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Tue 18 Oct 2005 18:28

Time Limit for being cautioned - mesir

Hi,
I was recently involved in a road traffic accident between myself (in a car) and a motorcyclist. Police attended the scene as the motorcyclist was injured in the incident. I was not cautioned at the scene nor was I even given a producer (I was accompanied by a third party at the accident scene so I didnt just miss the caution being given!!).

I have been visited by the police nine weeks later and cautioned for careless driving and asked to provide a statement which will be sent to a case review officer who will decide on whether to send to the Crown Prosecution Service for the offence.

I must admit to being slightly confused as presumably if the police thought that I had acted in a dangerous manner they would have at least given me a producer for my insurance details etc and/or cautioned me at the time.

The crash investigation unit were not called to the scene (apparently called to most personal injury accidents)and when I phoned the police to enquire as to why this was I was told that presumably this was an uncontentious accident (I pulled out from a junction and the motorcyclist hit the front passenger wing of my vehicle)

I have looked on various web sites for the answer to this and there seems to be a lot of conflicting information. The police informed me when they eventually visited that because I was present and aware of the accident that they did not have to issue a Notice of Intention to prosecute. Does anybody have any concrete idea of the correct protocol in this instance?

Thanks

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Tue 18 Oct 2005 18:44

Time Limit for being cautioned - $till $kint

Dwight Van Driver and Pugugly are the guys to give you concrete info on this. There are a couple of other police officers that post on here, but DVD and PU between them usually have the legal niceties off pat.

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Tue 18 Oct 2005 19:03

Time Limit for being cautioned - mesir

Thanks. I am new to this site so how do I contact these people?

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Tue 18 Oct 2005 19:39

Time Limit for being cautioned - smokie

One of them will be along soon I'm sure - keep watching the thread.

In the meantime I would imagine that it can legally be a lot longer than 9 weeks. I would guess that some offences are limitless (e.g. murder, where the perp was not identified until years later).

6 months rings a bell with me, although that might be the max time between being cautioned and summons issued.

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Tue 18 Oct 2005 21:39

Time Limit for being cautioned - Dwight Van Driver

Section 2 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 is the authority for what Bib states.

The requirements of Section 1 (NOIP/your mention of caution) does not apply in relation to an offence i.e. dangerous driving, due care, fail to conform to traffic sign etc. if at the time of the offence or immediately after it an accident occurs owing to the the presence on a road of a vehicle in respect of which the offence was committed.

In relation to proceedings, dangerous driving/due care may be brought within a period of 6 months from the date on which evidence sufficient in the opinion of the prosecutor to warrant the proceedings came to his knowledge but no proceedings can be brought after 3 years from the date of the offence.

It is CPS who now authorise prosecution, no longer the Police, so it would appear the clock starts once they have made the decision to go ahead from the file submitted which can take time as under Swan v Vehicle Inspectorate [1996] a person investigating but not having the power to authorise prosecution is not classed as a Prosecutor.

DVD

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Tue 18 Oct 2005 22:37

Time Limit for being cautioned - mesir

Thanks for this Dwight Van Driver. Do you have any idea how they differentiate between careless driving and a momentary lapse in concentration and how big a part, if any, weather conditions play a part in their decision.

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Wed 19 Oct 2005 08:33

Time Limit for being cautioned - Dwight Van Driver

When the file is submitted to CPS they will cast an eagle eye to see whether the definition of due care has been breached, i.e.
that standard of driving that would be expected of a reasonable prudent and competent driver in ALL THE ATTENDANT CIRCUMSTANCES.

dvd

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Wed 19 Oct 2005 12:15

Time Limit for being cautioned - mesir

Thanks

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Wed 19 Oct 2005 19:32

Time Limit for being cautioned - Pugugly {P}

DVD what can I add ?

Just a bit of practical advice.

Police attending accidents will usually ask for an account from drivers, the one they suspect of being to blame should normally be cautioned before anything reply is written down, anything written should be offered for signature, whether this is in a pocket note book or in the pro-forma accident books. Whether this is later admissable or not depends on being cautioned. Not cautioning at this point is not fatal to the case but makes any reply/verbal statement/account potentially inadmissable. Everything else sounds as per the book including the bit about an NIP.

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Wed 19 Oct 2005 21:36

Time Limit for being cautioned - Dwight Van Driver

Of course Grand Master point taken.

I was of the opinion he was asking about the NOIP aspect and not PACE that you refer to. I gather some forces are that twitchy about the PACE caution that they slip it in when they issue an RT/1 for docs.

dvd

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Wed 19 Oct 2005 22:06

Time Limit for being cautioned - Pugugly {P}

They probably knew there would be a follow up visit for an interview under caution so didn't bother with the producer.

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Thu 20 Oct 2005 00:26

Time Limit for being cautioned - Fullchat

DVD and PU have covered most points re NOIP and the PACE caution.

