking about driving pleasure and you're talking diseasel?
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I thought we were talking about driving displeasure, specifically small 4 pot petrol engine vibes, but there you go.
Sigh.
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I thought we were talking about driving displeasure, specifically small 4 pot petrol engine vibes, but there you go. Sigh.
You are of course completely correct and I apologise. I don't personally like diesels for round-town use, and started typing before putting brain into gear. You're right, a big diesel barge is the nearest we have to an ideal motorway car. Just don't try pottering around the side-roads in one ;)
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Diesel? Yach. We're talking about driving pleasure and you're talking diseasel?
If you want to drive along on a motorway at 70 mph with hardly any engine noise, what is unpleasant about a good diesel engine?
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2What's that got to do with the average UK drving experience, which frankly is like having teeth pulled, regardless of what car you are in?
I don't much enjoy driving from A to B"
Because you do it in a tupperware lunch box.
Mind you - so do I now :(
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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2What's that got to do with the average UK drving experience, which frankly is like having teeth pulled, regardless of what car you are in? I don't much enjoy driving from A to B" Because you do it in a tupperware lunch box.
Frankly, all cars are tupperware lunch boxes.
Metal box with some glass windows, on four wheels, an engine to make it go, and a few seats inside. Pay a bit extra and they'll leave off the roof, but otherwise they're all made to the same recipe, which hasn't changed much in 75 years.
Some of them are quieter than others and some have more space inside. Some go faster, and some don't make you slow down so much on the corners. Some have easier to operate controls, and some have more comfortable seats and more toys. But the differences are mostly in the detail.
Buy any one of the several hundred cars available on the market today, and they'll all get you along the M1 and back at near identical speed, but they'll all allow you to do it at the time of your choosing, with the company you choose, and without getting out in the rain. Hardly any of them will give you as much space as you'd get on the train.
It's a choice of posh tupperawre luncboxes or cheaper tupperware lunchboxes.
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For God's sake Jase - we get the idea - you love the Almera. For what it's worth, yes I've driven one and yes I thought it was ok. But it left me wanting to slit my wrists. Simple as. But that's just me. Don't make your next reply anything to do with the virtues of the Almera against any Ford, Vauxhall, or other mainstream make. NW has decided she wants an Almera - that's it. There seems little point clogging up this thread with rubbish. (Which I will concede I am a part of).
Nah, I'm not having that. It wasn't me who started this Almera vs other cars stuff. Blame cheddar ;)
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No probs, I've got broad shoulders, I can take it!
;-)
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