However
"I have been visited by the police nine weeks later and cautioned for careless driving and asked to provide a statement..."

Your account of the order in which this has been done is causing me some confusion.

Normal process is:

1. For Police to attend the scene and examine.
2. Assess where blame is to be apportioned.
3. Get account from witnesses.
4. Get brief account from person suspected of committing
offence. May or may not be under caution but best
practice is to caution which makes any statement at that
stage admissible in Court.
5. Conduct formal interview under caution, recorded
contempraneously (word for word) in a question and answer
format with the interviewee being asked to read and sign.
The opportunity for legal representation is also given.
6. Report for Careless/Dangerous driving.

"Statements" are taken from witnesses not suspects or do you mean an account was taken.

Circumstances permitting I try and conduct the formal interview at scene and issue a HO.RT1 for production of relevant documents.
I also facilitate exchange of details for insurance purposes.

Document production can be requested at scene or at any time however validation of Licence entitlement and insurance can be
obtained from Police systems so might not be requested.

In straightforward collisions I can generally wrap up and submit a prosecution file including independent witness statements in 2 to 3 weeks sometimes less.

9 weeks seems an awful long time before being interviewed. Where do you live?

Fullchat

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Thu 20 Oct 2005 00:41

Time Limit for being cautioned - Fullchat

"Thanks for this Dwight Van Driver. Do you have any idea how they differentiate between careless driving and a momentary lapse in concentration and how big a part, if any, weather conditions play a part in their decision."

Momentarily lapses in concentration are refered to in very very minor collisions such as bumps whilst manouvering. There is no legal definition. It seems to be a term that has been adopted to clerically "write off" minor incidents. The term is also used by the CPS in their assessment as to whether a case will go for prosecution. Technically speaking as per DVDs definition any collision could be classed as 'Careless' for the purposes of prosecution. There has to be some form of grading and guidelines otherwise every minor bump and graze could go to Court.

Fullchat

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Thu 12 Apr 2018 01:24

Time Limit for being cautioned - KA21

Toyota Yaris - Accident

Honest John » Back Room » Legal matters

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Thu 12 Apr 2018 00:22

KA21

Hi All,

I've been reading this website for sometime and have always found it helpful.

So, I was involved in a car accident last week. When the police arrived at the scene they interviewed me under caution and briefy explained that whatever I said could be used against me.

All I remember was driving one minute and the next thing I know, I've hit a bus stop signpost. Luckily no one else was hurt or injured. I had to go A+E for whiplash. When they interviewed me and asked me what happened I said that I may have fallen asleep but I'm not sure how to really explain. I explained the same for insurance. I have read online and read that I could be charged with dangerous driving and be disqualified from driving as I have only passed my test about 1.5 years.

I tried following up with the police on whats going to happen next and I have not heard from them since.

Can anyone advise me what can I do next or how long does it normally take for things like this to be processed. Also what is likely to happen? Am I really anxious about it don't know what else I can do.

Thanks for your response.

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Thu 12 Apr 2018 01:36

Time Limit for being cautioned - daveyK_UK

did you get the investigating police officers name or badge number?

if so, give them a call

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Thu 12 Apr 2018 13:39

Time Limit for being cautioned - Gibbo_Wirral

Saying you fell asleep is not going to go in your favour. But at least its refreshing to not hear "animal ran across road" or "sneezing fit" or "messing with radio".

Hope it goes OK for you because of your honesty.

Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 12/04/2018 at 13:40

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Thu 12 Apr 2018 14:40

Time Limit for being cautioned - KA21

Well apparently it'll be a waiting game.

Im really anxious about it as it would affe t my job as well.

I have tried contact the police officer who was there at the time but has not heard back.

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Thu 12 Apr 2018 15:28

Time Limit for being cautioned - Andrew-T

Is there any chance that you may have suffered a momentary blackout? Were you 'woken up' by hitting the bus stop, or can't you remember? Were you tired enough to have fallen asleep, or is that unlikely?

Just possibly a medical problem?

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Thu 12 Apr 2018 15:54

Time Limit for being cautioned - KA21

Well I was speculating the same thing.

At the time it just made sense thatbthis is what happened because I came from work. But what I remember regaining consciousness after Ive hit the bus stop.

I have been advised to contact my GP for further investigations.

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Thu 12 Apr 2018 16:25

Time Limit for being cautioned - galileo

Well I was speculating the same thing.

At the time it just made sense thatbthis is what happened because I came from work. But what I remember regaining consciousness after Ive hit the bus stop.

I have been advised to contact my GP for further investigations.

Eldest stepson had a brief blackout/collapse at work, was advised to see his GP, because this was recorded he was unable to apply for HGV provisional licence. (This was some years ago, his car licence was not affected)

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